[DATA]Exchanges: their way of using a fractional-reserve and generate inflation

[croato]

Exchanges are important but weakest point in Bitcoin ecosystem, i can hardly wait to see that decentralised solutions. I feel that will be huge boost.

[1715239427]

1715239427

[gbianchi]

Exchanges are important but weakest point in Bitcoin ecosystem, i can hardly wait to see that decentralised solutions. I feel that will be huge boost.

How I wrote, p2p exchangs projects require time and in the meanwhile we must learn how to live with traditional exchanges.
 

[Possum577]

Here's the problem, if I operate with a bank and they close I lose my BTC. If I operate as my own bank and have a wallet on my PC and get hacked I lose my BTC. If I operate as my own bank and have a paper wallet and it get lost or stolen or destroyed I lose my BTC.

I can't win. I can't remove the risk.

[gbianchi]

Here's the problem, if I operate with a bank and they close I lose my BTC. If I operate as my own bank and have a wallet on my PC and get hacked I lose my BTC. If I operate as my own bank and have a paper wallet and it get lost or stolen or destroyed I lose my BTC.

I can't win. I can't remove the risk.

you can not completely remove the risk, but you can reduce it a lot.

And learn how to do is educational, nobody will ever take your risk for free!

[acquafredda]

Here's the problem, if I operate with a bank and they close I lose my BTC. If I operate as my own bank and have a wallet on my PC and get hacked I lose my BTC. If I operate as my own bank and have a paper wallet and it get lost or stolen or destroyed I lose my BTC.

I can't win. I can't remove the risk.

you can not completely remove the risk, but you can reduce it a lot.

And learn how to do is educational, nobody will ever take your risk for free!

I quote what you both said. But yes in the end you should be the only responsible person regarding ANYTHING in your life.
This thing for me goes beyond BTC.

We do what we can to reduce risks and if something wrong happens, fine...

[IMZ]

FYI

I learned long ago that a 'cousin' of what we're talkin' about here exists in the real-estate game;

agents collect the rent for, say, 100 units in a block. They are responsible to 'disburse' those funds to the owners of the units -- but if they patiently skwidgeewiggleificate the disbursement dates, they end up with a 'standing' quantity of money in the bursar's account. And the agency gets interest on that 'standing' amount (and the practice is illegal).

That is, it's not the agent's money; but they get to profit from it while it's in their system.

Mark

[acquafredda]

FYI

I learned long ago that a 'cousin' of what we're talkin' about here exists in the real-estate game;

agents collect the rent for, say, 100 units in a block. They are responsible to 'disburse' those funds to the owners of the units -- but if they patiently skwidgeewiggleificate the disbursement dates, they end up with a 'standing' quantity of money in the bursar's account. And the agency gets interest on that 'standing' amount (and the practice is illegal).

That is, it's not the agent's money; but they get to profit from it while it's in their system.

Mark

I know that as well.
And yes, again, this is what is probably happening with BTC exchanges.
And this is really sad because this means that if we don't go against this practice the whole ecosystem might have huge troubles.

Thanks for sharing your cousin's info

[Bernie87]

I learned long ago that a 'cousin' of what we're talkin' about here exists in the real-estate game;

agents collect the rent for, say, 100 units in a block. They are responsible to 'disburse' those funds to the owners of the units -- but if they patiently skwidgeewiggleificate the disbursement dates, they end up with a 'standing' quantity of money in the bursar's account. And the agency gets interest on that 'standing' amount (and the practice is illegal).

That is, it's not the agent's money; but they get to profit from it while it's in their system.

Mark

As I understand it, that is exactly what happens everytime people transact. Anything (fiat, bitcoin, even hardware, anything deemed of value) paid to a third party (a bank, an exchange, an internet hardware reseller, etc.) is a zero-interest loan you make until you receive your stuff (bank account interest, bought hardware, etc.). Everytime you pay someone, you're giving them the opportunity to spend your money before they give you your stuff, and so introduce liquidity/solvency risks best illustrated by ponzi scheme failures. That is credit creation, and it is enabled just by the consumer spending money and waiting for his stuff. That's why being your own bank/custodian (= being in possession of your money/stuff) a maximum of the time is the antidote -- avoiding third parties by using decentralized exchanges as much as possible implies being your own bank/custodian. But, as already said, that also automatically transfers more responsibility directly on consumers.

Trying to be your own bank/custodian means you're trying to reduce the opportunities for third parties to profit from your money/stuff while it is in their systems by 1. getting rid of useless third-parties and 2. reducing delays in transaction settlement/clearing so that your money/stuff is in the third party systems a minimum of the time. Having zero delay is impossible for many kinds of transactions (or even not wanted, e.g. bitcoin mixing), but with bitcoin we can certainly do way better than the huge delays built into the fiat banking system!

[koelen3]

FYI

I learned long ago that a 'cousin' of what we're talkin' about here exists in the real-estate game;

agents collect the rent for, say, 100 units in a block. They are responsible to 'disburse' those funds to the owners of the units -- but if they patiently skwidgeewiggleificate the disbursement dates, they end up with a 'standing' quantity of money in the bursar's account. And the agency gets interest on that 'standing' amount (and the practice is illegal).

That is, it's not the agent's money; but they get to profit from it while it's in their system.

Mark

That is pretty messed up
It's getting hard to trust with our coins with these exchanges and seeing how they are going down one by one makes it worse

[gbianchi]

Here's the problem, if I operate with a bank and they close I lose my BTC. If I operate as my own bank and have a wallet on my PC and get hacked I lose my BTC. If I operate as my own bank and have a paper wallet and it get lost or stolen or destroyed I lose my BTC.

I can't win. I can't remove the risk.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet

[gbianchi]

Trying to be your own bank/custodian means you're trying to reduce the opportunities for third parties to profit from your money/stuff while it is in their systems by 1. getting rid of useless third-parties and 2. reducing delays in transaction settlement/clearing so that your money/stuff is in the third party systems a minimum of the time. Having zero delay is impossible for many kinds of transactions (or even not wanted, e.g. bitcoin mixing), but with bitcoin we can certainly do way better than the huge delays built into the fiat banking system!

great ! we need to spread this awareness

[gbianchi]

from https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block

The coinbase parameter (seen above in hex) contains, along with the normal data, the following text[1]:

The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks[2]

This was probably intended as proof that the block was created on or after January 3rd, 2009, as well as a comment on the instability caused by fractional-reserve banking.

not another fractional-reserve banking, thanks !

[gbianchi]

[acquafredda]

Something happened when Mt.GOx collapsed. It seems so clear

[koelen3]

Is that of any particular exchange or overall ?

[gbianchi]

Is that of any particular exchange or overall ?

bitstamp price (before 2010-07-17 mtgox price)

 

[koelen3]

Is that of any particular exchange or overall ?

bitstamp price (before 2010-07-17 mtgox price)

 

You mean after 2010-07-17 right ?
Though it's really depressing

[gbianchi]

You mean after 2010-07-17 right ?
Though it's really depressing

Sorry, I was wrong.

After 2011-09-13  I use bitstamp prices.

Previus prices are from mtgox.

[gbianchi]

1 month, 16,864,155 BTC volume

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=ALL&span=30d

[koelen3]

You mean after 2010-07-17 right ?
Though it's really depressing

Sorry, I was wrong.

After 2011-09-13  I use bitstamp prices.

Previus prices are from mtgox.

Ohk! bitstamp is better than mtgox anyways
Oh! wait what mtgox ??