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Author Topic: Drug War  (Read 7247 times)
benjamindees
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July 22, 2012, 11:25:32 PM
 #1

Secret "Mexican-American" Blackwater (Xe, Academi) hit squad, authorized by the Bush administration and led by a "bodyguard for a narco crime boss," "whacking people like crazy over in Afghanistan for the CIA" as recently as 2011, with little or no oversight but apparently plenty of denial.  "Blackwater produced no evidence that the firm's employees had ever killed anyone on behalf of the CIA."

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/07/the-terrifying-background-of-the-man-who-ran-a-cia-assassination-unit/259856/


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July 23, 2012, 07:54:27 AM
 #2

.... and Obama assassinated a 16 year old American citizen without due process. Whats new about the fact that our country is run by murderous gangsters with no respect for the rule of law or society?

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July 23, 2012, 09:01:39 AM
 #3

And here's a lovely little companion piece to the picture in the OP:



Yes, those are US troops. No, they are not stopping that man from growing poppies. They are protecting him and his fields while he does so.

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July 23, 2012, 09:15:46 AM
 #4

And here's a lovely little companion piece to the picture in the OP:

Yes, those are US troops. No, they are not stopping that man from growing poppies. They are protecting him and his fields while he does so.
Yeah because pharmaceuticals need poppies in order to develop morphine and opiates which SAVE LIVES in critical situations...

That doesn't mean that I am for the drug war however, as it has created more problems than it has solved, and marijuana always gets unfair and brazen treatment, even though it's less addictive than coffee, and less harmful than many over the counter medications.

However, implying that the US troops are part of some massive conspiracy to smuggle heroine into the western world is a bit disingenuous.

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July 23, 2012, 09:27:08 AM
 #5

And here's a lovely little companion piece to the picture in the OP:

Yes, those are US troops. No, they are not stopping that man from growing poppies. They are protecting him and his fields while he does so.
Yeah because pharmaceuticals need poppies in order to develop morphine and opiates which SAVE LIVES in critical situations...

And? Why are US troops guarding those fields? Why are our sons, fathers, brothers, and uncles risking their lives for pharmaceutical companies? No matter which way you slice this, it stinks to high heaven.

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July 23, 2012, 09:33:14 AM
 #6

There are 40k dead from the "Drug Wars" in the last 5 years in mexico, also 40k Mexican army deployed. The "cartels" are trying to set up their own governments. There is a civil war occurring to the US's south and no one even talks about it. The illegal immigrants are refugees, I don't know whether fast and furious was more than it seems. It wouldn't surprise me.

The drug trade is valued at somewhere around $600 billion per year and growing. That is larger than the GDP of 90% of internationally recognized countries.

The war on drugs is either a joke, a failure, or a scheme of some kind.
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July 23, 2012, 10:10:28 AM
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Drug war= Hostile take over
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July 23, 2012, 04:45:01 PM
 #8

And here's a lovely little companion piece to the picture in the OP:

Yes, those are US troops. No, they are not stopping that man from growing poppies. They are protecting him and his fields while he does so.
Yeah because pharmaceuticals need poppies in order to develop morphine and opiates which SAVE LIVES in critical situations...

That doesn't mean that I am for the drug war however, as it has created more problems than it has solved, and marijuana always gets unfair and brazen treatment, even though it's less addictive than coffee, and less harmful than many over the counter medications.

However, implying that the US troops are part of some massive conspiracy to smuggle heroine into the western world is a bit disingenuous.

Opium production went up 900% since the US went into Afghanistan. Did 900% more people suddenly need pain killers?

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July 25, 2012, 04:54:44 AM
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And here's a lovely little companion piece to the picture in the OP:

Yes, those are US troops. No, they are not stopping that man from growing poppies. They are protecting him and his fields while he does so.
Yeah because pharmaceuticals need poppies in order to develop morphine and opiates which SAVE LIVES in critical situations...

That doesn't mean that I am for the drug war however, as it has created more problems than it has solved, and marijuana always gets unfair and brazen treatment, even though it's less addictive than coffee, and less harmful than many over the counter medications.

However, implying that the US troops are part of some massive conspiracy to smuggle heroine into the western world is a bit disingenuous.

Opium production went up 900% since the US went into Afghanistan. Did 900% more people suddenly need pain killers?

Says who?
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July 25, 2012, 06:18:07 AM
 #10

http://www.unodc.org/pdf/WDR_2005/volume_1_chap1_opium.pdf

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July 25, 2012, 12:29:12 PM
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Your report shows a 16% jump...

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July 25, 2012, 03:11:38 PM
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Way to be lazy and only read the first paragraph. First of all that is JUST 2004, second that is GLOBAL ILLICIT POPPY PRODUCTION, not Afghanistan's production. Go down to "Table 1. GLOBAL ILLICIT CULTIVATION OF OPIUM POPPY AND PRODUCTION OF OPIUM, 1990-2004", page 3, and look at the jump in acreage after 2001.

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July 26, 2012, 03:59:07 AM
 #13



I'd say more around 60-70% since 2001 was such an outlier. Still, the point stands that the war on drugs is a joke.



Edit: Source is below

Way to be lazy and only read the first paragraph. First of all that is JUST 2004, second that is GLOBAL ILLICIT POPPY PRODUCTION, not Afghanistan's production. Go down to "Table 1. GLOBAL ILLICIT CULTIVATION OF OPIUM POPPY AND PRODUCTION OF OPIUM, 1990-2004"  and look at the jump in acreage after 2001.
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July 26, 2012, 05:42:12 AM
 #14

Also, people should not conflate the "War on Drugs" with the "Drug War". The Drug War is the media's term for the mexican civil war that has been going on for the last 5 years. So far 40k dead, over 40k mexican troops deployed, etc:

Quote
Speaking at an anti-crime conference, [Mexico's President] Calderon said gangs are imposing fees like taxes in towns they dominate, extorting money from both legitimate and unauthorized businesses.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38565051/ns/world_news-americas/#.UBDYSKPlK70
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July 26, 2012, 06:03:17 AM
 #15

You ask for sources from me but don't provide any of your own? For all I know that chart was made on a etch-a-sketch.

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July 26, 2012, 06:18:07 AM
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You ask for sources from me but don't provide any of your own? For all I know that chart was made on a etch-a-sketch.

My bad, it is from your link, from the table you advised looking at, from the row you said was important. I think we are on the same side here though...
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July 26, 2012, 10:15:48 PM
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You ask for sources from me but don't provide any of your own? For all I know that chart was made on a etch-a-sketch.

My bad, it is from your link, from the table you advised looking at, from the row you said was important. I think we are on the same side here though...
That is not the table I advised looking at. It is a simple index, not a chart. See page 3. I love how cherry picking always seems to be the thing the other guy does.

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July 26, 2012, 10:41:15 PM
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Look this is just a big waste of time... I dunno if you are trying to save face or what, but there is nothing wrong with being mistaken every now and then. It is a virtue to be able to acknowledge mistakes, many people find it difficult. It is in the interest of your cause to admit mistakes and learn from them. Really even talking about this is taking away from the point...but at the same time, my goal is getting past all this BS disinfo so we can actually have public discussions about how valid the data people base their opinions on is to begin with:


Way to be lazy and only read the first paragraph. First of all that is JUST 2004, second that is GLOBAL ILLICIT POPPY PRODUCTION, not Afghanistan's production. Go down to "Table 1. GLOBAL ILLICIT CULTIVATION OF OPIUM POPPY AND PRODUCTION OF OPIUM, 1990-2004", page 3, and look at the jump in acreage after 2001.

You ask for sources from me but don't provide any of your own? For all I know that chart was made on a etch-a-sketch.

My bad, it is from your link, from the table you advised looking at, from the row you said was important. I think we are on the same side here though...
That is not the table I advised looking at. It is a simple index, not a chart. See page 3. I love how cherry picking always seems to be the thing the other guy does.

I follow the link:
http://www.unodc.org/pdf/WDR_2005/volume_1_chap1_opium.pdf

I find table 1 on page 3 of the pdf (pg # at bottom reads 41), and look at the acreage, specifically for afganistan (Top row of data):
"Go down to "Table 1. GLOBAL ILLICIT CULTIVATION OF OPIUM POPPY AND PRODUCTION OF OPIUM, 1990-2004", page 3, and look at the jump in acreage after 2001."




Please explain how either I am looking at a chart different from the one you described or the numbers in that table and the numbers in the chart I created do not match up.
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July 26, 2012, 11:00:41 PM
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hmmm.  I was under the impression that Afghanistan only produced Opium Gum. Which is not used by pharmaceutical companies. They buy Poppy Straw, mostly from countries that have licensed prodcution schemes and extract the needed chemicals from a slury derived from the poppy straw.

The main reason US troops our guarding the farmers is not to make sure that it is sold to pharma. It is to make sure the Taliban is not stopping the farmers from growing. After that the troops have 0 to do with what the farmers do with their crops.....




Point is, and will remain that almost all poppy produced in Afghanistan is Illicit Poppy.....

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July 26, 2012, 11:03:41 PM
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Well, comparing 2001 production numbers, (part 2 of that chart, "Potential Production in Metric Tons") to 2004 numbers, the potential 2004 production is 22 times the 2001 potential production.

Comparing it to the 1990 numbers, the potential production in 2004 is more than 2.5 times.

The acreage increase from 2001 to 2004 is 17 times, and the increase from 1990 to 2004 is 3 times. Either way, it's a huge increase since the US has gone in, and y'all are just splitting hairs.

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