Permanently keeping the 1MB (anti-spam) restriction is a great idea ...

[not altcoin hitler]

However, if block size is increased, there's really no reason why most miners won't include as many transactions as possible, since it doesn't really cost them anything. Transactors will no longer be required to pay to have their transactions included in the blockchain, and eventually profit-seeking miners will leave.

It costs mining pools nothing *now* to process transactions.  And in fact they are not even required to fill blocks up with transactions, there are empty blocks produced all the time.

Minimum fees can be set regardless of block size.

I don't think, that is true. Looking at the last blocks, they all had transactions in them.
Could you show me one of this recent 0 transaction blocks?

https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000001672c2c047085db722e577902c48d018cd88f1d46359fa28


Just an example. There is heaps of empty blocks. That's why anyone saying it would be urgent is a douchebag and likely has some other agenda.

[Buffer Overflow]

However, if block size is increased, there's really no reason why most miners won't include as many transactions as possible, since it doesn't really cost them anything. Transactors will no longer be required to pay to have their transactions included in the blockchain, and eventually profit-seeking miners will leave.

It costs mining pools nothing *now* to process transactions.  And in fact they are not even required to fill blocks up with transactions, there are empty blocks produced all the time.

Minimum fees can be set regardless of block size.

I don't think, that is true. Looking at the last blocks, they all had transactions in them.
Could you show me one of this recent 0 transaction blocks?

https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000001672c2c047085db722e577902c48d018cd88f1d46359fa28


Just an example. There is heaps of empty blocks. That's why anyone saying it would be urgent is a douchebag and likely has some other agenda.

That's because the miner chose to not include any transactions in the block, except the coinbase one of course. It doesn't mean there wasn't any waiting in the memory pool.

[solex]

That's because the miner chose to not include any transactions in the block, except the coinbase one of course. It doesn't mean there wasn't any waiting in the memory pool.

Ah. Snagged by an MP sockpuppet!

[Meuh6879]

There is no realistic scenario where a network capped permanently at 1MB can have meaningful adoption whilst still maintaining direct access to the blockchain by individuals.

there is no realistic scenario where plastic card with 1960 chip on it can have meaningfull adoption.

Wait ... mmmmmh ? 

[Peter R]

[BillyBobZorton]

We obviously need a bigger block size if we want to challenge the big payment electronic systems. My main concern is that the people running nodes could be severely decreased due the blockchain being bigger than ever.

[Buffer Overflow]

There is no realistic scenario where a network capped permanently at 1MB can have meaningful adoption whilst still maintaining direct access to the blockchain by individuals.

there is no realistic scenario where plastic card with 1960 chip on it can have meaningfull adoption.

Exactly. Absolutely correct if the plastic card was stuck with an embarrassing 2.7tps like bitcoin.

[ArticMine]

There is no realistic scenario where a network capped permanently at 1MB can have meaningful adoption whilst still maintaining direct access to the blockchain by individuals.

there is no realistic scenario where plastic card with 1960 chip on it can have meaningfull adoption.

Wait ... mmmmmh ?  

Actually the analogy would be to limit the credit card industry to the mainstream data processing technology of the 1940's namely tabulating machines and punch cards. The pre-dates 1) Integrated circuits, 2) Transistors, and 3) The use of vacuum tubes in computers.

Edit: The credit card number would be copied by hand for each transaction.

[marcus_of_augustus]

We obviously need a bigger block size if we want to challenge the big payment electronic systems. My main concern is that the people running nodes could be severely decreased due the blockchain being bigger than ever.

If we wanted to challenge the big payment electronic systems it would not be decentralised because the multi-node redundancy scales like O(N), N- number of node sites, i.e. it gets expensive rapidly.

Compare with SWIFT or Fedwire for something relevant, at this stage of technological development (one day it may be possible that all google's data is stuffed into the blockchain, not today).

[phelix]

Why don't we simply increase the limit to 2, 3 or 4MB and have a year or so for drama to improve performance?

[spooderman]

ever heard of sidechains? not every offchain solution means "evil bank, centralised, regulate-able, monstrosity." In fact, confidential transactions means better privacy than the current way of doing things on-chain.

Therefore

Keep blocks small? 

[DooMAD]

ever heard of sidechains?

No, this is literally the first time anyone has mentioned them ever.  

Ever heard of things that actually exist and are proven to work?  Because sidechains aren't ready yet.  Still in development.  Not functional.  Untested.  How many more times are people going to keep saying the same damn thing like it's some sort of fantastic solution no one has considered?  Yes, sidechains would be great if they were an actual thing.  But they aren't.

Therefore

Keep blocks small?  

Keeping blocks small is not an option.  We've never attempted to run the network with full blocks before and clearly you don't understand the implications of doing that.  At present, if you pay a fee, your transaction is pretty much guaranteed to be included in the next block.  If you don't include a fee, you may be left waiting.  This is how the network has operated since inception.  But if blocks are full, even if you pay an average fee, there may be insufficient space to be included, so you're left to guess what fee needs to be paid at any given time.  This amount will not only vary depending on traffic, but will also be difficult (if not impossible) to accurately forecast.  Every transaction would be a guessing game as to whether it is confirmed in the next block or you have to wait.  If you guess incorrectly, keep waiting.  This level of uncertainty and risk is frankly unacceptable and would undoubtedly impact adoption in a negative way.  Not to mention the forums here would be an endless shitstorm of people whining about delays, saying "Bitcoin is slow and broken".  Attempting to run the network at full capacity is not a desirable outcome for anyone.  Keeping a 1MB blocksize is not viable because no one wants to play guessing games when it comes to time and money.

[spooderman]

Yes you're right, let's make it 20x larger and break the consent based process we have relied upon until now. /s

I'm fine with increasing it to the 8MB suggested by many. I'm aware that the 1MB limit is arbitrary.

[R2D221]

Yes you're right, let's make it 20x larger and break the consent based process we have relied upon until now. /s

I'm fine with increasing it to the 8MB suggested by many. I'm aware that the 1MB limit is arbitrary.

So, you're against 20 MB because not everyone agrees, but you do want 8 MB, even if not everyone agrees? Isn't that a contradiction?

[spooderman]

I'm for 8 because it seems that more people can agree on that. Thus less threat of division.

[ajareselde]

I'm for 8 because it seems that more people can agree on that. Thus less threat of division.

It's not always about what people want now, it's what those people may need in the future. Isn't it better just to go with the 20 MB, rather than having the possibility of having to make another change soon after?
There is far more damage done by arguing about this, than the 20 MB could of caused, imho.
cheers

[ammy009]

I agree with it 

[Lauda]

I should just leave this here:


It's quite obvious that 1MB won't be enough pretty soon IMO. However, 20MB might be a bit too much at the moment. Although we might just end up discussing(wasting our time) again.
We are very near to seeing full blocks. It shouldn't take us much longer as we already have an average block size of 0.6MB.

[Muhammed Zakir]

I should just leave this here:


It's quite obvious that 1MB won't be enough pretty soon IMO. However, 20MB might be a bit too much at the moment. Although we might just end up discussing(wasting our time) again.
We are very near to seeing full blocks. It shouldn't take us much longer as we already have an average block size of 0.6MB.

We obviously need to increase block size. Many of them doesn't want to increase maximum size to 20MB is because most nodes will go down due to low space but I doubt we will reach 20MB in the near future. However, a limit was placed to prevent a few problems such as DOS and I think Bitcoin has still not overcome that problem. So I guess increasing block size to 8MB(which is accepted by most) would be good.

[spazzdla]

We obviously need a bigger block size if we want to challenge the big payment electronic systems. My main concern is that the people running nodes could be severely decreased due the blockchain being bigger than ever.

This is my issue as well.  If the blockchain.. when the block chain reaches 1 TB.. there will be issues with everyone running a node..

IT would appear the size of the blockchain is out pacing the upgrade in harddrives...