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Author Topic: If I sell my bitcoins do I have to pay vat on them ?  (Read 6150 times)
puttyking
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February 13, 2015, 06:49:12 PM
#1

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?
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February 13, 2015, 06:51:47 PM
#2

Where do you live? I suspect Europe? In the US we have to pay capitol gains tax on the gain in value. But value added taxes are different and depends on your country.

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February 13, 2015, 07:09:48 PM
#3

I live in europe. There are two taxes vat and income tax. About the income tax thats not a problem its obvious to pay it when you receive any sum of money given that you jump the quota. But vat I am not sure what I understand business pay vat when they sell a service or goods but if you sell your bitcoins does it fall under this catagory and need to declare it to vat department ?
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February 13, 2015, 11:36:38 PM
#4

If you are talking about capital gains taxes, then it depends on your country and how long you've owned the coins.

UK, for example, gains are taxed as income but not until the first 」10,400. So unless you have more than that it gains, you don't have anything to report or pay. Germany taxes short-term gains, but anything over a year is exempt.

For VAT, if you sell something, you don't pay VAT you charge it. VAT is a tax added onto the price a consumer pays when purchasing from a VAT registered business. It is a pass-through tax that eventually goes to the government.

As an individual, you aren't VAT registered, and even if you were by running a business you still don't pay VAT on selling item, your buyers would pay it.

The whole "do Bitcoins sales incur VAT" question is currently being questioned in the EU courts (see http://www.bitcoin.se/2014/12/06/update-on-vat-case-in-eu-court-of-justice/) so we'll have to wait and see.


https://bitcoin.tax - calculate taxes for Bitcoin and digital-currencies
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February 13, 2015, 11:43:42 PM
#5

I think you are subject to capital gains tax in Europe. In some countries, you are exempt from capital gains tax when you hold the asset for more than 5 years.
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February 15, 2015, 02:41:32 PM
#6

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

Don't do this. Don't sell bitcoins. And don't pay taxes. Just use bitcoins as a currency. Buy and sell with bitcoins. And fuck banks and goverments.

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February 15, 2015, 09:57:52 PM
#7

Totally up to you if you want to apy taxes on them and declare your earnings. If you want to jsut buy good and stuff on-line then tax already paid on them as in VAT on goods. But if you are becoming self employed etc and want to earn an income from it then it is good advise to see an accountant and get your taxes in order.Depending on how much you earn you don't have to pay on it. All comes down to how much you are earning with it and are within that limit. if within the limit of earnings then it is not needed to be paid however if it goes over that limit then it is needed to be paid on. Also depends where you are too as each place is different on tax and earnings.

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February 16, 2015, 04:02:33 PM
#8

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

Don't do this. Don't sell bitcoins. And don't pay taxes. Just use bitcoins as a currency. Buy and sell with bitcoins. And fuck banks and goverments.

OP should keep a copy of this for his defense in court. "Your honor, I am not subject to the laws of my country. My online tax consultant tells me I don't have to pay taxes."

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February 21, 2015, 08:27:31 PM
#9

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

Don't do this. Don't sell bitcoins. And don't pay taxes. Just use bitcoins as a currency. Buy and sell with bitcoins. And fuck banks and goverments.

OP should keep a copy of this for his defense in court. "Your honor, I am not subject to the laws of my country. My online tax consultant tells me I don't have to pay taxes."

also dependent on where one is from tho as laws and tax are different in lots parts of the world but most follow same sort of ruling but just done a little differently.

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February 23, 2015, 12:03:10 PM
#10

If you are talking about capital gains taxes, then it depends on your country and how long you've owned the coins.

UK, for example, gains are taxed as income but not until the first 」10,400. So unless you have more than that it gains, you don't have anything to report or pay. Germany taxes short-term gains, but anything over a year is exempt.

For VAT, if you sell something, you don't pay VAT you charge it. VAT is a tax added onto the price a consumer pays when purchasing from a VAT registered business. It is a pass-through tax that eventually goes to the government.

As an individual, you aren't VAT registered, and even if you were by running a business you still don't pay VAT on selling item, your buyers would pay it.

The whole "do Bitcoins sales incur VAT" question is currently being questioned in the EU courts (see http://www.bitcoin.se/2014/12/06/update-on-vat-case-in-eu-court-of-justice/) so we'll have to wait and see.



This is the best answer. I was reading about it months ago and came up with the same thing. You'd be interested in VAT only if you had a registered BTC trading business.

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February 24, 2015, 07:30:26 AM
#11

it may depends on your country
in my country we are not charged any tax for  selling my bitcoins
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February 24, 2015, 11:54:56 PM
#12

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

There could be several opinions that make sence, but only to be proven wrong later on, so best pick up your phone, and call your local IRS department, they wont bite.
If you dont want to do that, just go to your county's subforum here and find someone to sell them to, there will allways be takers, that way ure safe, exchange while having a beer and ure done.

cheers

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February 26, 2015, 10:33:30 AM
#13

It depends on the country you live in.
EU does not have any rules about BTC.

There is no tax at all in Denmark for BTC Tongue

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March 04, 2015, 10:02:05 PM
#14

It depends on the country you live in.
EU does not have any rules about BTC.

There is no tax at all in Denmark for BTC Tongue
Are you sure?
in sweden , we have to tax all profits from whatever it is. ( we even have special rules for bitcoin )
However , my question to you guys if i never sell my bitcoins , do i ever have to pay taxes? i mean , the goverment cant force me to use money and they prolly wont take btc as taxes.. : p
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March 18, 2015, 03:50:55 AM
#15

It depends on the country you live in.
EU does not have any rules about BTC.

There is no tax at all in Denmark for BTC Tongue
Are you sure?
in sweden , we have to tax all profits from whatever it is. ( we even have special rules for bitcoin )
However , my question to you guys if i never sell my bitcoins , do i ever have to pay taxes? i mean , the goverment cant force me to use money and they prolly wont take btc as taxes.. : p

Every EU country seems to have different tax approaches. In Germany there's no capital gains tax on BTC if you hold for a year. That's totally different elsewhere.

In the US if you spend BTC that you've gained on you still have to declare that gain and pay tax on it. I've no idea how they prove that. I guess it'll all be defined clearly in the years to come.

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March 18, 2015, 12:37:54 PM
#16

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

Don't do this. Don't sell bitcoins. And don't pay taxes. Just use bitcoins as a currency. Buy and sell with bitcoins. And fuck banks and goverments.
Oh, and what do you want to eat? ASICminers or ciggarettes or drugs? You can't affor everyday food with bitcoins anywhere...YET.

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March 18, 2015, 07:28:08 PM
#17

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

Don't do this. Don't sell bitcoins. And don't pay taxes. Just use bitcoins as a currency. Buy and sell with bitcoins. And fuck banks and goverments.
Oh, and what do you want to eat? ASICminers or ciggarettes or drugs? You can't affor everyday food with bitcoins anywhere...YET.

You certainly can if you use services like gyft to exchange coins for gift cards. A bit of a roundabout route but it allows that to happen.

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March 29, 2015, 01:47:19 AM
#18

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

I thought VAT is levied automatically and the exchange pays it? Well i never thought about it that they make you pay it after all its a  passive tax.

Well anyway consult a lawyer to make sure.

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March 29, 2015, 07:20:34 AM
#19

It depends on the country you live in.
EU does not have any rules about BTC.

There is no tax at all in Denmark for BTC Tongue

some country does have rules about bitcoin, uk for example is approaching taxation, i know there are other, where you need to pay tax/vat

it really depend on when OP live
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April 11, 2015, 07:59:09 AM
#20

I think you are subject to capital gains tax in Europe. In some countries, you are exempt from capital gains tax when you hold the asset for more than 5 years.
It depends on them amount OP is selling, if for example  he is selling like $100-500 worth of bitcoin then he shouldn't bother at all. Just make sure to ask a tax attorney for advice.

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April 11, 2015, 11:03:14 PM
#21

VAT is usually paid when you buy things isnt it? I mean its an indirect tax and its incorporated into the price...  Tongue

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October 23, 2017, 05:35:50 PM
#22

For the time being there is not, although it depends on the country of residence, so far the crypto currency is not regulated, I hope it will not be ...

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October 23, 2017, 06:02:38 PM
#23

Anyway! By increasing the value of bitcoin, there is an increase in profits! Accordingly, it is considered as additional income! Appropriately need to pay income tax!

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October 23, 2017, 06:28:22 PM
#24

As soon as You request transactions with bitcoins You find yourself under close control by both the tax service and Federal financial monitoring service. The current legislation in force that does not define the status of crypto-currencies until provides for tax control system at a profit from them. In that case, if You are transferring them into rubles and legalsuite in Russia, You will need with the amount received to calculate and pay personal income tax, the main difficulty here will be to indicate the origin of the income.
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October 24, 2017, 12:07:34 AM
#25

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

The VAT system only works if you buy something from a retailer or a shop, a product or a service using bitcoins. Due to bitcoin's decentralized nature, not even the government can regulate it, thus imposing tax would be impossible. Personally, there is no need for you to declare any VAT since it did not involve any transaction to a third party using bitcoins as a payment. Though it may be a case-to-case basis depending on your country, but I think it is not needed.

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October 24, 2017, 05:43:15 AM
#26

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

where are you living actually tax completely depends on that country rules and regulations so you have to keep hold you are bit coin in a wallet. then after try to sell it. but it is depends on country tax only. in my country i have to pay tax really it is very high in my country. if suppose how much your bit coin price like it's price high then you have to pay high tax your bit coin price is low then you have to pay low tax. so tax depends on your earning.
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October 24, 2017, 07:41:31 AM
#27

If they require you to pay for tax, then pay. You can't oppose them since it a law and you need to comply with their law. But for as long as they are not requiring you to pay, then you are not obliged to do so. Youre fine. Some countries requires declaration of assets. But only public servants are obliged to do this, not citizens. Unless you did something bad like involvement in a corruption. Anyway, government will soon impose taxes to every users who trades bitcoin. That's for sure. So enjoy Bitcoin while it's tax free. There's no law yet created for taxation of bitcoin. Also once you sold your Bitcoin to fiat. You already paid you tax which the exchange get for every bitcoin you sold. Now, exchange will use it to pay tax.

   
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October 24, 2017, 10:17:13 AM
#28

If they require you to pay for tax, then pay. You can't oppose them since it a law and you need to comply with their law. But for as long as they are not requiring you to pay, then you are not obliged to do so. Youre fine. Some countries requires declaration of assets. But only public servants are obliged to do this, not citizens. Unless you did something bad like involvement in a corruption. Anyway, government will soon impose taxes to every users who trades bitcoin. That's for sure. So enjoy Bitcoin while it's tax free. There's no law yet created for taxation of bitcoin. Also once you sold your Bitcoin to fiat. You already paid you tax which the exchange get for every bitcoin you sold. Now, exchange will use it to pay tax.

Depending on how the country you are trading on how they view bitcoin. Because their are countries that doesnt really accept bitcoin as any asset but still allows trading. Although i am not sure op is pertaining to vat on exchange sites but if it is transfering from wallet to wallet, i think it is just the fee that is to be paid, but if trying to convert to fiat, then it really has taxes especially if it is to be deemed as a form of income.

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October 24, 2017, 11:30:35 AM
#29

VAT paying legal entity. Also the VAT you pay in the event that buy goods abroad and import it to his country. Bitcoin trading has nothing to do with this tax are irrelevant. You have to pay only income tax and then only if you are changing the bitcoins to Fiat.

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October 24, 2017, 12:24:52 PM
#30

VAT is usually paid when you buy things isnt it? I mean its an indirect tax and its incorporated into the price...  Tongue

You are right, well if you sold your bitcoin on some exchanges you will not pay any taxes all you have to settle is the fee that the exchanges have. Bitcoin is decentralized and i think there is no tax applicable on it maybe aside from the fees.

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October 24, 2017, 07:08:42 PM
#31

VAT is usually paid when you buy things isnt it? I mean its an indirect tax and its incorporated into the price...  Tongue

You are right, well if you sold your bitcoin on some exchanges you will not pay any taxes all you have to settle is the fee that the exchanges have. Bitcoin is decentralized and i think there is no tax applicable on it maybe aside from the fees.
You are not right. As soon as the user will get Fiat on your Bank card it will be income and hence the government will have a claim if you do not pay for it with taxes. Of course VAT to pay on income not need. It is a tax on producers which they passed on to the buyer. In some countries, the government does not control small income to the account so maybe you do not have to pay anything.

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October 30, 2017, 02:34:21 AM
#32

In my country the payment of VAT is transferrable. And you only need to file or pay for it if you are registered as a VAT business or self employed person. And then to transfer your purchases with VAT, you only need to keep the receipts and declare it as purchases regarding your business transactions.

What you need to pay, if you are really honest because it is hard to trace the government, is the personal income tax. This is every year and you declare it on your own.

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October 30, 2017, 11:07:16 AM
#33

In my country the rules are still quite unclear but right now the origin of your bitcoins is pretty important. If you bought bitcoin in 2014 and held untill now you don't have to pay taxes at all but if you actively traded in the meanwhile you have to pay quite a lot (33.3%). For the time being I'm not interested in cashing out, I hope over the course of the next few years rules will become more clear. But ideally I wouldn't want to cash my bitcoins out at all.
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October 30, 2017, 12:49:21 PM
#34

In my country the rules are still quite unclear but right now the origin of your bitcoins is pretty important. If you bought bitcoin in 2014 and held untill now you don't have to pay taxes at all but if you actively traded in the meanwhile you have to pay quite a lot (33.3%). For the time being I'm not interested in cashing out, I hope over the course of the next few years rules will become more clear. But ideally I wouldn't want to cash my bitcoins out at all.
You are right. That's why the news that Amazon will accept payment in bitcoins blew up the Internet. All the people are waiting for this. The first to make a trading platform with a wide range of products and the ability to pay with bitcoin will hit a big jackpot. It seems to me that this is not Amazon. Dealers are losing large income. I hope soon that niche will be filled.

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October 30, 2017, 02:49:49 PM
#35

VAT is usually paid when you buy things isnt it? I mean its an indirect tax and its incorporated into the price...  Tongue

You are right, well if you sold your bitcoin on some exchanges you will not pay any taxes all you have to settle is the fee that the exchanges have. Bitcoin is decentralized and i think there is no tax applicable on it maybe aside from the fees.
You are not right. As soon as the user will get Fiat on your Bank card it will be income and hence the government will have a claim if you do not pay for it with taxes. Of course VAT to pay on income not need. It is a tax on producers which they passed on to the buyer. In some countries, the government does not control small income to the account so maybe you do not have to pay anything.

In every country must have different rules about payment of income tax in this case bitcoin, maybe in my country there is no binding regulation for it so far I only charge for the payment of forex transactions either from bitcoin to fiat or vice versa.
This may be because the legality of bitcoin is not yet official in my country so there are no binding rules about taxes from bitcoin.

   
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October 31, 2017, 09:11:49 PM
#36

In the case of my country, you only pay VAT when you are registered as a self-employed or a business owner that is registered for VAT. And with that, if you are not registered as VAT, what you need to pay is the personal income tax which is usually filed and paid once a year. But if you are VAT registered, the filing must be done both monthly and quarterly. This is the case in the Philippines.

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November 01, 2017, 06:50:42 AM
#37

In the case of my country, you only pay VAT when you are registered as a self-employed or a business owner that is registered for VAT. And with that, if you are not registered as VAT, what you need to pay is the personal income tax which is usually filed and paid once a year. But if you are VAT registered, the filing must be done both monthly and quarterly. This is the case in the Philippines.

There are different kinds of VAT, most of it were added in our foods and clothes. There are vat that deducted from our salary and there also vat in paying services. So VAT is everywhere. Though bitcoin dont have direct vat, still there is the transactions fees we're paying.
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November 01, 2017, 08:09:30 AM
#38

I dont think you need to pay anything. In fact, you can have it all stay online and just use xapo or bitpay cards to use your crypto for your everyday expenses.

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November 01, 2017, 10:17:16 AM
#39

what is the difference betweem selling it and claim it?? it also can direct to your bank account
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November 01, 2017, 06:42:19 PM
#40

If you are operating as a business and are a registered business which you should be if you are investing over a certain amount every year then you are required to pay vat.
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November 10, 2017, 12:03:37 AM
#41

VAT is usually paid when you buy things isnt it? I mean its an indirect tax and its incorporated into the price...  Tongue

Yeah right, but in my personal experience when i converted my btc into fiat money, I am not paying any taxes aside from the fees that my wallet implemented. I think the company of my wallet those are the one paying taxes through my fees.
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November 10, 2017, 06:45:56 AM
#42

On me personally, I pay for it. When I want to selling bitcoin that I will selling it, on the web site that I use already available pieces for the vat, so after sold to the regular currency.. it's has includes vat piece. I consider this as a tax or obligation to be paid, and it's indeed fair to do. I use "Triv" web site.

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November 10, 2017, 07:51:25 AM
#43

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?
No there is no taxed imposed on that only need to pay is transaction fees. I am from Philippines and i am actively selling my bitcoin because i always need money to buy milk of my kids, also my salary is not enough to sustain our expenses but all of my cash out is only transaction fee is really need it.
I do not think if in other country which bitcoin is already adopted by their government is they already imposed tax in every income of everybody.

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November 10, 2017, 08:54:23 AM
#44

VAT is usually paid when you buy things isnt it? I mean its an indirect tax and its incorporated into the price...  Tongue

Yeah right, but in my personal experience when i converted my btc into fiat money, I am not paying any taxes aside from the fees that my wallet implemented. I think the company of my wallet those are the one paying taxes through my fees.
Same here on my side on where my local exchange wallet provider doesn't charge or get any taxes from its users aside on the network fee which means you can totally evade taxes if you do really like to since its still not regulated here or have a low regarding on imposing taxes on those bitcoin or altcoin earners. We do know that possibilities of big income do exist here on bitcoin. Its up to you if you are still willing to pay up taxes or not.



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November 12, 2017, 06:30:28 PM
#45

No its free but in the future i think they will govern bitcoin then if that's happen i think they will add tax here because the earnings here is like in real life so i think we need that.There's a lot of conveniece that bitcoin brings so a little tax is ok if question me in that kinds of situation like adding tax here

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November 13, 2017, 06:48:31 AM
#46

No its free but in the future i think they will govern bitcoin then if that's happen i think they will add tax here because the earnings here is like in real life so i think we need that.There's a lot of conveniece that bitcoin brings so a little tax is ok if question me in that kinds of situation like adding tax here

I think your question is highly subjective and is entirely dependent on your governments officials. Should they elect to acknowledge Bitcoin and the earnings that people get from it, I think they have good reasons to tax it. Otherwise, they will be estopped from taxing it because you cannot tax something you do not even acknowledge in the first place.

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November 13, 2017, 11:47:28 AM
#47

Pays VAT only businesses. If you are an individual that when selling bitcoin you only pay income tax. Unfortunately most likely you will not be able to prove that you have spent a certain amount of money to purchase bitcoins. You will have to pay tax on the whole amount which goes to your account.

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