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Author Topic: Choose: Walk The Plank or Keelhaul  (Read 19160 times)
BoardGameCoin
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July 25, 2012, 03:01:57 AM
 #41

I would just like to urge caution to anyone who may be taken for a ride by pirateat40 and who has the belief that they have security because they've 'doxed' him.

Please realize that it's relatively trivial for someone playing a long con to use another person's identity. Consequently: don't do anything rash. Please act through the authorities or at the very least act under the assumption that you don't know where the real culprit is. 'Trendon Shavers' or whatever your dox results are is just the starting point. If he is also a particularly stupid con man, he's your endpoint too... but I doubts it.

-bgc

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myrkul
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July 25, 2012, 03:11:44 AM
 #42


Yeah, that doesn't really answer my question.  I'm not into all this conspiracy theory nonsense.

It's not a conspiracy theory to say "It's a ponzi, it's going to fall apart at or shortly after that date."

Fine, baseless speculation then Cheesy   Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't, I'm not really interested in getting into that (again).

Not entirely baseless. Read the article, especially the "Red flags" portion. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, it's not a platypus.

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copumpkin
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July 25, 2012, 03:55:37 AM
 #43

Not entirely baseless. Read the article, especially the "Red flags" portion. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, it's not a platypus.

Yeah, probably one of these:

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July 25, 2012, 04:22:15 AM
 #44

I bought a GPU from pirate once...  The package came from PA and not TX.

EDIT: pirateat40 has cashed out our BTC and is going to bet it all on RED at the tables in Vegas.  Good luck to us all.

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July 25, 2012, 04:38:15 AM
 #45

I bought a GPU from pirate once...  The package came from PA and not TX.

ever hear of drop shipping ?
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July 25, 2012, 04:40:17 AM
 #46

ever hear of drop shipping ?


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CoinCidental
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July 25, 2012, 05:26:03 AM
 #47

i bought some cuban cigars from pirate once ,but they came from ..........aww shit ! Smiley
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July 25, 2012, 08:20:33 AM
 #48

from what i understand bitcoinmax is not run by pirate himself  so those coins would have went into the personal  wallet of pay.btc first

if someone wants a withdrawl  of 100 BTC at the same time as someone else is investing 100BTC ,it wouldnt make sense for payb.tc to upload the first 100 BTC from the investor  and then download another 100 btc to pay the withdrawl

it makes sense to give 100 coins that just arrived in the personal wallet to the person that wants to take out 100 coins rather than pointlessly run it all through the btcst account just to take it out again immediately ......unless im missing something

You're missing that most people re-invest. 5k coins in this case.

Bitcoinmax knew the rough amount of re-investments beforehand, maybe they have a feature for it. It sent that fraction back right after the 7% interest payment arrived.

Look at the block chain and try to understand for yourselves. Bitcoinmax pay-out target: 19kEo3qmuUdAQb1Q7VZhRwahw5v3NSZCeW, other large BS&T client: 131YyEEz7wYMMuS6Qk4gMnEs2SgtqJ2GTE, potential Bitcoinmax deposit: 1FmC6gUV1tkT7HHmQzo3NwtgZs3WGSz4Rd
RoloTonyBrownTown
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July 25, 2012, 08:31:24 AM
 #49

potential

Uh-huh.

So which option will you be choosing? Smiley

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July 25, 2012, 09:08:04 AM
 #50

Uh-huh.

So which option will you be choosing? Smiley

It's Bitcoinmax deposit. Confirmed by someone who actually used them. Besides, if you have any other explanation that even remotely makes sense, go ahead.

If you're talking about "options" of this thread, you can't be serious.
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July 25, 2012, 09:10:44 AM
 #51

So it's option 3, random assumptions and hope for the best.  Good choice Smiley

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July 25, 2012, 10:51:47 AM
 #52

I would just like to urge caution to anyone who may be taken for a ride by pirateat40 and who has the belief that they have security because they've 'doxed' him.

Please realize that it's relatively trivial for someone playing a long con to use another person's identity. Consequently: don't do anything rash. Please act through the authorities or at the very least act under the assumption that you don't know where the real culprit is. 'Trendon Shavers' or whatever your dox results are is just the starting point. If he is also a particularly stupid con man, he's your endpoint too... but I doubts it.

Exactly. There are even darknet forums dedicated to identity theft and identity trading. Even if you've seen him face to face and he's shown a real passport with a photo that matches his face, it does not mean he is who he says he is.
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July 25, 2012, 01:50:07 PM
 #53

I would just like to urge caution to anyone who may be taken for a ride by pirateat40 and who has the belief that they have security because they've 'doxed' him.

Please realize that it's relatively trivial for someone playing a long con to use another person's identity. Consequently: don't do anything rash. Please act through the authorities or at the very least act under the assumption that you don't know where the real culprit is. 'Trendon Shavers' or whatever your dox results are is just the starting point. If he is also a particularly stupid con man, he's your endpoint too... but I doubts it.

-bgc
Exactly this. I've been saying this for a long time: nobody actually knows who Pirate is. There are many people who say that they've met him/slept with his sister and claim that it's trivial to identify him, but I highly suspect that they were either lying for their own purposes, were paid off by Pirate, or misled by Pirate - potentially a professional conman - with fraudulent documents, or a combination of all three (i.e. they were willing to say they met him after they saw the documents and Pirate paid them to make it sound like they know Pirate more than they really do).

Absolutely no dox have been posted for public scrutiny at any time. Additionally, the fact that he avoids using MtGox tells me that he's not actually Level 3 verified as he claims to be.

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July 25, 2012, 02:22:31 PM
 #54

There are many people who say that they've met him/slept with his sister and claim that it's trivial to identify him, but I highly suspect that they were either lying for their own purposes, were paid off by Pirate, or misled by Pirate - potentially a professional conman - with fraudulent documents, or a combination of all three (i.e. they were willing to say they met him after they saw the documents and Pirate paid them to make it sound like they know Pirate more than they really do).

ಠ_ಠ. In other news, McMaged suspects you (yes, you!) of secretly being a pedophile who tortures children for fun. Prove him wrong!

But seriously, did you really just say that? I'm the one who was "claiming to have slept with his sister", but that was a long-running joke and who the hell thought that was anything but humor? He's openly admitted (on IRC at least) that he doesn't even have a sister. Please tell me: who has actually, seriously claimed to have met him? The paranoia here borders on a full-fledged witch hunt, wherein you (and many others) see anyone who criticizes the weak arguments you have against him as being paid off by him or dishonest. That is ridiculous. If he admitted to me he was a Ponzi, or I had serious doubts about his honesty, I would not be lending him money. I may be stupid for trusting him, but I'm not dishonest, and I don't see why you'd assume his other lenders are either.

Now, step back a moment. Consider the evidence you have against him. Yes, his claimed returns are unrealistic. Yes, it "looks like a Ponzi", and it may well be one (I've openly admitted this in all my "rebuttals" of people's weak arguments against him). Now consider what it would take to convince you otherwise. If this were anywhere but a pseudonymous internet, would you go around telling people it was a Ponzi? No, of course not, because you'd probably get sued for defamation/slander/libel (whichever one is relevant to the particular flavor you're going for), and you'd actually have to do this face-to-face, which takes something more than an internet tough-guy persona. Now, because this is a forum and everyone loves to be opinionated, right, and rides the highest horse in town ("I'm doing it for the good of Bitcoin itself! No cognitive dissonance here at all!"), anyone remotely associated with him is out to screw everyone else?

Get a grip, all of you.
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July 25, 2012, 02:24:22 PM
 #55

So, I'm assuming that anyone concerned with his identity will be meeting him in Vegas, yes?

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July 25, 2012, 02:34:09 PM
 #56

So, I'm assuming that anyone concerned with his identity will be meeting him in Vegas, yes?

What exactly would that prove?  He is human?

I mean IF (and I don't have a horse in this race one way or another) this is a scam we are talking about a million dollar scam and probably a pro.  For a couple grand (a rounding error on the fraud) one could get birth cert, driver's license, and passport in the name Earl Scrooge McPirateDuck Jr.  For a couple grand more you could get a complete back history with matching records for schools, prior employment, credit cards, and all the social media sites to create an entire convincing backstory.  Seeing someone in person on a 1,000 BTC loan has some value.  It is all about risk/cost vs reward.  When the reward is millions of dollars unless you plan on hiring a investigating firm and spending tens of thousands of your own dollars any sel-help "due diligence" is going to come up short.

Now pirate may be running a legit operation (I don't know/care) but if so then what is keeping the "investors" from losing money is simply blind luck not any skill or due diligence.   


I think people are assuming the kind of due diligence that reduces the risk on a 100 BTC has any value in a potential multi million dollar scam.  It doesn't.  Hell you could get a DNA sample from "pirate" only to learn later that the "pirate" you met was simply some actor who lives in Vegas who was paid $10K to play a role for the day.

Once again before someone says proof this, or you can't prove that ... I DON'T GIVE A FLYING CRAP IF PIRATE IS A SCAMMER OR THE BEST BUSINESSMAN THAT BITCOIN HAS EVER SEEN.  It doesn't matter.   The reality is IF this is a scam/ponzi/fraud the victims are playing against someone way out of their league.   Like peewee soccer vs. world cup champs.
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July 25, 2012, 02:36:53 PM
 #57

So, I'm assuming that anyone concerned with his identity will be meeting him in Vegas, yes?


assuming he goes to vegas .....

assuming he brings real ID ......(fake passports and drivers licences available everywhere thesedays )

even someone verifys they know him since childhood etc ........still doesnt mean he couldnt split with the

cash or even stay put  and say he was hacked and some keylogger cleaned him out so tough shit everyone

hopefully not though...... Smiley




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July 25, 2012, 02:42:01 PM
 #58

Actually, I'd be willing to publicly state it was most likely a ponzi or some other shaky scheme. Free speech, use it, love it. That way I can point to my statements with very little sympathy for anyone whining about how he "stole" their money. Plenty of funds and people fed their clients into Madoff and that Texas guys schemes. Doesn't mean they are in the know or anything, but it is definitely not looking out for the best interests of client money. IMO, if it is indeed hollow it would be very foolish to join in at the invite everybody to invest stage.


Now, step back a moment. Consider the evidence you have against him. Yes, his claimed returns are unrealistic. Yes, it "looks like a Ponzi", and it may well be one (I've openly admitted this in all my "rebuttals" of people's weak arguments against him). Now consider what it would take to convince you otherwise. If this were anywhere but a pseudonymous internet, would you go around telling people it was a Ponzi? No, of course not, because you'd probably get sued for defamation/slander/libel (whichever one is relevant to the particular flavor you're going for), and you'd actually have to do this face-to-face, which takes something more than an internet tough-guy persona. Now, because this is a forum and everyone loves to be opinionated, right, and rides the highest horse in town ("I'm doing it for the good of Bitcoin itself! No cognitive dissonance here at all!"), anyone remotely associated with him is out to screw everyone else?

Get a fucking grip, all of you.
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July 25, 2012, 03:08:49 PM
 #59

I would point out you likely would not be sued for defamation.  At least not in the US.  Most people don't realize how (almost impossibly) difficult it is to win a defamation/slander suit in the SU.

The first amendment has (somehow despite the slow erosion of liberties) managed to keep the burden of proof very high.

Generally speaking (although statutes vary by state):
  • The statement must be false.
  • The defendant must know the statement is false or a reasonable person would determine the defendant should have known the statement is false.
  • The plantiff must suffer a loss (one recognized by the court as compensatable damages) as a result of the statement.
  • The plantiff must be able to quantify and prove the loss.

The burden is very high.  Plenty of people accuse other people of running Ponzi and don't get sued.   Hell some investment brokers accused Madoff of running a ponzi for YEARS before the ponzi broke.  Proving all four elements is extremely difficult even in the best circumstances.  It is possible that defamation actually occurred and yet it simply can't be proven.  I am not saying the plantiff's lawyer did a bad job, I am saing it simply not possible to prove defamation in all cases.  The Supreme Court ruled that while the high burden will allow unanswerable accusations to do otherwise would have a "chilling effect" on free speech.

Even then there are interesting carve outs like the Small Penis Rule.
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July 25, 2012, 03:36:15 PM
 #60

A bit of snark in my comment but the point is I have no emotional attachment to people who may be treating Pirate's operation as an actual investment. If a friend was going to put money in I'd say "Dude, it's a scam. That better be just be your beer money you are throwing away. Also, you're an idiot." If he was getting in on the ground floor as one of the first in and banking on being used as a marketing tool in exchange for nice profits, replace "Also, you're an idiot." with "you know better, man, that's cold".

Since this is not the case, I just give my viewpoint. I have no inside man on the operation so I can't say with absolute certainty what kind of risky venture it is: Ponzi, Money Laundering, Loan Sharking, Pass-through operation for some other scam entirely. Instead, I like many others will say don't put in money it would pain you to lose. It's like internet gambling, http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/03/us-poker-fraud-arrest-idUSBRE86200S20120703

IMO, the SEC would do a better job of breaking up more of these swindles if they had an emotional attachment to the people being suckered. Instead they filed away Madoff evidence and kept browsing porn sites.
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