Dirty coins

[Erdogan]

The general user of bitcoin will be rather pissed off, if his rightly obtained coins were not accepted somewhere because of taint. So in the aggregate, I think it will not be possible for the enemies of bitcoin to use that as a weapon. Tainting will only work as long as a great majority of users accept the taint and that their coins will at random be declared valueless. And that is not going to happen.

not true. i'd starting looking for taint as soon as courts state that they will confiscate coins which origins from a theft - i am already curious what happens to coinbase customer who have "tainted coins" (i really hate that word) AFAIK they already have lists (for someone who knows better than me: do they acept coins from a mixer without questions?.

They can't enslave you if you don't want to be enslaved.

[1714770313]

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[1714770313]

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[onemorebtc]

The general user of bitcoin will be rather pissed off, if his rightly obtained coins were not accepted somewhere because of taint. So in the aggregate, I think it will not be possible for the enemies of bitcoin to use that as a weapon. Tainting will only work as long as a great majority of users accept the taint and that their coins will at random be declared valueless. And that is not going to happen.

not true. i'd starting looking for taint as soon as courts state that they will confiscate coins which origins from a theft - i am already curious what happens to coinbase customer who have "tainted coins" (i really hate that word) AFAIK they already have lists (for someone who knows better than me: do they acept coins from a mixer without questions?.

They can't enslave you if you don't want to be enslaved.

...i prefer a technical solution like monero for that cases which has true fungibility (which means it is not possible to see if a percentage of my coins are tainted.

sometimes i need something to eat you now? and i'd hate it if my money would get confiscated. dont see a way to dont give it to them when the alternative is to go to prison (maybe you would go for me? you seem altrusitic)

[bitkilo]

The general user of bitcoin will be rather pissed off, if his rightly obtained coins were not accepted somewhere because of taint. So in the aggregate, I think it will not be possible for the enemies of bitcoin to use that as a weapon. Tainting will only work as long as a great majority of users accept the taint and that their coins will at random be declared valueless. And that is not going to happen.

not true. i'd starting looking for taint as soon as courts state that they will confiscate coins which origins from a theft - i am already curious what happens to coinbase customer who have "tainted coins" (i really hate that word) AFAIK they already have lists (for someone who knows better than me: do they acept coins from a mixer without questions?.

I wouldn't put it pass them but why would Coinbase have any right to confiscate "tainted coins", unless they are going to do all the work and hand the coins back to the exchange or wherever the coins were stolen from in the first place, i very much doubt that will happen.

For a court to rule that Coinbase can confiscate their customers coins they would have to prove that the coins will be returned to the rightful owner.

[onemorebtc]

The general user of bitcoin will be rather pissed off, if his rightly obtained coins were not accepted somewhere because of taint. So in the aggregate, I think it will not be possible for the enemies of bitcoin to use that as a weapon. Tainting will only work as long as a great majority of users accept the taint and that their coins will at random be declared valueless. And that is not going to happen.

not true. i'd starting looking for taint as soon as courts state that they will confiscate coins which origins from a theft - i am already curious what happens to coinbase customer who have "tainted coins" (i really hate that word) AFAIK they already have lists (for someone who knows better than me: do they acept coins from a mixer without questions?.

I wouldn't put it pass them but why would Coinbase have any right to confiscate "tainted coins", unless they are going to do all the work and hand the coins back to the exchange or wherever the coins were stolen from in the first place, i very much doubt that will happen.

For a court to rule that Coinbase can confiscate their customers coins they would have to prove that the coins will be returned to the rightful owner.

i did not say coinbase would confiscate.
i'd say courts do.

if you have a stolen car you have to give it back to the rightful owner. if you where paid with stolen money thats not the case.

is bitcoin a car or money

(the coinbase question is unrelated to my point about courts. just curious to hear what they do if someone has experienced it - i'd heard before that hey have lists, but dont know how they use them (or even if)) - i am in germany btw. so i dont use coinbase

[aantonopoulis]

Not entirely true, as that unspent output need never be touched.  I can move my other coins which I had in this address to another which is now clean, without touching the dirty dust that you sent me. 

It's not necessarily dust. Also, I thought we were marking addresses and not individual outputs.

There's no way to "mark" an address on the block chain, other than by sending it coin, that is, creating an unspent output to that address.  The owner of the address however never has to touch that output. 

In some sense the address is marked, but the owner hasn't spent the "dirty" money there and doesn't have to.  He can just leave it and never touch it if he/she so chooses, and still have normal access to the rest of his/her funds.   

[R2D221]

Not entirely true, as that unspent output need never be touched.  I can move my other coins which I had in this address to another which is now clean, without touching the dirty dust that you sent me. 

It's not necessarily dust. Also, I thought we were marking addresses and not individual outputs.

There's no way to "mark" an address on the block chain, other than by sending it coin, that is, creating an unspent output to that address.  The owner of the address however never has to touch that output. 

In some sense the address is marked, but the owner hasn't spent the "dirty" money there and doesn't have to.  He can just leave it and never touch it if he/she so chooses, and still have normal access to the rest of his/her funds.   

But I still have control of that dirty output. How can I prove everyone that I won't spend it?

[aantonopoulis]

But I still have control of that dirty output. How can I prove everyone that I won't spend it?

It sits there unspent.  That's the best you can do. 
All your payments to others are untainted. 

[R2D221]

But I still have control of that dirty output. How can I prove everyone that I won't spend it?

It sits there unspent.  That's the best you can do. 
All your payments to others are untainted. 

But the receiver doesn't know that. The most they can do is trust, but the whole point of Bitcoin is not needing to trust.