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Author Topic: Proposal 1:10 split, every block reward halves.  (Read 1702 times)
Transisto
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July 20, 2012, 06:58:50 PM
 #1

The "commonly" perceived meaning of the currency unit name “Bitcoin” does not lead itself to being widely used if it’s value compared to other currencies end up being X orders of magnitude higher.

When not used in the context of computing, the "Bit and Coin" components taken apart will commonly refer and be perceived as : “a small unit” + “with a value of no more than 1$.”

Definitions (Wikionary) :

“Bit” Something small
•  A small amount of something.
  There were bits of paper all over the floor.
  Does your leg still hurt? / Just a bit now.
  I have done my bit, I expect you to do yours.


•  Specifically, a small amount of time.
  I'll be there in a bit, I need to take care of something first.
  He was here just a bit ago, but it looks like he's stepped out.

 
“Coin” : Money in the form of a small round disk, (small nominal value of generally no more than 1$)
•  (money) A piece of currency, usually metallic and in the shape of a disc, but sometimes polygonal, or with a hole in the middle.
•  A token used in a special establishment like a casino (also called a chip).


I suggest we change the way bitcoins amounts are displayed to reflect a 1:10 split, stating with the official client, to show BTCs as multiple of 10x to be incremented at every block reward halves.


This would be a major change requiring a lots of work from the whole dev community but I think of it as an inevitable change that would have immense benefits to long term adoption of Bitcoin.  If this is not to be generally accepted for 2012-2013 halve, it may be hard to explain why is hasn't always been the case. The only alternative I can think of is a 1:100 split every two 4 years cycles.

Thanks for taking the perspective of a non-computer literate person when evaluating this proposal.
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July 20, 2012, 07:03:04 PM
 #2

Technically it's not that hard to do, but I don't think it's a problem that needs to be solved, and it creates a whole bunch of new problems like having to compare split history to make sense of past discussions.

It's much easier for people to use "bitcents", "millibtc", and "microbtc" if and when the need arises.

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July 20, 2012, 07:13:33 PM
 #3

Yes, this is bad for bitcoin users. They don't want the meaning of a bitcoin to change every 4 years.

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July 20, 2012, 07:47:52 PM
 #4

Yes, this is bad for bitcoin users. They don't want the meaning of a bitcoin to change every 4 years.
replace satoshi with bitcoin so 1 satoshi = 100 000 000 bitcoin.
And have all current BTC be 108 more.

At this point I should just shut up ...
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July 20, 2012, 08:30:48 PM
 #5

“with a value of no more than 1$.”

hm. The problem that strikes me here is: Why would you want to tie Bitcoin denominations to USD? In the future, Bitcoins could be a lot more stable than hyperinflationary fiat.

I wish our site's customer balances weren't tied to USD. There are reasons for it... but I think the beauty of Bitcoin is that it's completely independent of that. I guess you could tie the denominations to be "less than 1 $N" where $N is the average of a basket of currencies, but then who decides what currencies are included? And why choose USD instead of Euros or something else...?

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July 20, 2012, 09:53:45 PM
 #6

Certainly, when a Bitcoin is worth $10,000, people will be using fractions of a coin in normal affairs. It's annoying/awkward for people to deal in fractions, for sure.

But, I don't think the answer is to change the meaning of what a Bitcoin is. Rather, a better solution is for the marketplace to give arbitrary names to the smaller notational units. We already see this happening. 1/1000 of a coin is a milibit, and the smallest unit is endearingly called a Satoshi. This is an organic, market-based process by which a naming standard will be arrived at spontaneously over time.

Indeed, at some point in the future the Starbucks barrista will tell us our coffee costs 23.20 millibits and we'll think nothing of it.
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July 20, 2012, 10:11:35 PM
 #7

Thank for raising this issue.  It is good to have some discussion on issues like this, and the magnitude of currency is an interesting topic.

USD might be many to the BTC, but other currencies are the other way around.  Yen is even more and pre-euro, Italian lira were much smaller (without going to Turkish lire (they were 100,000 to the USD at one stage).

It is also worth noting that among  that different currencies, some have "cents" and others do not (like yen).  Pre decimal, the English also had a sub penny denomination.  In the movie "In Time", the currency ranged from seconds to decades (and longer), and despite some of the poorly put together aspects, the inhabitants managed to work out the relative value of seconds versus years.

Personally, I would be against such a large structural change in valuation at block reward halving.
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July 21, 2012, 01:27:16 AM
 #8

We are already seeing millibits (mBTCs) being used as the unit more and more.

e.g., http://Bitzino.com and http://www.Ogrr.com both use mBTC exclusively.    Others will follow.

One millibit today (0.001 BTC) is nearly the equivalent of a U.S. penny.

At some point, the clients can start displaying mBTCs as well.

Technically, there is no such thing as a BTC.  At the protocol level, there are only Satoshis, worth 0.00000001 BTC each.

 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MilliBit
 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Units

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July 21, 2012, 01:41:10 AM
 #9


At some point, the clients can start displaying mBTCs as well.


The Satoshi Client already lets you choose the Unit in which to display amounts Wink

Stephen Gornick
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July 21, 2012, 01:54:52 AM
 #10


At some point, the clients can start displaying mBTCs as well.


The Satoshi Client already lets you choose the Unit in which to display amounts Wink

Ah, so it does.

And makes me fee much more happy about my balance too (though, I realize, it is just a mental trick)

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July 22, 2012, 05:19:05 AM
 #11

We are already seeing millibits (mBTCs) being used as the unit more and more.

e.g., http://Bitzino.com and http://www.Ogrr.com both use mBTC exclusively.    Others will follow.

Seals with Clubs also uses mBTC (referred to as "chips").

I know this because Tyler knows this.
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July 22, 2012, 05:27:39 AM
 #12

“Coin” : Money in the form of a small round disk, (small nominal value of generally no more than 1$)

humorous to me, because Australia has had $2 coins since 1988.
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July 22, 2012, 09:30:03 AM
 #13

But, I don't think the answer is to change the meaning of what a Bitcoin is. Rather, a better solution is for the marketplace to give arbitrary names to the smaller notational units. We already see this happening. 1/1000 of a coin is a milibit, and the smallest unit is endearingly called a Satoshi. This is an organic, market-based process by which a naming standard will be arrived at spontaneously over time.

Indeed, at some point in the future the Starbucks barrista will tell us our coffee costs 23.20 millibits and we'll think nothing of it.
There's already precident for this: 1/1000 of a dollar is a mill.

Since people tend to gravitate towards shorter words instead of longer words my guess is "mill" and "mike" would be more commonly used than their three syllable equivalents.
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July 24, 2012, 01:22:57 PM
 #14

I think the existing method is just fine.

1 bit is equal to 100,000,000 satoshi

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July 25, 2012, 07:21:14 PM
 #15

I was thinking the same thing. When 1 Bitcoin is $100 people may become intimidated that they have to spend SO much just to get one Bitcoin.

But if we move from the millibitcoin to the use of the term "mill" or "mili", then it will be like saying "cent" which is 1/100th of a dollar. You don't say centdollars or c$.

With Bitcoin at $100, if you had one it would be worth 1000 m or 10m per dollar.

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July 25, 2012, 08:48:28 PM
 #16

The placement of the decimal is arbitrary.  Any place where you would want to place it will be just as arbitrary.  Except that if we get in the habit of changing it a lot, it becomes difficult (or impossible) to do understand value over time (which is why we allow governments to inflate currency).

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July 26, 2012, 09:11:28 PM
 #17

The placement of the decimal is arbitrary.  Any place where you would want to place it will be just as arbitrary.  Except that if we get in the habit of changing it a lot, it becomes difficult (or impossible) to do understand value over time (which is why we allow governments to inflate currency).

When you spend a USD on something at the door do you think to yourself every time "I wonder what the CAD exchange of this USD is right now". I know I don't.

What we need to do is start training ourselves into thinking... 1btc is = to a haircut, or a shave, or a movie ticket, or a movie download, and not to the current exchange rate of some country currency.

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July 27, 2012, 03:19:24 AM
 #18

When you spend a USD on something at the door do you think to yourself every time "I wonder what the CAD exchange of this USD is right now". I know I don't.

You do if the price shown is in Canadian dollars.  Well, you don't have to but to know whether or not you are getting a fair price you want to know the exchange rate.

What we need to do is start training ourselves into thinking... 1btc is = to a haircut, or a shave, or a movie ticket, or a movie download, and not to the current exchange rate of some country currency.

If the supply of bitcoins was variable and targeted to provide price stability then you might be able to  do that.   But Bitcoin's supply is fixed.  So prices in terms of BTCs will rise and fall based on a number of factors.  With electronic systems, comparing prices, even when they are constantly changing, is not much of a big deal.  That's why you'll often see a price shown in both BTCs and USDs, where either may change minute-to-minute based on various factors.

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