Dirty coins

[DieJohnny]

I understanding why miners not filtering transactions for any reason is a good idea as it would diminish the overall fungiblity of Bitcoin.

However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.

Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.

How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!

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[Q7]

This has been discussed before after the bitstamp hack to mark the stolen coins. You might want to read it here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=929318.0

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

Isn't this the whole point of colored coins?

[polynesia]

I understanding why miners not filtering transactions for any reason is a good idea as it would diminish the overall fungiblity of Bitcoin.

However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.

Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.

How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!

Let us say you sell your car.
After that when you try to use your coins to buy something else, people say that the coins are too dirty for their liking. Wouldn't be a comfortable position, would it?

Fungibility has to be absolute.

[ajareselde]

I understanding why miners not filtering transactions for any reason is a good idea as it would diminish the overall fungiblity of Bitcoin.

However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.

Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.

How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!

Bitcoin is not created with such intentions, it would break most of its purpuse.
Anyways, it would be easily avoided by using service like bitcoinmixer..etc ?
Marking coins could also be missused and would confuse allready enough fussed bitcoin comunity.

cheers

[Kprawn]

It would also in a sense exclude coins from being used freely.

It would also in my opinion add to transaction confirmation times too, if it needs to do check to see if these coins was "Dirty" or not.

We need other alternatives to stop the nature of man to be dishonest, not bind down a technology, that should be fast and freely used. 

[NeuroticFish]

While people starts going away from Bitcoin to choose more anonymous coins, you come up with this idea

First, it's far from the purpose of Bitcoin.
Second, if somebody would want to hide this, would transfer everything to an exchange an buy altcoins before his address is blacklisted. Then the exchange will have to live with the dirty money, I guess?

[Gimpeline]

Most cash have been involved with some kind of drity transactions at some point. Are they blacklisted or marked as dirty?
Do people refuse to use them? are they destroyed?
No people still accept them, I dont see why it would be any diffrent with bitcoin

[DieJohnny]

Most cash have been involved with some kind of drity transactions at some point. Are they blacklisted or marked as dirty?
Do people refuse to use them? are they destroyed?
No people still accept them, I dont see why it would be any diffrent with bitcoin

Comparing with cash is interesting but not the same. You cannot in 1 second find out how your cash has ever been spent. However, with Bitcoin I can.

I am not saying you would transact any different with all the information about all the cash you came into contact with, but you might. For example, if you found out some of the cash being offered was stolen from your neighbor you might say no thanks.

[DieJohnny]

It would also in a sense exclude coins from being used freely.

It would also in my opinion add to transaction confirmation times too, if it needs to do check to see if these coins was "Dirty" or not.

We need other alternatives to stop the nature of man to be dishonest, not bind down a technology, that should be fast and freely used. 

The point is that this is just simply something that is so easy to do I am not sure why there is not more public interest in it. I would say that i would probably do it this early in the history of Bitcoin. I don't want to buy coins from someone on the street that just stole them from Bitstamp.

[DieJohnny]

I understanding why miners not filtering transactions for any reason is a good idea as it would diminish the overall fungiblity of Bitcoin.

However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.

Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.

How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!

Let us say you sell your car.
After that when you try to use your coins to buy something else, people say that the coins are too dirty for their liking. Wouldn't be a comfortable position, would it?

Fungibility has to be absolute.

No Fungibility does not have to be absolute. I don't have to accept CASH if I don't want to. In real life my neighbor 10 doors down can't buy ANY services from his neighbors... Not from any of the lawn mowing, house cleaning families that offer them, why.... because he is a drug dealer and everyone knows it. Nobody wants his dirty money. But the cash system moves on just fine without him.

This is really a service I want. I want an app on my phone that will tell me that you aren't a crook when I buy my bitcoins from you.

[Jakesy]

I understanding why miners not filtering transactions for any reason is a good idea as it would diminish the overall fungiblity of Bitcoin.

However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.

Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.

How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!

Let us say you sell your car.
After that when you try to use your coins to buy something else, people say that the coins are too dirty for their liking. Wouldn't be a comfortable position, would it?

Fungibility has to be absolute.

No Fungibility does not have to be absolute. I don't have to accept CASH if I don't want to. In real life my neighbor 10 doors down can't buy ANY services from his neighbors... Not from any of the lawn mowing, house cleaning families that offer them, why.... because he is a drug dealer and everyone knows it. Nobody wants his dirty money. But the cash system moves on just fine without him.

This is really a service I want. I want an app on my phone that will tell me that you aren't a crook when I buy my bitcoins from you.

Bitcoins are bitcoins.  With enough time, can't you prove that most coins are dirty or stem from a dirty address?  Just like cash that has trace amounts of drugs on it.  

This is how elitism is born...

[DieJohnny]

I understanding why miners not filtering transactions for any reason is a good idea as it would diminish the overall fungiblity of Bitcoin.

However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.

Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.

How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!

Let us say you sell your car.
After that when you try to use your coins to buy something else, people say that the coins are too dirty for their liking. Wouldn't be a comfortable position, would it?

Fungibility has to be absolute.

No Fungibility does not have to be absolute. I don't have to accept CASH if I don't want to. In real life my neighbor 10 doors down can't buy ANY services from his neighbors... Not from any of the lawn mowing, house cleaning families that offer them, why.... because he is a drug dealer and everyone knows it. Nobody wants his dirty money. But the cash system moves on just fine without him.

This is really a service I want. I want an app on my phone that will tell me that you aren't a crook when I buy my bitcoins from you.

Bitcoins are bitcoins.  With enough time, can't you prove that most coins are dirty or stem from a dirty address?  Just like cash that has trace amounts of drugs on it.  

This is how elitism is born...

Yes, almost all coins will be dirty over time. But I want to decide what that threshold is. Certainly, the capability is available right now to tell me that the coins are 100% dirty. I want to check so I don't enable evil doers directly. Maybe my threshold is 10% dirty. I get to decide.

[Jakesy]

I understanding why miners not filtering transactions for any reason is a good idea as it would diminish the overall fungiblity of Bitcoin.

However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.

Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.

How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!

Let us say you sell your car.
After that when you try to use your coins to buy something else, people say that the coins are too dirty for their liking. Wouldn't be a comfortable position, would it?

Fungibility has to be absolute.

No Fungibility does not have to be absolute. I don't have to accept CASH if I don't want to. In real life my neighbor 10 doors down can't buy ANY services from his neighbors... Not from any of the lawn mowing, house cleaning families that offer them, why.... because he is a drug dealer and everyone knows it. Nobody wants his dirty money. But the cash system moves on just fine without him.

This is really a service I want. I want an app on my phone that will tell me that you aren't a crook when I buy my bitcoins from you.

Bitcoins are bitcoins.  With enough time, can't you prove that most coins are dirty or stem from a dirty address?  Just like cash that has trace amounts of drugs on it.  

This is how elitism is born...

Yes, almost all coins will be dirty over time. But I want to decide what that threshold is. Certainly, the capability is available right now to tell me that the coins are 100% dirty. I want to check so I don't enable evil doers directly. Maybe my threshold is 10% dirty. I get to decide.

You want to quantify something that cannot be measured.  You want to measure how dirty a coin is?  What makes a coin dirty?  This will vary from person to person. 

WHO determines what constitutes a dirty coin?  Laws vary country to country... What's right in one place may not be in another.

Finally, if the coins are in your possession, why are they dirty?  The past shouldn't be tied to the present use and application of your coins.

[odolvlobo]

If you accept only coins that are not tainted in any way, then you will find that you can no longer accept any coins because all coins become tainted eventually.

[DieJohnny]

You want to quantify something that cannot be measured.  You want to measure how dirty a coin is?  What makes a coin dirty?  This will vary from person to person. 

WHO determines what constitutes a dirty coin?  Laws vary country to country... What's right in one place may not be in another.

Finally, if the coins are in your possession, why are they dirty?  The past shouldn't be tied to the present use and application of your coins.

It can be measured, if it is in the blockchain you can measure how much of your coins are indeed dirty and how many generations of transactions back it goes.

The point again is I just want an app to give me an measurement, as long as I understand the basis of the measurement then it is UP TO ME to accept the coins or not.

This is a personal decision that I want to be able to make. I do not care about the global blah blah blah. I am transacting business and I want to know that the coins I am about to purchase are not 1 generation away from a crime. Simple as that.

I realize that I will likely be using coins that have some degree of dirt embedded into them, again it is my choice how much dirt I am willing to take into my wallet.

[amspir]

The point again is I just want an app to give me an measurement, as long as I understand the basis of the measurement then it is UP TO ME to accept the coins or not.

Just curious, how do you think the social protocol would work before you do a transaction?   

"Excuse me, before I give you a bitcoin address to send your payment to, I would like to examine all the addresses in your wallet that the payment may be sent from?"

[odolvlobo]

The point again is I just want an app to give me an measurement, as long as I understand the basis of the measurement then it is UP TO ME to accept the coins or not.

Just curious, how do you think the social protocol would work before you do a transaction?   

"Excuse me, before I give you a bitcoin address to send your payment to, I would like to examine all the addresses in your wallet that the payment may be sent from?"

That is a good point. That is basically how it must work.

[R2D221]

Bitcoin was created for the purpose of being a currency. Why do you want it to be a judiciary?

It's the police's job to follow the connections between transactions and arrest the person who wants to buy a car with stolen money... or does he? What if he is innocent but happened to receive a payment from other person (and this one was related to the crime)? Finding who's to blame can't be just programmed in a protocol.

[arallmuus]

You want to quantify something that cannot be measured.  You want to measure how dirty a coin is?  What makes a coin dirty?  This will vary from person to person. 

WHO determines what constitutes a dirty coin?  Laws vary country to country... What's right in one place may not be in another.

Finally, if the coins are in your possession, why are they dirty?  The past shouldn't be tied to the present use and application of your coins.

It can be measured, if it is in the blockchain you can measure how much of your coins are indeed dirty and how many generations of transactions back it goes.

The point again is I just want an app to give me an measurement, as long as I understand the basis of the measurement then it is UP TO ME to accept the coins or not.

This is a personal decision that I want to be able to make. I do not care about the global blah blah blah. I am transacting business and I want to know that the coins I am about to purchase are not 1 generation away from a crime. Simple as that.

I realize that I will likely be using coins that have some degree of dirt embedded into them, again it is my choice how much dirt I am willing to take into my wallet.

isnt the purposes of bitcoin is to be a decentralized currency?
in fact you are saying that you will only accept coins that is untainted makes me wonder that it is the same as our cash money . which i believe we dont know if our cash have been through some drug dealer operation or or smuggler