Coinbase, is it safe to use?

[alani123]

read my signature

Fun fact: it's more secure to store your bitcoins in a website with 2fa rather than an unsecured computer. So if someone is not tech savvy enough to know how to secure a computer in order to put his bitcoin wallet in it a trusted and established third party exchange/website (or whatever) that uses 2fa would be just fine for them. Certainly not the best option but secure enough to not lose their bitcoins if their computer is hacked.

[tss]

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.

Exactly, if you don't know the private key you "don't own" the bitcoin. I suggest to the OP : use greenAddress.it ( it uses multiSign+2Fa) or electrum ( strong and fast, you don't have to download all the blockchain).

When buy or lease a car, or take a mortgage on a home, you do not technically own it, but you get to USE it.

Likewise, bitcoin could almost be considered a public utility. Store of value, and money transmission. You do not technically OWN the Federal Reserve notes in your pocket. In some sense no one owns it, and everyone owns it… Granted the ones you have belong in your possession but the utilitarian nature of it is such that you can transfer those notes off to someone else and they will be accepted, so not necessarily owned by you or other person….. OWNing something is a play on words.

if you OWN your private key.  you OWN your btc

[nachoig]

Exploring Coinbase, they have a separate wallet service where they let you be the owner of your keys.
Its called a Vault in their service.
https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/1743782-what-is-the-multisig-vault-

is this better?

Of course. You can find it here: https://www.coinbase.com/multisig

But I think GreenAddress is still a better option, because of their transparence.

read my signature

Fun fact: it's more secure to store your bitcoins in a website with 2fa rather than an unsecured computer. So if someone is not tech savvy enough to know how to secure a computer in order to put his bitcoin wallet in it a trusted and established third party exchange/website (or whatever) that uses 2fa would be just fine for them. Certainly not the best option but secure enough to not lose their bitcoins if their computer is hacked.

This defeats the purpose of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is supposed to give to the people the control of the eletronic money.

Also, exchange are hacked too, so storing the bitcoins on an exchange doesn't solve the problem. Currently the best answer to this concern is multi-signature.

[alani123]

This defeats the purpose of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is supposed to give to the people the control of the eletronic money.

Also, exchange are hacked too, so storing the bitcoins on an exchange doesn't solve the problem. Currently the best answer to this concern is multi-signature.

I know, I was trying to point out that a secure website can be safer in specific cases. You can't deny that a website with HTTPS and 2fa (maybe multisig as well since we're talking about bitcoin) is more secure than a windows computer in the hands of someone that's not tech savvy.

[ajw7989]

Online wallet with 2 factor authorization is typically safer than an active wallet. The safest of course is an offline wallet. Now that we are done with wallet safety the more important thing is to make sure the company itself is reputable. You do not want a repeat of GOX where they close with your money. As for coinbase its probably one of the safest you can go with online. The company is very reputable, has been in business for quite some time, is in US and is as transparent as can be, and has 2FA. I keep the bulk of my money there only because I dont have to pay transaction fees to receiving dust from miners at times doesnt affect profits.

[alani123]

Problem with coinbase is that they're monitoring transactions. They have the right to suspend your account at any time if you send coins to any address that could be related to anything illegal within the US. That includes all unregistered gambling websites as well. Of course, they give you an option to withdraw your funds before shutting down your account. However, As said above: this defeats the purpose of Bitcoin. They're not a neutral service provider, and that's why I don't consider them a reliable wallet. Aside from the fact that you don't have access to your private addresses and it's not disclosed if deposited coins are used by the company or not. They also update their User Agreement silently applying important updates without any warning or notification.

Short version:

Coinbase as a way to buy and sell BTC: 1% fee(there's lower than that but ok), company seems trusted, overall considered safe

Coinbase as a wallet: Technically not a (full) wallet. Better go for https://greenaddress.it if all you want is an online wallet.

[nachoig]

Online wallet with 2 factor authorization is typically safer than an active wallet. The safest of course is an offline wallet. Now that we are done with wallet safety the more important thing is to make sure the company itself is reputable. You do not want a repeat of GOX where they close with your money. As for coinbase its probably one of the safest you can go with online. The company is very reputable, has been in business for quite some time, is in US and is as transparent as can be, and has 2FA. I keep the bulk of my money there only because I dont have to pay transaction fees to receiving dust from miners at times doesnt affect profits.

Transaction fess are necessary because:

1. At some point in the future, block rewards won't be profitable. Including a transaction fee since already is necessary to avoid surprises (like people saying: I never had to pay a transaction fee, why do I have to pay now? This is an abuse!!!).

2. Without transaction fees, it would impossible to use Bitcoin because of the spammers.

If Coinbase doesn't include transaction fees, it's their issue But it's not an advantage, also the miners can refuse to include this type of transaction in the blocks, or it gets a very low priority.

[alani123]

They do include transaction fees, coinbase just doesn't charge the user. They supposedly pay the costs from their part. That surely something they can cover since they have a 1% fee for all trades and they've never disclosed if they practice fractional reserve with user funds... Not to mention that their buy price is always different from the sell price.

[nachoig]

They do include transaction fees, coinbase just doesn't charge the user. They supposedly pay the costs from their part. That surely something they can cover since they have a 1% fee for all trades and they've never disclosed if they practice fractional reserve with user funds... Not to mention that their buy price is always different from the sell price.

They do this in any case or just in case of you're sending the bitcoins from a Coinbase wallet to another Coinbase wallet?

[redsn0w]

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.

Exactly, if you don't know the private key you "don't own" the bitcoin. I suggest to the OP : use greenAddress.it ( it uses multiSign+2Fa) or electrum ( strong and fast, you don't have to download all the blockchain).

When buy or lease a car, or take a mortgage on a home, you do not technically own it, but you get to USE it.

Likewise, bitcoin could almost be considered a public utility. Store of value, and money transmission. You do not technically OWN the Federal Reserve notes in your pocket. In some sense no one owns it, and everyone owns it… Granted the ones you have belong in your possession but the utilitarian nature of it is such that you can transfer those notes off to someone else and they will be accepted, so not necessarily owned by you or other person….. OWNing something is a play on words.

if you OWN your private key.  you OWN your btc

Yes, with bitcoin is different and in this case only if you "know" the private key of your address you are really owning your bitcoin. For example if coinbase close now, how do you get in possession of your bitcoin (without the private key)?

I always suggest greenAddress as webWallet ( it uses multiSign + 2FA , the best choice). Here the forum thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521988.0  and remember the istant confirmation, if the other "person" is using also GA.

[alani123]

They do include transaction fees, coinbase just doesn't charge the user. They supposedly pay the costs from their part. That surely something they can cover since they have a 1% fee for all trades and they've never disclosed if they practice fractional reserve with user funds... Not to mention that their buy price is always different from the sell price.

They do this in any case or just in case of you're sending the bitcoins from a Coinbase wallet to another Coinbase wallet?

For all transactions sent using their wallet as far as I know.

[CtrlAltBernanke420]

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.

Exactly, if you don't know the private key you "don't own" the bitcoin. I suggest to the OP : use greenAddress.it ( it uses multiSign+2Fa) or electrum ( strong and fast, you don't have to download all the blockchain).

When buy or lease a car, or take a mortgage on a home, you do not technically own it, but you get to USE it.

Likewise, bitcoin could almost be considered a public utility. Store of value, and money transmission. You do not technically OWN the Federal Reserve notes in your pocket. In some sense no one owns it, and everyone owns it… Granted the ones you have belong in your possession but the utilitarian nature of it is such that you can transfer those notes off to someone else and they will be accepted, so not necessarily owned by you or other person….. OWNing something is a play on words.

if you OWN your private key.  you OWN your btc

All it would take is a one on one confrontation for someone to steal you coins at gunpoint. Having a 3rd party gives you a bit of recourse. The answer is some happy middle.

You must know what you are doing on a very technical level to understand the process of cold storage. I understand the merits of cold storage but that doesnt mean I know that I should trust it with my millions..

Coinbase isn't the best i agree, but it is much better than forgetting your private key, losing it, house burns down, bad head trauma….. Bitcoin needs insurance and I don't think there will ever be a product that can properly insure bitcoin so there is always risk, but this is true with gold, dollars, owning an expensive car without insurance..

[redsn0w]

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.

Exactly, if you don't know the private key you "don't own" the bitcoin. I suggest to the OP : use greenAddress.it ( it uses multiSign+2Fa) or electrum ( strong and fast, you don't have to download all the blockchain).

When buy or lease a car, or take a mortgage on a home, you do not technically own it, but you get to USE it.

Likewise, bitcoin could almost be considered a public utility. Store of value, and money transmission. You do not technically OWN the Federal Reserve notes in your pocket. In some sense no one owns it, and everyone owns it… Granted the ones you have belong in your possession but the utilitarian nature of it is such that you can transfer those notes off to someone else and they will be accepted, so not necessarily owned by you or other person….. OWNing something is a play on words.

if you OWN your private key.  you OWN your btc

All it would take is a one on one confrontation for someone to steal you coins at gunpoint. Having a 3rd party gives you a bit of recourse. The answer is some happy middle.

You must know what you are doing on a very technical level to understand the process of cold storage. I understand the merits of cold storage but that doesnt mean I know that I should trust it with my millions..

Coinbase isn't the best i agree, but it is much better than forgetting your private key, losing it, house burns down, bad head trauma….. Bitcoin needs insurance and I don't think there will ever be a product that can properly insure bitcoin so there is always risk, but this is true with gold, dollars, owning an expensive car without insurance..

Maybe yes , maybe not. Bitcoin is created for get back in possession of our money, I will not allow to a third part to hide "my private" key. I'd prefer to know/secure it in a better place.

[delulo]

I'm planning on moving all my bitcoin (which is not really that much) to my coinbase which seems easier to use than having to access my PC all the time I want to send or receive bitcoins.
I can access it via my Android Phone with the app or through the web.
With a good password and a 2step verification set, is it relatively safe? I'm more worried about Coinbase being slow with transactions or failing at some transactions than actually someone extern stealing the bitcoins.

If your purpose is to trade you can use a decentralized exchange like http://bitshares.org/ It doesn't have the counterparty risk any centralized exchange has.

[picolo]

I'm planning on moving all my bitcoin (which is not really that much) to my coinbase which seems easier to use than having to access my PC all the time I want to send or receive bitcoins.
I can access it via my Android Phone with the app or through the web.
With a good password and a 2step verification set, is it relatively safe? I'm more worried about Coinbase being slow with transactions or failing at some transactions than actually someone extern stealing the bitcoins.

It is relatively safe and if you have a small number of bitcoins (less than 10 times your monthly salary) it is fine)

[sandykho47bt]

It's very dangerous to store your bitcoin without able to take control your wallet
It's like you keep your money at strangers

You better move to another wallet