Quickseller vs Legendster

[legendster]

So I sent a message to this Quickseller guy and this is how it went.

Hello,

So you have anything to say to me ?
Because I suggest, that if you think you have anything against me you hash it out with me here first before immaturely trying to ruin my lending thread with your theories.

I know what you are trying to do, it is a good thing but you are trying to fill into really big shoes, the first step towards actually becoming who you are planning to become here - which is a Vod alternative - you first have to become sensible and be willing to reason.

So if you have any kind of personal emotions against the way I conduct my business I suggest you keep those emotions suppressed until you actually have some proof to back up your theories.

I find your last comment about me running away with someone's collateral on MY lending thread very childish.

This message isnt a threat or warning, just a friendly suggestion that you should just let me be and stray far away from my business or in fact do quite the opposite and watch everything that I do and actually use your head to derive logical conclusion instead of wild accusations - I am allergic to the later ones.

~
Logan

You are both trying to take out a 60 BTC loan to buy something that is worth well under .1 BTC and are lending out money at the same time. This is very fishy to me.

Considering that my history is clean your vague threats are not going to scare me.

You also are telling people to change their trust settings to make you appear to have massive amounts of trust when you do not

All right, lets take it public then.

I dont think this kid is a proper evaluator or is qualified enough to evaluate a popular faucet.

Also instead of actually reading my JAM application which would actually fund for 70% of the listed price he is constantly banging his head that I am asking for a 60 bTC loan - which I am not! I also didnt set the price of this faucet it was the seller's price and based on the amount of traffic his sites gets it has been evaluated to be quite expensive.

Now if someone is here who has a better set of evaluation skills and actually thinks that the puddle network is not worth what the seller is asking for then I am open to suggestion  but according to me this kid is acting immaturely.

Details about the faucet purchase is all written here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=952197.0

Then it boils down to his trust ratings, Yes I see that he has a few positive reps and a ton of negative reps, the negative ones are offcourse from scammers and other idiots who he busted but MOST of the positive ones are from people with almost no trade history or reps, and seeing how he sells forum accounts I wouldnt be surprised if those are his own shill accounts. This doesnt mean that he doesnt have a good rep but basically he has not dealt with or accused someone legit like me and fails to understand the consequences of a negative report from a legit guy.

He went to the extent of going to my lending thread where I offer maximum 1 BTC to lend and is warning people to not trust me with their collateral as I will run away with their collateral... that really ticked me off. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=953547.0 (the comment has since been deleted and a modified term of using a trusted escrow has since been added which is an unnecessary complication for small loans)

So my question to other sensible users here who have been around here longer than me or at least as long as  have is that do I take a risk and report this idiot by posting a negative on his trust score ? - This would indefinitely get me 1 red as well but would it be worth it ? As of yet I dont have a bone to pick with this guy but I feel its gonna happen eventually.

Or do I do my best to ignore his whimsical existence ?

[Quickseller]

Almost anyone that is not outright offering/willing to use escrow is almost certain to be 100% scamming, period. Even the most trusted members of the forum offer the use of a neutral third party escrow service when soliciting trades with others.

The faucet that you claim to want to buy is not worth 60 BTC, which is the amount you are requesting, it does not matter that the loan will fund at a lower amount, if enough lenders are stupid enough to lend you 60 BTC then that is how much you will receive.

The seller of the faucet was trying to get a scammy loan using his faucets as collateral. His faucets are not worth .1 BTC altogether, let alone whatever amount he was claiming they were worth. I am not even going to try to do the math to determine how many users would need to visit the faucets every day for it to potentially have that much revenue, however the numbers are just not realistic. It is a well known fact that running faucets are simply not profitable, especially not to that scale.

Asking for collateral upfront when lending funds is a trend that scammers try in order to steal from their potential borrowers. Anyone who has legit intentions of actually lending should have no problem with a trusted escrow holding collateral, and when other lenders neglect to include this option in their OP, I have never seen any lender having any issue with either myself or someone else making the statement that all collateral should be held by a trusted third party. The fact that this person has negative trust is an indication that collateral is likely to be stolen in the event it is sent directly to him.

For the record the OP has a self moderated thread and deleted my comment about the importance of all collateral being held by a third party, and the only reason why I did not give him negative trust for such deletion is that he quoted my post and agreed that he would not have an issue with having collateral being held by escrow (although he did make a snide comment that my suggest was the stupidest thing he has ever heard)

Additionally I have seen this person, on numerous occasions tell potential trading partners to modify their trust settings to have a trust depth set to "4" in order to get a "more accurate" reading of his trust. Having a trust depth of this much is not reliable and is very easily to manipulate, and this suggest is in itself scammy.    

edit: I see that he has since deleted his post agreeing to have all collateral held by escrow

[michaeladair]

Why not just make and build a faucet yourself? I can help :p

[koshgel]

You are asking for a large sum of money WITHOUT collateral which is one of the lending section rules. You should be getting negged based on that.

Don't see how Quickseller overreacted.

[Blazed]

You are asking for a large sum of money WITHOUT collateral which is one of the lending section rules. You should be getting negged based on that.

Don't see how Quickseller overreacted.

Collateral is a Suggestion not a Rule...I lend without it from time to time. It is the lenders choice if they require collateral to lend or not.

[Quickseller]

You are asking for a large sum of money WITHOUT collateral which is one of the lending section rules. You should be getting negged based on that.

Don't see how Quickseller overreacted.

Collateral is a Suggestion not a Rule...I lend without it from time to time. It is the lenders choice if they require collateral to lend or not.

Would you be willing to lend him 60 BTC without collateral? If someone were to lend him that much, what do you think the chances are that he would repay the loan (be sure to look at his trust first)?

[koshgel]

You are asking for a large sum of money WITHOUT collateral which is one of the lending section rules. You should be getting negged based on that.

Don't see how Quickseller overreacted.

Collateral is a Suggestion not a Rule...I lend without it from time to time. It is the lenders choice if they require collateral to lend or not.

The rule of "No Collateral, No Loan" means that in order to get a loan you must give collateral that is equal, or preferably higher to the amount you are being loaned.

If you completely ignore this sticky and make a loan request with no collateral, without having massive trust on the forum, the chances of you getting negative trusted feedback and therefore having a Trade with Extreme Caution tag is almost 100%.

Seems more like a rule than a suggestion.

[legendster]

You are asking for a large sum of money WITHOUT collateral which is one of the lending section rules. You should be getting negged based on that.

Don't see how Quickseller overreacted.

Collateral is a Suggestion not a Rule...I lend without it from time to time. It is the lenders choice if they require collateral to lend or not.

Would you be willing to lend him 60 BTC without collateral? If someone were to lend him that much, what do you think the chances are that he would repay the loan (be sure to look at his trust first)?

Are you an idiot ?

Did you overlook the part where I say its MANDATORY to ESCROW ALL COLLATERAL on my lending thread ? Isnt the idea of a self moderated thread based on to reduce clutter from trolls such as yourself ?

Also which part of I AM NOT ASKING FOR a 60 BTC LOAN you dint get ? Its a JAM listing !! One can invest from a few satoshis upto as much as one desires!



And yes by all means LOOK at my trust.


-edit-
When I ask people to set their trust depth to 4 it is generally for them to have an idea of most my ENTIRE trade history and not just the ones that show up as default. I didnt say that to rip someone off I said that on numerous occasions to NEWBIES who had no idea how the trust system works and if they were going to judge me based on the trust system they should take a look at my ENTIRE reputation history and not just a few.

[legendster]

Why not just make and build a faucet yourself? I can help :p

Offcourse building a faucet is a hundred times cheaper than trying to buy an established faucet, but you do know there are added costs and implications when you have a brand new faucet that no one knows about, but in case of the puddle network it was already listed on landofbitcoins and faucetbox.

When it comes to making money from a faucet you have to ensure that the revenue generated from the adverts is sufficient enough to keep the websites running profitably.

[Blazed]

You are asking for a large sum of money WITHOUT collateral which is one of the lending section rules. You should be getting negged based on that.

Don't see how Quickseller overreacted.

Collateral is a Suggestion not a Rule...I lend without it from time to time. It is the lenders choice if they require collateral to lend or not.

Would you be willing to lend him 60 BTC without collateral? If someone were to lend him that much, what do you think the chances are that he would repay the loan (be sure to look at his trust first)?

No I wouldn't lend him that much. I was just pointing out that collateral is optional was all. I think it should be used most of the time, but it is a choice not a rule.

[Quickseller]

You are asking for a large sum of money WITHOUT collateral which is one of the lending section rules. You should be getting negged based on that.

Don't see how Quickseller overreacted.

Collateral is a Suggestion not a Rule...I lend without it from time to time. It is the lenders choice if they require collateral to lend or not.

Would you be willing to lend him 60 BTC without collateral? If someone were to lend him that much, what do you think the chances are that he would repay the loan (be sure to look at his trust first)?

Are you an idiot ?

No, I actually have well above intelligence quotient. Thank you for allowing me to bring this up.

Did you overlook the part where I say its MANDATORY to ESCROW ALL COLLATERAL on my lending thread ?

I do see that you have changed your OP on your lending thread to reflect this. This still does not change the fact that you deleted my warning to have collateral held by a trusted third party.

EDIT: I do see that you did make an edit to reflect that escrow will be used prior to creating this thread so I will remove my trust about you deleting my comment about having all collateral being held by a trusted third party. You are however still asking for a 60 BTC loan without collateral despite your dispute about this fact

Isnt the idea of a self moderated thread based on to reduce clutter from trolls such as yourself ?

There is very little legit reason to have a self moderated thread. People with negative trust should really not have the ability to start self moderated threads. I understand that people with scammer tags were not able to edit their posts when scammer tags were around.

Also which part of I AM NOT ASKING FOR a 60 BTC LOAN you dint get ? Its a JAM listing !! One can invest from a few satoshis upto as much as one desires!

Yes you are. Just because you would get the loan from several lenders does not mean you are asking for any less amount of money.

And yes by all means LOOK at my trust.

It looks like you have two negative reports.

[legendster]

Well above intelligence quotient ?? I doubt that.

On my Lending thread your opinion is not more important than mine, I originally had a un moderated thread which you and another user were simply using to increase your post count, hey I did that myself when I was new but I dont want that in my thread where I want to invest and make profit. I dont want you there and I follow all the general guidelines to protect myself AND the borrower, if you have a problem with my lending thread or my self moderation, then CREATE A NEW THREAD !

There is very little legit reason to have a self moderated thread.

But there are at least a FEW legit reasons to have a self moderated thread. go do your history research about this forum with your above the par intelligence quotient and maybe you will grasp the reasons.

I am NOT asking for a 60 BTC loan, I am just asking for what the seller has asked for, if you never used BTC jam then dont try to meddle your nose into it.
If I posted a 30 BTC request and IF it reached only 25 BTC I would still be short of the actual amount which I would need to complete the purchase. I would then have to re launch ANOTHER listing to fill up the gap and the seller might never actually wait around for me to fund 2 separate listings.

AND why just 2 reports ? Wont you open my entire untrusted history and look at ALL the negative reports I have from idiots and scammers ?

[Quickseller]

You are asking for a large sum of money WITHOUT collateral which is one of the lending section rules. You should be getting negged based on that.

Don't see how Quickseller overreacted.

Collateral is a Suggestion not a Rule...I lend without it from time to time. It is the lenders choice if they require collateral to lend or not.

Would you be willing to lend him 60 BTC without collateral? If someone were to lend him that much, what do you think the chances are that he would repay the loan (be sure to look at his trust first)?

No I wouldn't lend him that much. I was just pointing out that collateral is optional was all. I think it should be used most of the time, but it is a choice not a rule.

You are correct, collateral is optional (it is a free market right). However I think you would also agree that the majority of people who are asking for no collateral loans have no intention of repaying if they get their loan (or are trying to build up confidence and eventually take out a large loan they will not repay).

[legendster]

You are asking for a large sum of money WITHOUT collateral which is one of the lending section rules. You should be getting negged based on that.

Don't see how Quickseller overreacted.

Collateral is a Suggestion not a Rule...I lend without it from time to time. It is the lenders choice if they require collateral to lend or not.

Would you be willing to lend him 60 BTC without collateral? If someone were to lend him that much, what do you think the chances are that he would repay the loan (be sure to look at his trust first)?

No I wouldn't lend him that much. I was just pointing out that collateral is optional was all. I think it should be used most of the time, but it is a choice not a rule.

You are correct, collateral is optional (it is a free market right). However I think you would also agree that the majority of people who are asking for no collateral loans have no intention of repaying if they get their loan (or are trying to build up confidence and eventually take out a large loan they will not repay).

Though that question was not for me, but off course I would agree that MAJORITY of the people/scammers would do that. But it is also true that there is a LARGE number of new users joining this forum who actually have no intentions of scamming anyone.
They need to earn the trust and repaying loans is the best way to do that.


-edit-

Who's to say that you arent here for a long con yourself ? Trying to gain the trust of the community passively and someday pull a heist on all of us and scam someone for some big amount!

Off course I am not saying that you are here to do that but THAT IS A POSSIBILITY. How would you feel if someone judged you based on that pretext ?

[Quickseller]

Well above intelligence quotient ?? I doubt that.

I am not on trial here, you are. By creating this thread you are soliciting the support of the community to back you up to show that you are not a scammer.

On my Lending thread your opinion is not more important than mine, I originally had a un moderated thread which you and another user were simply using to increase your post count, hey I did that myself when I was new but I dont want that in my thread where I want to invest and make profit. I dont want you there and I follow all the general guidelines to protect myself AND the borrower, if you have a problem with my lending thread or my self moderation, then CREATE A NEW THREAD !

The new thread will not necessarily be read as much as the self moderated thread. This is especially the case for lending threads. No one is realistically going to post in a thread that I created to ask you for a loan.

There is very little legit reason to have a self moderated thread.

But there are at least a FEW legit reasons to have a self moderated thread. go do your history research about this forum with your above the par intelligence quotient and maybe you will grasp the reasons.

I can say that I have my own self moderated lending thread of my own. However I am extremely conservative  with my moderation. I am fairly certain that the number of people that have created self moderated threads for non-scammy reasons in the marketplace sections is extremely small. I probably could count them on my fingers and toes, there are over 92k topics in the marketplace. The vast majority of self moderated thread in the marketplace are started by scammers, and the major reason to have a self moderated thread is to keep away the spammers, as in people who are getting paid to post and add nothing of value to the thread. Deleting a post that is trolling is not a valid reason to delete a post in the vast majority of circumstances (in order for it to be potentially a valid reason, they would need to have made their point a number of times)

I am NOT asking for a 60 BTC loan, I am just asking for what the seller has asked for, if you never used BTC jam then dont try to meddle your nose into it.
If I posted a 30 BTC request and IF it reached only 25 BTC I would still be short of the actual amount which I would need to complete the purchase. I would then have to re launch ANOTHER listing to fill up the gap and the seller might never actually wait around for me to fund 2 separate listings.

If you are going to receive 60 BTC (minus the fee of the platform) from a loan if/when it become fully funded then you are asking for a 60 BTC loan. The asking price of what you are buying does not matter.

AND why just 2 reports ? Wont you open my entire untrusted history and look at ALL the negative reports I have from idiots and scammers ?

Untrusted trade history is just that, it is not trusted, I do not give any value to it. I will review it for potential legit scam allegations that have not yet been publicly reported, however other then that it will hold zero weight for me. Having one trusted negative feedback is likely more then what most scammers have.

[legendster]

You are a very confused person. You want everyone here to follow your steps ? To conduct themselves how YOU conduct yourself ? Which is completely mundane off course that would land you in hot waters my friend.

If you actually understood how business in real world is done then you would understand that not everyone is sitting on a cash bed just ready to invest at a moment's notice and MOST businesses are backed by multiple investors where the reputation of the borrower and the business is taken into consideration.

I have said what I wanted to say and your idiocy and hypocrisy here is now evident for everyone to witness and judge.

Why dont you show us how trust worthy you really are by being the escrow for my borrowers with collateral on my lending thread ?


If not, then good luck with your idiotic vigilantism I am sure you will turn out to be either a great failure or quite the opposite, chances for the later to happen are slim though.

[Quickseller]

You are a very confused person. You want everyone here to follow your steps ? To conduct themselves how YOU conduct yourself ? Which is completely mundane off course that would land you in hot waters my friend.

This is very vague, and I really don't see the point you are trying to make in this statement.

If you actually understood how business in real world is done then you would understand that not everyone is sitting on a cash bed just ready to invest at a moment's notice and MOST businesses are backed by multiple investors where the reputation of the borrower and the business is taken into consideration.

If capital is not available to a business then they will not make the investment. There is a reason why your loan has not funded on BTCjam yet (as well as why the funding commitment is so little).

I have said what I wanted to say and your idiocy and hypocrisy here is now evident for everyone to witness and judge.

TBH you are starting to sound a lot like TECHSHARE and a lot of people have lost a lot of respect for him for how he has acted recently (despite his actual solid trading history - verses your lack thereof)

Why dont you show us how trust worthy you really are by being the escrow for my borrowers with collateral on my lending thread ?

Making this a requirement would generally be a conflict of interest. My point is that someone who is trusted should be holding collateral. Your negative trust that you left me implies that you would not seriously ask me to escrow for you.

If not, then good luck with your idiotic vigilantism I am sure you will turn out to be either a great failure or quite the opposite, chances for the later to happen are slim though.

I have been pretty successful in finding and pointing out scams so far. I have been told by a number of people that the reason scammers hate me is because they are afraid of me

[legendster]

Scammers might be afraid of you I am not, get that embedded into your head. I have my personal details including my pan card and residential address with admins of this forum, if I were here to scam I wouldnt be as open about any of my dealings or my identity here on this forum.

and Cut the crap, I am seriously asking you to escrow. Show us how serious you are.

*Also, If I dont see any community interest in funding my loan that would also point out that my analysis of the puddle network is inaccurate and there is no way that it can sustain itself AND pay off the loan with which it was bought for.

[Quickseller]

Scammers might be afraid of you I am not, get that embedded into your head.

Okay

Cut the crap, I am seriously asking you to escrow. Show us how serious you are.

I have my doubts, however depending on what you ask me to hold I may be willing to help. There area number of others willing to help as well.

*Also, If I dont see any community interest in funding my loan that would also point out that my analysis of the puddle network is inaccurate and there is no way that it can sustain itself AND pay off the loan with which it was bought for.

Correct. Right now a total of less then .2 of your loan has been funded including multiple investments from two people (strange)

[legendster]

*Also, If I dont see any community interest in funding my loan that would also point out that my analysis of the puddle network is inaccurate and there is no way that it can sustain itself AND pay off the loan with which it was bought for.

Correct. Right now a total of less then .2 of your loan has been funded including multiple investments from two people (strange)

Welcome to BTCJAM.