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Author Topic: 7% per week? Nothing to see here, just send your bitcoins and move along...  (Read 1292 times)
StarfishPrime
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July 21, 2012, 06:30:03 PM
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Some here on the forums (including a few who should be old enough to know better) seem to think that certain people/funds offering up to 7%/week for "undisclosed investment activity" is not particularly concerning... Really?

Just suppose for a moment, hypothetically of course, that someone had an incentive to undermine the widespread adoption of bitcoin, while simultaneously defunding a significant number of participants/early adopters and discrediting the entire concept, and was able to recruit a significant portion of the community to assist in that goal....

How would a project like that look?





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July 21, 2012, 06:59:16 PM
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Atlas, is that you?

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July 21, 2012, 07:06:17 PM
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Lets say for the sake of argument that a hypothetical investment program offering 7% is just some ponzi HYIP scam.  How does the discredit Bitcoin?  Do USD based HYIP scams discredit the dollar?

Bitcoin is a medium of exchange.  If someone falls victim to a Ponzi it isn't the fault of the medium of exchange.
StarfishPrime
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July 21, 2012, 07:21:20 PM
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Lets say for the sake of argument that a hypothetical investment program offering 7% is just some ponzi HYIP scam.  How does the discredit Bitcoin?  Do USD based HYIP scams discredit the dollar?

Bitcoin is a medium of exchange.  If someone falls victim to a Ponzi it isn't the fault of the medium of exchange.

Try telling that to the nice people of Iceland who have actually been considering adopting the Canadian Dollar:

"...It's easier to use Disney Dollars in 2012 than the Icelandic Krona"

And the Icelandic economy is actually orders of magnitude larger than bitcoin will be anytime soon.

Paul Watson's Sea Shepherd Conservation Society now accepting BTC: http://www.seashepherd.org.au/support-us/support-us.html
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July 21, 2012, 07:30:39 PM
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Lets say for the sake of argument that a hypothetical investment program offering 7% is just some ponzi HYIP scam.  How does the discredit Bitcoin?  Do USD based HYIP scams discredit the dollar?

I don't think it does, but it sure makes the bitcoiners look silly. At the drop of a hat people on this forum bitch about sinister central banks with their money press, but these same people seem pretty sanguine while con men hock all sorts of obvious fraud in their very community.

That said, I'm with you in so far that I doubt there's a deliberate campaign to discredit a fringe grey market. I just wish the enthusiasts weren't so tolerant of charlatans.
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July 21, 2012, 07:34:03 PM
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Considering, that Bitcoin is a deflationary currency, while the dollar is inflationary, it's even more unbelievable for some business to generate profit of 7% a WEEK. I can't imagine how something like that should be possible without scamming at some point.
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July 21, 2012, 08:01:23 PM
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Considering, that Bitcoin is a deflationary currency, while the dollar is inflationary, it's even more unbelievable for some business to generate profit of 7% a WEEK. I can't imagine how something like that should be possible without scamming at some point.

No, no, you should totally trust an anonymous person dealing in an anonymous online currency who claims to be able to offer you 3400% APR returns with no risk.
What could possibly go wrong?

Although, this has been discussed to death  Cheesy
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July 21, 2012, 08:14:13 PM
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Considering, that Bitcoin is a deflationary currency, while the dollar is inflationary, it's even more unbelievable for some business to generate profit of 7% a WEEK. I can't imagine how something like that should be possible without scamming at some point.

No, no, you should totally trust an anonymous person dealing in an anonymous online currency who claims to be able to offer you 3400% APR returns with no risk.
What could possibly go wrong?

Although, this has been discussed to death  Cheesy


If you cant trust a pirate ,who can you trust ? Cheesy



StarfishPrime
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July 22, 2012, 12:59:02 AM
 #9

I'd bet on a viking over a pirate any day, especially at disneyland.

This is the kind of market even the Hunt bros. could only fantasize about... Tiny market, naive players, zero traceable paper trail, absolutely no regulation, and 1000s of capitalized, naive players...

Go boys!

Paul Watson's Sea Shepherd Conservation Society now accepting BTC: http://www.seashepherd.org.au/support-us/support-us.html
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July 22, 2012, 02:16:07 AM
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But sure is fun to play.....it is like gambling on a game in vegas you have never heard of.   N
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July 23, 2012, 12:12:21 AM
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I'm willing to put some bitcoins out there to test it with at least.  We'll see what happens.  Re-invest though?  I don't think so.  I'd like my coins in my virtual pocket please.  Just my bitcoin 0.02.

GO BLUE!

GO BLUE!
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July 23, 2012, 12:36:56 AM
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Lets say for the sake of argument that a hypothetical investment program offering 7% is just some ponzi HYIP scam.  How does the discredit Bitcoin?  Do USD based HYIP scams discredit the dollar?

I don't think it does, but it sure makes the bitcoiners look silly. At the drop of a hat people on this forum bitch about sinister central banks with their money press, but these same people seem pretty sanguine while con men hock all sorts of obvious fraud in their very community.

That said, I'm with you in so far that I doubt there's a deliberate campaign to discredit a fringe grey market. I just wish the enthusiasts weren't so tolerant of charlatans.

forget about that crap. bitcoin has a defacto central bank. mtgox. while mtgox does not mint bitcoins, they still have shown that they can decide whether bitcoins are legit or not. People are still too stupid to use bitcoin to its full potential, even those that are in so far.
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July 23, 2012, 01:46:11 AM
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forget about that crap. bitcoin has a defacto central bank. mtgox. while mtgox does not mint bitcoins, they still have shown that they can decide whether bitcoins are legit or not. People are still too stupid to use bitcoin to its full potential, even those that are in so far.

Meh.  I don't think central bank means what you think it means.  I can't use dollars and be outside the influence of the Federal Reserve.  You CAN choose to never do business with MtGox.  At one point MtGox had about 90%+ of the daily exchange volume and today that is more like 65% to 70%.  That is in the trades tracked on exchanges, plenty of trades occur off exchange.
StarfishPrime
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July 24, 2012, 01:40:35 AM
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Lets say for the sake of argument that a hypothetical investment program offering 7% is just some ponzi HYIP scam.  How does the discredit Bitcoin?  Do USD based HYIP scams discredit the dollar?

I don't think it does, but it sure makes the bitcoiners look silly. At the drop of a hat people on this forum bitch about sinister central banks with their money press, but these same people seem pretty sanguine while con men hock all sorts of obvious fraud in their very community.

That said, I'm with you in so far that I doubt there's a deliberate campaign to discredit a fringe grey market. I just wish the enthusiasts weren't so tolerant of charlatans.

forget about that crap. bitcoin has a defacto central bank. mtgox. while mtgox does not mint bitcoins, they still have shown that they can decide whether bitcoins are legit or not. People are still too stupid to use bitcoin to its full potential, even those that are in so far.

Exactly. The Mt. Gox rates are currently being manipulated by a few major players. Even a cursory analysis can show this is true without a doubt. It's great if you're a trader and capitalize on it to make quick returns, but investors should have no illusion of a free market at work, the total BTC economy is just too small at this point, and the only short term way it can get larger is for bitcoin to increase in value substantially.

There are a few businesses where it might be acceptable to lose 20-30% in conversion. If you count cash with a scale instead of a bill counter, you probably don't care about sustaining ongoing trading losses to keep things on an even keel.

There's way to much of bitcoin's future riding on Mt Gox right now. If Gox gets taken down for whatever reason (several scenarios come to mind) the bitcoin credibility hit would be huge. When no single entity answers for more than 15-20% of total transaction volume we might see the beginnings of a real market economy here.

Paul Watson's Sea Shepherd Conservation Society now accepting BTC: http://www.seashepherd.org.au/support-us/support-us.html
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July 24, 2012, 01:20:19 PM
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Exactly. The Mt. Gox rates are currently being manipulated by a few major players. Even a cursory analysis can show this is true without a doubt. It's great if you're a trader and capitalize on it to make quick returns, but investors should have no illusion of a free market at work, the total BTC economy is just too small at this point, and the only short term way it can get larger is for bitcoin to increase in value substantially.

What isn't free about the market?  Are you prohibited from participating?  Are their barriers to entry created by the government?  Nautral monpolies at work?

It is a free market.  If profits are that easy for someone with enough capital the FREE MARKET will bring in more entities with lots of capital and that "easy profit" will be erased and the market will continue to gain liquidity and depth.

What do you think

Quote
There are a few businesses where it might be acceptable to lose 20-30% in conversion. If you count cash with a scale instead of a bill counter, you probably don't care about sustaining ongoing trading losses to keep things on an even keel.

We accept Bitcoins.  We never lose 20% to 30% in the conversion.  If you are smart you can float an hours worth of orders and sell an equivalent amount as soon as you get paid (0-confirm).   0% lost in conversion.   If you want someone else to do it use bitpay and for 1.5% they will deal with all the conversion risk/complexity.

Quote
There's way to much of bitcoin's future riding on Mt Gox right now. If Gox gets taken down for whatever reason (several scenarios come to mind) the bitcoin credibility hit would be huge. When no single entity answers for more than 15-20% of total transaction volume we might see the beginnings of a real market economy here.  Last time I checked the market doesn't move 30% in a fractional second. 

While I am often an outspoken critic of the Gox for a variety of reasons this is just more of your "I don't know what the word free market means" nonsense.    The idea that you need an exchange to have no more than 20% of the volume to have a free market is just stupid.  Have you heard of NYSE?  Nasdaq?  CBOE?   While today a lot more trades occur off exchange that always hasn't been the case and even today a significant fraction of the trades occur ON the exchange.
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July 24, 2012, 05:07:07 PM
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Well, if it is a Ponzi scheme, you want to get in early! Right? Only the suckers are going to sit around weighing the pros and cons.

 Tongue
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July 24, 2012, 10:36:55 PM
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Lets say for the sake of argument that a hypothetical investment program offering 7% is just some ponzi HYIP scam.  How does the discredit Bitcoin?  Do USD based HYIP scams discredit the dollar?

Bitcoin is a medium of exchange.  If someone falls victim to a Ponzi it isn't the fault of the medium of exchange.

I completely agree.

In the end, I am not worried about the 'investments' that appear to be ponzi schemes.

If people want to take extreme risk, let them.

I will be by the wayside and I will be there after the ponzi's collapse, and Bitcoin will survive just fine.
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July 25, 2012, 11:03:07 PM
 #18

This is good food for thought.  I was wondering the same thing about the people who offer a 7% interest rate.  I’m glad that I am not the only one that thinks it is too good to be true!
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