Hollowman338
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February 19, 2015, 11:57:05 PM |
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But does he like how the NXT initially was distributed?
Are you okay with people in 2010 buying BTC for cents? I know you are, so what's your problem?  Same early adopter principle. Those who found out about NXT earlier were rewarded. Just like BTC. Not really, in BTC early days, no one knew cryptocurrency would work. Also, NXT distribution is beyond insane, even today, 15 people hold 80% of all NXT. Bitcoin distribution today is much more fair. BULLSHIT! Prove it or walk. Nxtblocks.info says you're completely full of shit. |
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jones_
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February 20, 2015, 12:05:21 AM |
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But does he like how the NXT initially was distributed?
Are you okay with people in 2010 buying BTC for cents? I know you are, so what's your problem? Same early adopter principle. Those who found out about NXT earlier were rewarded. Just like BTC. Not really, in BTC early days, no one knew cryptocurrency would work. Also, NXT distribution is beyond insane, even today, 15 people hold 80% of all NXT. Bitcoin distribution today is much more fair. BULLSHIT! Prove it or walk. Nxtblocks.info says you're completely full of shit. He was only off by an order of magnitude, as nxtblock.info tells us, 76% of the nxt is held by 144 different accounts. On top of this there are at least 20 of these accounts which are owned by many different people, like SuperNet, Nxt community funds stash, or Exchanges like Bter. |
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funkenstein
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Khazad ai-menu!
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February 20, 2015, 02:30:01 PM |
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But does he like how the NXT initially was distributed?
Are you okay with people in 2010 buying BTC for cents? I know you are, so what's your problem? Same early adopter principle. Those who found out about NXT earlier were rewarded. Just like BTC. Not really, in BTC early days, no one knew cryptocurrency would work. Also, NXT distribution is beyond insane, even today, 15 people hold 80% of all NXT. Bitcoin distribution today is much more fair. BULLSHIT! Prove it or walk. Nxtblocks.info says you're completely full of shit. He was only off by an order of magnitude, as nxtblock.info tells us, 76% of the nxt is held by 144 different accounts. On top of this there are at least 20 of these accounts which are owned by many different people, like SuperNet, Nxt community funds stash, or Exchanges like Bter. Your insistence that the number of accounts has anything to do with the number of people controlling them suggests that you have something to hide. |
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kokojie
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February 20, 2015, 02:38:24 PM |
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But does he like how the NXT initially was distributed?
Are you okay with people in 2010 buying BTC for cents? I know you are, so what's your problem? Same early adopter principle. Those who found out about NXT earlier were rewarded. Just like BTC. Not really, in BTC early days, no one knew cryptocurrency would work. Also, NXT distribution is beyond insane, even today, 15 people hold 80% of all NXT. Bitcoin distribution today is much more fair. BULLSHIT! Prove it or walk. Nxtblocks.info says you're completely full of shit. He was only off by an order of magnitude, as nxtblock.info tells us, 76% of the nxt is held by 144 different accounts. On top of this there are at least 20 of these accounts which are owned by many different people, like SuperNet, Nxt community funds stash, or Exchanges like Bter. oh yes, 144 accounts own 76% of all nxt, that sounds much better? and I'm sure you could guarantee all these accounts are all unique, surely it's not possible for one person to own multiple accounts in nxt? |
btc: 15sFnThw58hiGHYXyUAasgfauifTEB1ZF6
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funkenstein
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Khazad ai-menu!
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February 20, 2015, 02:42:57 PM |
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My point was, there is 25.15 BTC worth of incentive for double spend avoiding security in 10 minutes of confirmation on bitcoin. For NXT, it looks like there is jack shit in 10 minutes.
Can you make a better estimate?
You just brought up the main problem with virtual assets located on a block chain and why those projects seem to keep imploding or not really going anywhere. The security of the chain only accounts for the monetary value of the coins. When you make the coins also represent assets, PoW miners aren't receiving a cut of that, so there's no hash power security increase on their end. You then end up with high incentive to attack, and low incentive to defend. For PoS assets, they're piggybacking on top of the system like PoW, the only difference is that PoS attacks are always far more catastrophic in the long term since coin ownership is network control. Then you have the fact that "ownership" is all defined by the legal system, and no legal system recognizes the authority of a block chain to determine who owns what when tied to assets in the real world. Hmm.. that is a very interesting point indeed which I hadn't considered, which is more general than talking about any specific chain. Coloured coin users beware. However, one can at least estimate security for assets sitting on the BTC block chain, using the simple formula of block reward = maximum amount you should trust to a single confirmation. Miners don't even know that your one satoshi transfer with 1 millie fee was actually the controlling interest in a multithousand coin company. If the recipient doesn't know you or trust you, they will likely wait a lot of confirmations before acting on the transfer. |
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LiQio
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February 20, 2015, 03:13:28 PM |
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But does he like how the NXT initially was distributed?
Are you okay with people in 2010 buying BTC for cents? I know you are, so what's your problem? Same early adopter principle. Those who found out about NXT earlier were rewarded. Just like BTC. Not really, in BTC early days, no one knew cryptocurrency would work. Also, NXT distribution is beyond insane, even today, 15 people hold 80% of all NXT. Bitcoin distribution today is much more fair. BULLSHIT! Prove it or walk. Nxtblocks.info says you're completely full of shit. He was only off by an order of magnitude, as nxtblock.info tells us, 76% of the nxt is held by 144 different accounts. On top of this there are at least 20 of these accounts which are owned by many different people, like SuperNet, Nxt community funds stash, or Exchanges like Bter. oh yes, 144 accounts own 76% of all nxt, that sounds much better? and I'm sure you could guarantee all these accounts are all unique, surely it's not possible for one person to own multiple accounts in nxt? Nothing about current distribution can be guaranteed: not for NXT not for Bitcoin not for any other coin. All we can do is some crawling, collecting clues and evidences and then listen to our gut feeling  |
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Daedelus
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February 20, 2015, 05:28:29 PM |
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Yawn... even EvilDave is getting of going over the same ground over and over  |
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jones_
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February 20, 2015, 05:51:46 PM |
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But does he like how the NXT initially was distributed?
Are you okay with people in 2010 buying BTC for cents? I know you are, so what's your problem? Same early adopter principle. Those who found out about NXT earlier were rewarded. Just like BTC. Not really, in BTC early days, no one knew cryptocurrency would work. Also, NXT distribution is beyond insane, even today, 15 people hold 80% of all NXT. Bitcoin distribution today is much more fair. BULLSHIT! Prove it or walk. Nxtblocks.info says you're completely full of shit. He was only off by an order of magnitude, as nxtblock.info tells us, 76% of the nxt is held by 144 different accounts. On top of this there are at least 20 of these accounts which are owned by many different people, like SuperNet, Nxt community funds stash, or Exchanges like Bter. Your insistence that the number of accounts has anything to do with the number of people controlling them suggests that you have something to hide. Sigh, I know I'd meet these people. And I do have something to hide, I own 12 different nxt accounts, but who knows which ones.  If you don't like the 'distribution', then happily ignore nxt, I prefer to build things |
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picolo
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February 20, 2015, 07:02:10 PM |
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NXT has many qualities but Erik V is always saying Bitcoin is so superior so he is just talking about the alt he dislikes less |
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nzminer
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February 20, 2015, 07:59:57 PM |
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NXT has many qualities but Erik V is always saying Bitcoin is so superior so he is just talking about the alt he dislikes less LOL, i think it could be more of a pride thing possibly, especially the thought of going back on his words about how amazing BTC was. He knows NXT is better, just doesnt like to fully admit it. Lets face it, what is better about BTC than NXT? 10min conformation time? huge energy consumpton for mining the stuff and keeping the network alive? No asset exchange? I cant think of one thing that BTC can do better than NXT (or most other alts for that matter!) lol |
NEM, THE SECURE, SCALABLE BLOCKCHAIN [NEM.IO] [T.ME/NEMRED]
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box0211
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March 01, 2015, 05:21:46 AM |
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if your in it just to make money by buying the coins. forget nxt as you'll be more worried about distribution and constantly watching it. i tend to go for nxt because of the innovative features it has right now compared to other cryptos. the platform is solid and as a dev building on top of this is getting ahead of the curve... we can all wait for ehtereum / counterparty / coinprism to get these similar feature sets, but until then i'll just work with what works currently.
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inBitweTrust
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March 01, 2015, 02:37:14 PM |
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The link is not dead. Th point of my post was to show that bitcoin has plenty of decentralized exchanges and to disprove the FUD that gets repeated by NxT fans. |
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Daedelus
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March 01, 2015, 02:41:13 PM |
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Th point of my post was to show that bitcoin has plenty of decentralized exchanges and to disprove the FUD that gets repeated by NxT fans. You did a poor job of making this point. You can set up as many websites as you wish but if their is nothing to download or not order book/volume when you do download, then their value is close to zero. It is clear Nxt is a superior decentralized exchange platform than Bitcoin in terms of volume, choice, traded assets, speed and convenience. While BTC having "no exchange" isn't technically true, having "no useful exchange" is undisputably so. |
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inBitweTrust
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March 01, 2015, 02:45:26 PM |
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It is a fact that Bitcoin has more flexibility and volume to trade assets in a decentralized manner. This is one you have already conceded to because of Bitcoin can be used to invest in any NxT asset through http://www.secureae.com/ and all the other decentralized exchanges like - https://blockscan.com/tx which don't work with NxT. The bottom line is I can buy more assets with Bitcoin right now than NxT and I have more options and choice to spend my bitcoins than NxT. Thus for the end user it is more convenient to use Bitcoin over Nxt to buy and sell assets in a decentralized manner(and this isn't even addressing the wealth of assets that can be purchased from centralized exchanges with Bitcoin) P.S... Many of those "NxT" assets are dangerous scams, pump and dump securities, and extremely risky speculative investments as well. I would suggest people avoid investing in them even if they use Bitcoin to do so. |
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Daedelus
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March 01, 2015, 03:00:53 PM
Last edit: March 01, 2015, 03:14:39 PM by Daedelus |
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It is a fact that Bitcoin has more flexibility and volume to trade assets in a decentralized manner. This is one you have already conceded to because of Bitcoin can be used to invest in any NxT asset through http://www.secureae.com/ and all the other decentralized exchanges like - https://blockscan.com/tx which don't work with NxT. You realize BTC is converted to Nxt in secureae to make the purchases? If you want to take that loose, indirect definition then fiat has a decentralized exchange as it can be converted to BTC that is converted to Nxt (or fiat to Nxt directly on CCEDK.com) to buy assets on Nxt AE. Nxt can be converted to BTC so blockscan.com is as valid an exchange as secureae is for BTC  So your definition dilution has lead us to a useless situation where all crytpos and all fiat and gold/oil/pigs (as they are convertible to fiat) all have a decentralized exchange in Nxt's secureae/asset exchange. You're reaching Nxt has it's own decentralized exchange that is widely used and has no other peer that is close to it right now. You can say BTC can be converted to Nxt so it has a good decentralized exchange in AE too if you want (you call it flexibility) but every other crypto can make this claim and has the same flexibility. All the BTC based decentralized exchanges you listed are either unlaunched, alpha or no volume as they concentrate on one asset only that few people care about. And you'll need a different set of software (or at least different account) for each asset you want to trade. Again, Nxt has had $300,000 worth of decentralized trades in the last 30 days and 42 different assets have been trading in the last 24 hours >> http://nxtreporting.com/assetcap.phpAll from a single, integrated exchange accessible from one wallet interface. I think you might be in a minority of you still contend BTC does decentralized exchange better than Nxt (and that is without even mentioning multigateway.com) Who comes close to this right now? |
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inBitweTrust
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March 01, 2015, 03:14:39 PM |
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10min conformation time?
I purchase things all the time with bitcoin and they get "confirmed" in a second. The emphasis on blockchain confirmation time is exaggerated and reflects an inadequate understanding of the security tradeoffs between PoS and PoW and a lower blockchain confirmation average. In the real world the only thing that matters anyways is a 1 second approval or confirmation time for processing transactions for in person payments which can already be accomplished with payment processors or in decentralized ways like querying the mempool with tools like https://mycelium.com/lt/help.html or presigned transactions with nlocktime - https://greenaddress.it/en/In the future bitcoin will have added methods for verifying and confirming transactions with sidechains and interchannel payments - http://impulse.isThe reality is bitcoin has already solved this problem and is developing more solutions for users to choose from everyday. huge energy consumpton for mining the stuff and keeping the network alive?
That is the price of security but those costs will slowly be replaced by Tx fees in time as the block reward decreases and security is paid with volume of Tx fees. This is why we are going to push forward with a hard fork and increase the block size limit. Eventually, Tx fees be the greater source of revenue for security than electricity. |
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inBitweTrust
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March 01, 2015, 03:19:13 PM
Last edit: March 01, 2015, 03:32:49 PM by inBitweTrust |
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You realize BTC is converted to Nxt in secureae to make the purchases? If you want to take that loose, indirect definition then fiat has a decentralized exchange as it can be converted to BTC that is converted to Nxt (or fiat to Nxt directly on CCEDK.com) to buy assets on Nxt AE. Nxt can be converted to BTC so blockscan.com is as valid an exchange as secureae is for BTC It is a fact that USD fiat is superior to Bitcoin or any crypto currency with acceptance and ease of use at this moment. You can say BTC can be converted to Nxt so it has a good decentralized exchange in AE too if you want (you call it flexibility) but every other crypto can make this claim and has the same flexibility.
This is false as not every other crypto is available to be used on the quantity of exchanges I listed. The bottom line is that Bitcoin allows me to buy the most amount of assets with the greatest amount or ease in the quickest manner vs any other cryptocurrency including NxT. This is a fact that you have yet to refute. With Bitcoin I can buy all Nxt Assets , Counterparty assets, colored coin assets, and Mastercoin assets and any other currency or asset directly.(If BTC is exchanged for NxT without the client knowing it is inconsequential because the question remains what currency is superior to buying assets online right now for the end user) With NxT you are trapped within the NxT ecosystem and with Bitcoin you can spend your currency in an order of magnitude more merchants. P.S.... The ease of use to invest if the multitude of NxT asset scams is not something I recommend or am advocating. I am simply clarifying that if you were foolish enough to invest in those assets you could do so easily with bitcoin and do not need to directly buy any NxT. People should stay away from most these "digital assets" regardless of what marketplace they come from. |
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Daedelus
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March 01, 2015, 03:29:47 PM |
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So you allow BTC > NXT, or BTC > XCP as giving you access to all the market assets. But Nxt has to stay 'trapped' because you won't accept Nxt > BTC, or Nxt > XCP or even Nxt > [Hidden BTC] > any other crypto to buy assets? But you will allow the same when talking about BTC. Is this hypocrisy or just being disingenuous? Nothing needs refuting. If crypto x has a BTC pair, then there is no reason you can't claim it has all the options available to it as BTC does so your definition makes the whole discussion pointless. Any claim for one crypto can be made for all. BTC has nothing in the same category as Nxt's Asset Exchange, except maybe Nxt's Asset Exchange If you want to make Bitcoin appear great by piggy backing on the backs of the alts it hates so much, be my guest. But you know this isn't what NZMiner meant when he said BTC had no decentralized exchange. It doesn't. Only in the sense that "BTC can be exchanged for everything so has access to every asset" you are trying on might it stick. But any crypto with a BTC pair can make the same claim. The fact is Nxt AE is in a category of it's own right now, even supported by BTC when it is piggy backing on top of it. |
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