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Author Topic: Why can't you buy bitcoins with a debit/credit card if you can buy these credits  (Read 3322 times)
matthewh3
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July 25, 2012, 08:13:04 PM
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In the UK many people buy non-refundable gas(propane/butane) and electricity credit to power there homes.  These credits are open to charge backs and fraud too as once you have bought that gas or electricity you could claim you never received it or lost your card.  Or have they worked a work around as the gas and electricity company's are so large.  If so couldn't an exchange copy  Huh   

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matthewh3
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July 25, 2012, 09:16:43 PM
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You could go to a shop buy £100 of electric for your payment card load it on to your meter then phone Visa and say it didn't work, the cashier did it wrong, or my card broke or I lost my card.  So I want a £100 cash refund.  Only major forensic monitoring of the electricity meter could prove otherwise.  So what is the magic way power company's in the UK can sell non-refundable credits via Visa and Mastercard and bitcoin exchanges can't  Huh  Do the power company's just take a loss at fraud or is there something else included with the purchase using a debit/credit card. 

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July 25, 2012, 10:09:53 PM
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I assume you can't buy these online.  They are in person right?  The merchant isn't the gas company it is the store selling the credit and if they swipe the card then any fraud is on VISA.  VISA will contact the gas company who will repot $100 was added to your meter, they will contact the store and verify a $100 prepaid card was sold.  Then they will reverse the chargeback and if they think you are committing fraud.... well then it just gets fun.

VISA will destroy your credit report and that will likely cause other lenders to cut credit lines, close accounts, and ramp up your interest rates.   Selling Bitcoins with credit cards is easy.  Selling them online to an anonymous person isn't so easy.
matthewh3
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July 26, 2012, 09:23:27 PM
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Yeah there was a time they stopped being able to purchase gas/electric credit with a debit/credit card and it was cash only but now card purchases have been reintroduced.

edit:  there is a way to purchase it online but you have to buy/rent a card reader for your gas/electric card.

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July 26, 2012, 10:44:19 PM
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I always wondered how poker-sites can accept credit-cards, because those chips are as irreversible as bitcoins. You can buy some, go all-in, do a charge-back, and be sure they won't be confiscated afterwards.

And still those operators make enough profit to cover for cases like that, so why can't a Bitcoin exchange?
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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July 26, 2012, 10:53:22 PM
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Gross margin on poker deposits is ~40%.  40% of all money deposited gets converted into rake (profit for the house).

Of course even 40% market wouldn't work for Bitcoin. There is a market for poker @ 40% markup.  There is no legit market for bitcoins sold @ 40% markup.  So 40% markup, 100% markup 20,000% markup it wouldn't matter the only people using the "service" would be thieves and scammers. 
Valalvax
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July 28, 2012, 01:42:01 AM
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The way Blizzard handles it is if you do a chargeback on your account, they give you the money back, then they lock your account, completely unplayable until you pay them back

I figure the gas company and electric company would work the same way, come get their gas back, if you don't have enough to take they will probably rape you for all your worth, think liens and shit, electric co can easily turn off your power until you've paid up

But all of this will rape your credit score
danieldaniel
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July 28, 2012, 11:34:31 PM
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The way Blizzard handles it is if you do a chargeback on your account, they give you the money back, then they lock your account, completely unplayable until you pay them back

I figure the gas company and electric company would work the same way, come get their gas back, if you don't have enough to take they will probably rape you for all your worth, think liens and shit, electric co can easily turn off your power until you've paid up

But all of this will rape your credit score
Gas/electric companies can "rape" your credit score?

notme
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July 29, 2012, 09:25:58 PM
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The way Blizzard handles it is if you do a chargeback on your account, they give you the money back, then they lock your account, completely unplayable until you pay them back

I figure the gas company and electric company would work the same way, come get their gas back, if you don't have enough to take they will probably rape you for all your worth, think liens and shit, electric co can easily turn off your power until you've paid up

But all of this will rape your credit score
Gas/electric companies can "rape" your credit score?

Yes.  Mine is unraped, but I have friends who have had their credit destroyed by utility companies.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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Valalvax
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July 30, 2012, 06:59:16 PM
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The way Blizzard handles it is if you do a chargeback on your account, they give you the money back, then they lock your account, completely unplayable until you pay them back

I figure the gas company and electric company would work the same way, come get their gas back, if you don't have enough to take they will probably rape you for all your worth, think liens and shit, electric co can easily turn off your power until you've paid up

But all of this will rape your credit score
Gas/electric companies can "rape" your credit score?

Yes, utility companies report nonpayment just like any other business of the sort

Credit cards, phones, rental property, etc...
CoinCidental
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August 01, 2012, 06:45:23 PM
 #11

You can be screwed on  credit score for most debts

ive heard of people being refused finance  for owing money to a dvd rental company for an unpaid subscription that they just ignored

bills are bills apparently
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August 04, 2012, 10:00:51 PM
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I assume you can't buy these online.  They are in person right?  The merchant isn't the gas company it is the store selling the credit and if they swipe the card then any fraud is on VISA.  VISA will contact the gas company who will repot $100 was added to your meter, they will contact the store and verify a $100 prepaid card was sold.  Then they will reverse the chargeback and if they think you are committing fraud.... well then it just gets fun.

VISA will destroy your credit report and that will likely cause other lenders to cut credit lines, close accounts, and ramp up your interest rates.   Selling Bitcoins with credit cards is easy.  Selling them online to an anonymous person isn't so easy.

Does this mean we could sell mtgoxCodes or casascius coins or private keys in shops, because we can proove to visa we actually sold the code to the customer?

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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August 05, 2012, 09:55:26 AM
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I assume you can't buy these online.  They are in person right?  The merchant isn't the gas company it is the store selling the credit and if they swipe the card then any fraud is on VISA.  VISA will contact the gas company who will repot $100 was added to your meter, they will contact the store and verify a $100 prepaid card was sold.  Then they will reverse the chargeback and if they think you are committing fraud.... well then it just gets fun.

VISA will destroy your credit report and that will likely cause other lenders to cut credit lines, close accounts, and ramp up your interest rates.   Selling Bitcoins with credit cards is easy.  Selling them online to an anonymous person isn't so easy.

Does this mean we could sell mtgoxCodes or casascius coins or private keys in shops, because we can proove to visa we actually sold the code to the customer?

Sure.  If your chargeback rate exceeds industry standard you can expect your merchant account to be closed though.  Honestly I think if you have a physical shop you might as well just accept cash.  I mean getting the network of stores is the hard part.  If you got that demanding cash isn't much of a limitation.  Just look at GreenDot (MoneyPaks).  GreenDot could allow their cards to be purchased with credit cards.  Of course that means their cost would rise by the credit card discount rate, less merchants would sell them (high chargebacks hurts the merchant's account) and they would need to factor in the inevitable rise in fraud plus investigation costs into their product.

They accept only cash and sell nearly a billion dollars a year worth of code. 
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