All The Crap that GAW Has Been Doing [CENSORING INFORMATION AND LYING]

[barabbas]

That tells me they are rather satisfied customers. Not only that: Satisfied customers ready and willing to follow Garza and his projects by bringing in more money to invest. And yet, at this point, with the price of PayCoin in the gutter, they still, massively, support and believe in anything Garza says... ALL of them, not just a few, not even just a majority but ALL of them... while the only ones describing scam in all shorts of speculative ways, are just a half dozen guys who, by their own admission, never bought anything from GAW nor invested in Paycoin.

Lots more than half a dozen guys. Gethashing shows a lot of long time members and investors who were banned or shadow banned for asking questions and showing displeasure at hashtalk.

http://forum.gethashing.com/t/xpy-paycoin-discussion/90

I just took a look at that link you posted: NOT A SINGLE POST, not one, claiming it is a scam (GAW). Not a single one, not one, "exposing" unfulfilled promises regarding delivery of hardware. Not a single post, not one complaining about small payouts of hashlets. Not one. And those are supposed to be guys banned or shadowbanned of whatever you want to call it, from the main.

Again, it seems to me like the best possible endorsement of GAW's activities... not to mention full support for PayCoin.

But please, everyone comes here to BTCT, everyone in crypto. Why don't you start a list of people that can prove they have had wronged deals with GAW?

That way we could count them in exact numbers... and uh, ah, the ones, no matter how vocal, who only have theories about scams, well those do not count for now, ok?

[barabbas]

Sorry but no, only about half a dozen people, all of them self-confessed not investors in GAW, either on the hardware, hashlets or Paycoin sides, post here unsubstantiated theories... when not outright falsehoods, like the pretended SEC investigation "reported by a news site".

So the "news site" is one of the "half a dozen people" you're talking about?

Since you admit that multiple websites are accusing GAW of being a scam, are you saying that the "half a dozen people" all have their own websites?

Or are you just full of shit?

That must be a hard case of wishful thinking, because I haven't stated such a thing... NOR actually exist "multiple websites" of any kind that have intended such purpose. Only a pretended "news site" -your definition, and none else, of course- has published a clumsy, obviously fake "report" about the "SEC investigation". Puerile to the point it wouldn't pass the scrutiny of a 5 year old kid... which seems to me it's about your mental age.

[runpaint]

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113249/altcoins-dropping-off-coin-swap-in-boycott-against-gaw-miners

[rokkyroad]

Sorry but no, only about half a dozen people, all of them self-confessed not investors in GAW, either on the hardware, hashlets or Paycoin sides, post here unsubstantiated theories... when not outright falsehoods, like the pretended SEC investigation "reported by a news site". Obviously you do not know what a "news site" even looks like otherwise you would have already know from miles away that that site is nothing but the opposite of "news" AND that the "report" about the pretended "SEC investigation" was a total, fabricated falsehood. Even a pre-schooler would have identified both. Clearly.

And no, the "followers" continue following Garza, not complaining about promises not kept ... or hardware not delivered. Massively.

Trying to build a theory on falsehoods, as you did in this most recent post, not only doesn't work but actually destroys any semblance of credibility you may have attained with your orderly, though unreasonable, conspiracy theory of earlier.

Sorry, much less of a case, even.

AND I am far, far from sure that it is not an elaborate scam, ALL or at least the PayCoin part of it. It could very well be, I don't know. And, as stated above several times, the reason I don't know is because hundreds, if not thousands would have already come forward to protest unfulfilled promises. NONE -invested, that is- has done so. Only a total of about half a dozen -you can count them, including yourself- have done so. AND none of them, by thjeir own admission, has ever done ANY business at all with GAW.

I know it sucks to see an investment doing badly(I still have hashstakers that I will most likely take a bath on). Hang in there bud miracles happen.

You are correct. Lots of theories and conjecture going on but Gaw supplied the ammo.  

[DaveWave]

Hey barabbas,

If you cashed out today how much money will you have made from the wonderful GAW?

[barabbas]

Sorry but no, only about half a dozen people, all of them self-confessed not investors in GAW, either on the hardware, hashlets or Paycoin sides, post here unsubstantiated theories... when not outright falsehoods, like the pretended SEC investigation "reported by a news site". Obviously you do not know what a "news site" even looks like otherwise you would have already know from miles away that that site is nothing but the opposite of "news" AND that the "report" about the pretended "SEC investigation" was a total, fabricated falsehood. Even a pre-schooler would have identified both. Clearly.

And no, the "followers" continue following Garza, not complaining about promises not kept ... or hardware not delivered. Massively.

Trying to build a theory on falsehoods, as you did in this most recent post, not only doesn't work but actually destroys any semblance of credibility you may have attained with your orderly, though unreasonable, conspiracy theory of earlier.

Sorry, much less of a case, even.

AND I am far, far from sure that it is not an elaborate scam, ALL or at least the PayCoin part of it. It could very well be, I don't know. And, as stated above several times, the reason I don't know is because hundreds, if not thousands would have already come forward to protest unfulfilled promises. NONE -invested, that is- has done so. Only a total of about half a dozen -you can count them, including yourself- have done so. AND none of them, by thjeir own admission, has ever done ANY business at all with GAW.

I know it sucks to see an investment doing badly(I still have hashstakers that I will most likely take a bath on). Hang in there bud miracles happen.

You are correct. Lots of theories and conjecture going on but Gaw supplied the ammo.  

Well, these days -months actually, even years- that is the norm (to see an investment doing badly), not the exception. That is not the point though.

And yes, Gaw supplied plenty of ammo with Garza being an obvious big mouth and with a launch plagued by significant problems, some of which should have been foreseen and corrected, no one is arguing that. What is in discussion though is if it was a scam. If indeed it IS a scam. And, as "charged" here, the continuation of a series of scams in a ponzi scheme.

So far those "charges" remain being pure baseless speculation and attempted by one a handful, less than half a dozen, inexplicably vocal and highly motivated individuals, none of which, by their own admission, having ANY financial interest whatsoever in either GAW or PayCoin.

[barabbas]

Hey barabbas,

If you cashed out today how much money will you have made from the wonderful GAW?

Since you seem so interested, in spite of the fact that I have already told you my investment in XPY is very modest and I have traded, for profit, a few times already, I guess you would be interested in specifics. OK, my total investment is 2.5 BTC approximately. At the moment, after those trades I mentioned before, I own 170 XPY.

I hope this knowledge brings you a lot of satisfaction, which would be as inexplicable as your very vocal crusade against a project in which you have no financial interest whatsoever, as per your own words.

Anything to make you happy...

[DaveWave]

Hey barabbas,

If you cashed out today how much money will you have made from the wonderful GAW?

Since you seem so interested, in spite of the fact that I have already told you my investment in XPY is very modest and I have traded, for profit, a few times already, I guess you would be interested in specifics. OK, my total investment is 2.5 BTC approximately. At the moment, after those trades I mentioned before, I own 170 XPY.

I hope this knowledge brings you a lot of satisfaction, which would be as inexplicable as your very vocal crusade against a project in which you have no financial interest whatsoever, as per your own words.

Anything to make you happy...

So currently about 40% down, I guess you need to see .015 to break even. Do you really think it will get there?

As you say, I have no financial interest in paycoin at all. A friend tried to convince me it was going to be huge, but the pre-mine was enough for me to smell a rat so I held back. He kept on telling me how this was going to change the world with wall street investment, credit card payments etc etc. I'm enjoying ridiculing his judgement at the moment but he continues to remain absolutely convinced that this is the best thing ever to happen and what a great investment it is. Can't even entertain the possibility that this is a scam. Sounds a bit vindictive but he really needs to wake up and smell the coffee as while he's lost a year's savings on this his wife is out working supporting them both.

So yes, I don't have a financial interest, but I do have an interest.

[rokkyroad]

What is in discussion though is if it was a scam. If indeed it IS a scam. And, as "charged" here, the continuation of a series of scams in a ponzi scheme.

I've followed the whole process closely since I do have significant funds involved. Believe me when I say how unhappy I am with the way this has played out.

The lies, broken promises, avoiding questions/answers, censorship, bannings, hype, and dangling carrots from Gaw was enough for me. How can anyone say this is an above board operation defeats logic.

Please don't tell me there were no lies, broken promises, etc. Everything is well documented and available for public consumption.  

Because of this, Paycoin succeeding with merchant adoption and world wide acceptance is highly unlikely.  I think you know it and Gaw knows it. What is your exit plan?

[Crestington]

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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=937480.0

[barabbas]

What is in discussion though is if it was a scam. If indeed it IS a scam. And, as "charged" here, the continuation of a series of scams in a ponzi scheme.

I've followed the whole process closely since I do have significant funds involved. Believe me when I say how unhappy I am with the way this has played out.

The lies, broken promises, avoiding questions/answers, censorship, bannings, hype, and dangling carrots from Gaw was enough for me. How can anyone say this is an above board operation defeats logic.

Please don't tell me there were no lies, broken promises, etc. Everything is well documented and available for public consumption.  

Because of this, Paycoin succeeding with merchant adoption and world wide acceptance is highly unlikely.  I think you know it and Gaw knows it. What is your exit plan?

My exit plan, since you seem concerned about it, is, obviously, to apply for my $3400 as soon as possible (the $20 per 1 XPY guaranteed in the Honor Program). If that is indeed honored, as I expect it to be, I will make a little bit of money on the thing AND I may reinvest part of it.

I haven't followed the GAW miners story, so I don't know about lies or promises broken there. What I know because I have read some of them, is that many satisfied customers praise the service they have gotten from them over a long period of time. Censorship, bannings and hype... it goes with the territory, doesn't it? I mean I personally detest the two former ones (there's no one, anywhere, which is more against censorship in ANY instance and for ANY excuse, than me. I have long established than whoever censors -or uses a "self-moderated" thread- does so only for one reason: He has something to hide, so there are no two ways about how I feel about those...).  That said, by the sheer nature of this project, the volume of posters asking question and repeated ones at that, would make it impossible to even remotely handle it in a satisfying manner for all involved. He, Garza, has the blog which is or should be more than enough. That he posts sometimes in that hash place, is simple a concession that he should probably stop for good. As for hype, for lack of a better word, is both inevitable and -in my book- good... when it is REASONED.
Loud mouth Josh Garza hyped PayCoin way above what was reasonable and reasoned. That, together with horrendous timing -debacle of BTC price-, put him and his project in the shambles it is now... together with opening his mouth about a bunch of things that he should have kept quiet about.

All that said, with a bit of help from the BTC market -first rebound was strong but now is going back down significantly again- and if he really has the money everyone assumes he has from the sale of PayCoin, he can easily buy back his credibility by carrying out the Honor Program for months without spending a single additional penny. I believe he will be compelled to do so. It just makes good business sense for it will allow plenty of time for a potential big rebound of the price of BTC, on one side, and for a rebound of the price of PayCoin itself when he can demonstrate that he's honoring his warranty, so it makes sense to me that he will do exactly that for at leas 6 months or more. And that in crypto is decades. In which anything can happen and all shorts of things WILL indeed happen.

I also seem to recall he, Garza, admits to trade heavily in BTC. If so, he surely made quite a mint riding the rebound from mid 160s to 310 recently and may be reading the moolah to do it again soon, if he is not already accumulating BTC in this retract from 310 -already a 25% haircut-. So there are many ways for him to make a lot of money even if PayCoin itself proves to be unsuccessful... which is far from a foregone conclusion.

And we haven even talked about PayBase yet...

[DaveWave]

My exit plan, since you seem concerned about it, is, obviously, to apply for my $3400 as soon as possible (the $20 per 1 XPY guaranteed in the Honor Program). If that is indeed honored, as I expect it to be, I will make a little bit of money on the thing AND I may reinvest part of it.

So Josh sells most of the coins in circulation for an average of about $5. My estimate but I think it's close enough.

Where does he get the money to pay everyone $20 from?

If he has to rely on incoming investment to pay a monthly buyback then this is a Ponzi scheme isn't it?

[barabbas]

My exit plan, since you seem concerned about it, is, obviously, to apply for my $3400 as soon as possible (the $20 per 1 XPY guaranteed in the Honor Program). If that is indeed honored, as I expect it to be, I will make a little bit of money on the thing AND I may reinvest part of it.

So Josh sells most of the coins in circulation for an average of about $5. My estimate but I think it's close enough.

Where does he get the money to pay everyone $20 from?

If he has to rely on incoming investment to pay a monthly buyback then this is a Ponzi scheme isn't it?

Simple math: If he has sold 6 million coins at $5.00 each that's $30 million right there. 12 months at $100,000 in the Honor program will be only $1.2 million. He can be honoring the Honor program for YEARS! And presumably he also still have another 6 million XPY in reserve all for himself. Now, you tell me: Is there ANY other coin out there that can honor such guarantee FOR YEARS, years in which it can establish itself as a crypto of currency value while establishing at the same time a trading platform in direct competition with Coinbase, which is an enterprise already wildly successful? Not only there's absolutely nothing even remotely close, but this is, EVEN AS A PONZI SCHEME, way better than 99.99% of other coins out there possibly including BTC itself, ok?

Just imagine if there's no Ponzi scheme and Garza actually sold tons of miners, delivered them to satisfied customers and now sit on a gigantic mining farm, tons of his own money AND Wall Street investors ready to plunk tons of Fiat in PayCoin as it progresses and PayBase...

Sorry, I just KNOW you just don't want to even remotely imagine that...

[runpaint]

You're plainly saying that a ponzi scheme could possibly be better than Bitcoin.

Since you love scams so much, you probably deserve to lose your money.  But there might be some people who don't know any better, and you're helping to scam them when you promote this scam.  You're willing to encourage others to give their money to a scam, and you're not even benefitting.  So you've crossed the line from being a typical con victim whose own greed is used against him, and now you're a cult member.

[rokkyroad]

I wouldn't get too excited about the Honor program yet. Details have yet to be released. The only thing I heard Gaw commit himself to was the $100,000.00 *minimum* payout a month. I expect the shit to hit the fan next week as numbers start coming to light.

He has to implement something to avoid litigation so expect it to be the bare minimum. The main reason for procuring a legal team I understand.

[runpaint]

this is, EVEN AS A PONZI SCHEME, way better than 99.99% of other coins out there possibly including BTC itself

Barrabas, in the Bible, was a criminal who was released instead of Jesus, because of shills stirring up the mob.  So in your religion, Josh Garza is Jesus, falsely accused just because he was better than everyone.

Or maybe you're the shill trying to sway the mob. "Only about half a dozen" bitcointalk threads show up on a google search for barrabas shill, and they're talking about you.

[runpaint]

Stargazer, I've read more than one source saying people who were waiting on pre-ordered hardware from GAW ended up getting cloud hashlets instead.

If that's the case, it fits the ponzi model of business.  Take orders, use some of that money to buy and ship hardware, take more orders, don't ship the hardware.

[barabbas]

You're plainly saying that a ponzi scheme could possibly be better than Bitcoin.

Since you love scams so much, you probably deserve to lose your money.  But there might be some people who don't know any better, and you're helping to scam them when you promote this scam.  You're willing to encourage others to give their money to a scam, and you're not even benefitting.  So you've crossed the line from being a typical con victim whose own greed is used against him, and now you're a cult member.

Now you have crossed several lines in a very clumsy and extremely stupid attempt that naturally fails as it should: I am not helping anyone to promote anything, first and foremost. I am debating, and reasoning, why in my personal opinion, it is more likely than not that PayCoin will honor their Honor Program. All the rest of stupid nonsense, you volunteer it, associating it, to more ridicule, with some biblical references thatare as idiotic as your "argument". I am done with you, sir. Fuck the hell off.

[barabbas]

I wouldn't get too excited about the Honor program yet. Details have yet to be released. The only thing I heard Gaw commit himself to was the $100,000.00 *minimum* payout a month. I expect the shit to hit the fan next week as numbers start coming to light.

He has to implement something to avoid litigation so expect it to be the bare minimum. The main reason for procuring a legal team I understand.

I certainly don't expect more than the minimum for the time being. And it is a very wise way to cover his ass by Josh Garza for no one can accused him of not honoring his promise... while, at the same time, gaining precious time if BTC is to ever rebound and PayCoin and PayBase to gain real traction and credibility.

And all for peanuts compared with what he has already collected.

I find the strategy quite brilliant, actually. And it could very well work in the end, favorably, for all involved.

[Sir Alpha_goy]

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