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Author Topic: Bitcoin is a hackers dream  (Read 5154 times)
aq
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July 19, 2012, 05:14:47 PM
 #1

Bitcoin is really a hackers dream.

Last year, some hacker managed to steal huge funds from mybitcoin.com. How got blamed? The operator of mybitcoin.com. No one cared about the actual hacker.
This year, a hacker stole 45k from Bitcoinica. Everyone blamed the operators. The owners replaced the funds. No one cared about the actual hacker.
Now recently more funds where stolen from Bitcoinica. MtGox even knows who the hacker is, but "of course" cannot share this information. So same thing as every time, no one cares about the actual hacker. Everyone blames the operators and tries to lynch them.

Conclusion: In the Bitcoin world it is OK to steal, the blame will always be on the victim. A hacker can even use his real name and real address, and still no one cares. Blame and lawsuits are always on the victims...
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July 19, 2012, 05:19:17 PM
 #2

And your point is?

If you are stupid and leave a briefcase full of cash out in the public square, you SHOULD be blamed when it gets stolen.

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July 19, 2012, 05:20:56 PM
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This has happened with Mt. Gox last year (Gox was blamed) as well. The issue is not so much blaming the victim, as blaming the only identificable source of error (try tracking down these hackers...).
aq
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July 19, 2012, 05:24:27 PM
 #4

This has happened with Mt. Gox last year (Gox was blamed) as well. The issue is not so much blaming the victim, as blaming the only identificable source of error (try tracking down these hackers...).
This time MtGox even knows who has stolen the funds. Does that change anything? Apparently not!
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July 19, 2012, 05:25:56 PM
 #5

Psychologically, they already know they lost their money to the hacker and know they aren't getting it back. They feel better about blaming someone else (the operator) so they don't feel as stupid about it. The more they whine about the operator not doing a good enough job, the better they will feel, and start to forget about their own stupidity. Even though it's the hackers fault for all of this, everyone knows catching them and getting their BTC back is never going to realistically happen.

Tell yourself a lie long enough, and even you will start to believe it.

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aq
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July 19, 2012, 05:28:02 PM
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And your point is?

If you are stupid and leave a briefcase full of cash out in the public square, you SHOULD be blamed when it gets stolen.
It was more like this: a burglar breaks into your hours, and you call the police, they will not investigate but tell you: "you should have had 10 foot concrete walls around your house, but your where only 3 foot, so it your fault. now go to jail".
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July 19, 2012, 05:29:06 PM
 #7

This has happened with Mt. Gox last year (Gox was blamed) as well. The issue is not so much blaming the victim, as blaming the only identificable source of error (try tracking down these hackers...).
This time MtGox even knows who has stolen the funds. Does that change anything? Apparently not!


Where have they said that?
aq
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July 19, 2012, 05:31:19 PM
 #8

Psychologically, they already know they lost their money to the hacker and know they aren't getting it back. They feel better about blaming someone else (the operator) so they don't feel as stupid about it. The more they whine about the operator not doing a good enough job, the better they will feel, and start to forget about their own stupidity. Even though it's the hackers fault for all of this, everyone knows catching them and getting their BTC back is never going to realistically happen.

Tell yourself a lie long enough, and even you will start to believe it.
First I thought like you. But this time the hacker is known, according to MtGox. But still they blame and try to sue the operator, and don't care about the actual thief. So I think it is more symptomatic than it is self-deception.
aq
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July 19, 2012, 05:37:44 PM
 #9

This has happened with Mt. Gox last year (Gox was blamed) as well. The issue is not so much blaming the victim, as blaming the only identificable source of error (try tracking down these hackers...).
This time MtGox even knows who has stolen the funds. Does that change anything? Apparently not!


Where have they said that?
Regular customers have to wait weeks to get their funds out, but the hacker managed do withdraw this in an instant. So of course, MtGox knows them. And so eventually somewhere in this MtGox account thread they stated that they do, but don't share this information publicly.
bulanula
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July 19, 2012, 05:41:10 PM
 #10

Conclusion: In the Bitcoin world it is OK to steal, the blame will always be on the victim. A hacker can even use his real name and real address, and still no one cares. Blame and lawsuits are always on the victims...

Well done cpt. Obvious !

Until BTC is legal tender or recognised by the law / state as property nobody can do a damn thing about them getting stolen / hacked.

Try and tell the police somebody stole your WOW gold or monopoly money = BS.

The funny thing with Bitcoinica is : why no USD returned yet ? why no police report as hacking into computer systems is illegal ?

Smells funny to me.
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July 19, 2012, 05:44:13 PM
 #11

Bitcoin is really a hackers dream.

Last year, some hacker managed to steal huge funds from mybitcoin.com. How got blamed? The operator of mybitcoin.com. No one cared about the actual hacker.
This year, a hacker stole 45k from Bitcoinica. Everyone blamed the operators. The owners replaced the funds. No one cared about the actual hacker.
Now recently more funds where stolen from Bitcoinica. MtGox even knows who the hacker is, but "of course" cannot share this information. So same thing as every time, no one cares about the actual hacker. Everyone blames the operators and tries to lynch them.

Conclusion: In the Bitcoin world it is OK to steal, the blame will always be on the victim. A hacker can even use his real name and real address, and still no one cares. Blame and lawsuits are always on the victims...

Welcome to crypto-anarchy! The future is already here.
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July 19, 2012, 05:48:25 PM
 #12

Bitcoin is really a hackers dream.

Last year, some hacker managed to steal huge funds from mybitcoin.com. How got blamed? The operator of mybitcoin.com. No one cared about the actual hacker.
This year, a hacker stole 45k from Bitcoinica. Everyone blamed the operators. The owners replaced the funds. No one cared about the actual hacker.
Now recently more funds where stolen from Bitcoinica. MtGox even knows who the hacker is, but "of course" cannot share this information. So same thing as every time, no one cares about the actual hacker. Everyone blames the operators and tries to lynch them.

Conclusion: In the Bitcoin world it is OK to steal, the blame will always be on the victim. A hacker can even use his real name and real address, and still no one cares. Blame and lawsuits are always on the victims...

Welcome to crypto-anarchy! The future is already here.

A. If you go after the hacker... there will be 10 more in line behind him.

A. Going after the hackers protects a bad service.

B. If you go after the service provider... the next 10 hackers will be unsuccessful.

B. Going after the service provider ensures a better service is provided in the future.
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July 19, 2012, 06:43:01 PM
 #13

So are credit cards.

What fraction of carders actually get caught?

Even if the credit card customer is negligent, it's usually the bank that takes the hit, and then socializes the cost among all customers. Very rarely the it's the scammer.

With bitcoin, at least I don't have to pay for other people's negligence. And yes, if you entrust tens of thousands of dollars to an alpha-web app run by an one-man enterprise then that is also a form of negligence.

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July 19, 2012, 07:01:51 PM
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Until BTC is legal tender or recognised by the law / state as property nobody can do a damn thing about them getting stolen / hacked.


This only serves to highlight the corruption of the state. They serve only their own interests while ignoring legitimate property right claims.

This isn't a bitcoin problem, OP.
DannyHamilton
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July 19, 2012, 07:02:21 PM
 #15

Regular customers have to wait weeks to get their funds out, but the hacker managed do withdraw this in an instant. So of course, MtGox knows them. And so eventually somewhere in this MtGox account thread they stated that they do, but don't share this information publicly.
I don't follow your logic.  The hacker logged into MtGox as Bitcoinica.  MtGox allowed the instant transfer because they know who Bitcoinica is.  This doesn't mean they know who the hacker is.  I have not seen anywhere that MtGox said that they can identify the hacker.

The quality of posts has dropped to such a low level that all users who are participating in a paid signature campaign are added to my ignore list. If you'd like a copy of the list to improve your browsing experience, you can find it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973843.0 (Updated 2016-1-4)
repentance
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July 19, 2012, 07:02:50 PM
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And so eventually somewhere in this MtGox account thread they stated that they do, but don't share this information publicly.

They said they were filing a report with the police and could not publicly discuss the information they had while the matter was being investigated.  They did not say that they knew who the hacker was.  They said they knew where the transactions went.  That information may allow the hacker to be traced but it doesn't mean that MtGox is aware of their identity.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
DannyHamilton
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July 19, 2012, 07:11:40 PM
 #17

It was more like this: a burglar breaks into your hours, and you call the police, they will not investigate but tell you: "you should have had 10 foot concrete walls around your house, but your where only 3 foot, so it your fault. now go to jail".
Perhaps more like this:
You use a bank that is not insured to deposit your money.  You believe that the bank is taking reasonable security precautions. They store all deposits in a vault that requires a key that is only held by the bank owner.  The bank owner then gets careless and makes multiple copies of the key to the vault.  The bank announces that it will be closing its doors and sends all its employees home.  Then the bank owner leaves the copies of the vault key in public places all over town attached to a note that says "bank vault key" and has the address of the bank.  A criminal who knows that there is no security guarding the bank finds one of the copies of the key.  He walks in the unlocked front door when nobody is looking. He uses the key, takes the money out of the vault, and leaves. He leaves behind no evidence.

Obviously you are upset that a criminal took your money from the vault before the bank managed to return your deposit to you, but why wouldn't you blame the bank owner for leaving the key all over town and the money unsecured?

The quality of posts has dropped to such a low level that all users who are participating in a paid signature campaign are added to my ignore list. If you'd like a copy of the list to improve your browsing experience, you can find it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973843.0 (Updated 2016-1-4)
aq
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July 19, 2012, 07:14:26 PM
 #18

And so eventually somewhere in this MtGox account thread they stated that they do, but don't share this information publicly.

They said they were filing a report with the police and could not publicly discuss the information they had while the matter was being investigated.  They did not say that they knew who the hacker was.  They said they knew where the transactions went.  That information may allow the hacker to be traced but it doesn't mean that MtGox is aware of their identity.
Wow, I wasn't aware that you can withdraw 40kBTC and 40kUSD while having an anonymous account at MtGox. The same MtGox that is known for their extensively KYC and AML... Maybe you know something that we dont?
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July 19, 2012, 07:20:13 PM
 #19

And so eventually somewhere in this MtGox account thread they stated that they do, but don't share this information publicly.

They said they were filing a report with the police and could not publicly discuss the information they had while the matter was being investigated.  They did not say that they knew who the hacker was.  They said they knew where the transactions went.  That information may allow the hacker to be traced but it doesn't mean that MtGox is aware of their identity.
Wow, I wasn't aware that you can withdraw 40kBTC and 40kUSD while having an anonymous account at MtGox. The same MtGox that is known for their extensively KYC and AML... Maybe you know something that we dont?
Read DannyHamilton's comment 3 or 4 posts above yours. Obviously Bitcoinica's account was AML verified/trusted, so withdrawals of huge amounts would be possible. How it happened instantly, I don't know.

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aq
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July 19, 2012, 07:31:44 PM
 #20

...

As I said we know how and where the USD moved, so yes.

And about the Bitcoins, it would have been easy for MtGox to tell us the transaction ID, but they choose to astonish some Japanese police officer with such information, IF they even filed that report.
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