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Author Topic: If I sell my bitcoins do I have to pay vat on them ?  (Read 6138 times)
puttyking
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February 13, 2015, 06:49:12 PM
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If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?
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RodeoX
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February 13, 2015, 06:51:47 PM
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Where do you live? I suspect Europe? In the US we have to pay capitol gains tax on the gain in value. But value added taxes are different and depends on your country.

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puttyking
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February 13, 2015, 07:09:48 PM
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I live in europe. There are two taxes vat and income tax. About the income tax thats not a problem its obvious to pay it when you receive any sum of money given that you jump the quota. But vat I am not sure what I understand business pay vat when they sell a service or goods but if you sell your bitcoins does it fall under this catagory and need to declare it to vat department ?
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February 13, 2015, 11:36:38 PM
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If you are talking about capital gains taxes, then it depends on your country and how long you've owned the coins.

UK, for example, gains are taxed as income but not until the first £10,400. So unless you have more than that it gains, you don't have anything to report or pay. Germany taxes short-term gains, but anything over a year is exempt.

For VAT, if you sell something, you don't pay VAT you charge it. VAT is a tax added onto the price a consumer pays when purchasing from a VAT registered business. It is a pass-through tax that eventually goes to the government.

As an individual, you aren't VAT registered, and even if you were by running a business you still don't pay VAT on selling item, your buyers would pay it.

The whole "do Bitcoins sales incur VAT" question is currently being questioned in the EU courts (see http://www.bitcoin.se/2014/12/06/update-on-vat-case-in-eu-court-of-justice/) so we'll have to wait and see.


https://bitcoin.tax - calculate taxes for Bitcoin and digital-currencies
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February 13, 2015, 11:43:42 PM
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I think you are subject to capital gains tax in Europe. In some countries, you are exempt from capital gains tax when you hold the asset for more than 5 years.
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February 15, 2015, 02:41:32 PM
 #6

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

Don't do this. Don't sell bitcoins. And don't pay taxes. Just use bitcoins as a currency. Buy and sell with bitcoins. And fuck banks and goverments.

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February 15, 2015, 09:57:52 PM
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Totally up to you if you want to apy taxes on them and declare your earnings. If you want to jsut buy good and stuff on-line then tax already paid on them as in VAT on goods. But if you are becoming self employed etc and want to earn an income from it then it is good advise to see an accountant and get your taxes in order.Depending on how much you earn you don't have to pay on it. All comes down to how much you are earning with it and are within that limit. if within the limit of earnings then it is not needed to be paid however if it goes over that limit then it is needed to be paid on. Also depends where you are too as each place is different on tax and earnings.
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February 16, 2015, 04:02:33 PM
 #8

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

Don't do this. Don't sell bitcoins. And don't pay taxes. Just use bitcoins as a currency. Buy and sell with bitcoins. And fuck banks and goverments.

OP should keep a copy of this for his defense in court. "Your honor, I am not subject to the laws of my country. My online tax consultant tells me I don't have to pay taxes."

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February 21, 2015, 08:27:31 PM
 #9

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

Don't do this. Don't sell bitcoins. And don't pay taxes. Just use bitcoins as a currency. Buy and sell with bitcoins. And fuck banks and goverments.

OP should keep a copy of this for his defense in court. "Your honor, I am not subject to the laws of my country. My online tax consultant tells me I don't have to pay taxes."

also dependent on where one is from tho as laws and tax are different in lots parts of the world but most follow same sort of ruling but just done a little differently.
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February 23, 2015, 12:03:10 PM
 #10

If you are talking about capital gains taxes, then it depends on your country and how long you've owned the coins.

UK, for example, gains are taxed as income but not until the first £10,400. So unless you have more than that it gains, you don't have anything to report or pay. Germany taxes short-term gains, but anything over a year is exempt.

For VAT, if you sell something, you don't pay VAT you charge it. VAT is a tax added onto the price a consumer pays when purchasing from a VAT registered business. It is a pass-through tax that eventually goes to the government.

As an individual, you aren't VAT registered, and even if you were by running a business you still don't pay VAT on selling item, your buyers would pay it.

The whole "do Bitcoins sales incur VAT" question is currently being questioned in the EU courts (see http://www.bitcoin.se/2014/12/06/update-on-vat-case-in-eu-court-of-justice/) so we'll have to wait and see.



This is the best answer. I was reading about it months ago and came up with the same thing. You'd be interested in VAT only if you had a registered BTC trading business.

Zawamiya
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February 24, 2015, 07:30:26 AM
 #11

it may depends on your country
in my country we are not charged any tax for  selling my bitcoins
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February 24, 2015, 11:54:56 PM
 #12

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

There could be several opinions that make sence, but only to be proven wrong later on, so best pick up your phone, and call your local IRS department, they wont bite.
If you dont want to do that, just go to your county's subforum here and find someone to sell them to, there will allways be takers, that way ure safe, exchange while having a beer and ure done.

cheers

Hamuki
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February 26, 2015, 10:33:30 AM
 #13

It depends on the country you live in.
EU does not have any rules about BTC.

There is no tax at all in Denmark for BTC Tongue

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March 04, 2015, 10:02:05 PM
 #14

It depends on the country you live in.
EU does not have any rules about BTC.

There is no tax at all in Denmark for BTC Tongue
Are you sure?
in sweden , we have to tax all profits from whatever it is. ( we even have special rules for bitcoin )
However , my question to you guys if i never sell my bitcoins , do i ever have to pay taxes? i mean , the goverment cant force me to use money and they prolly wont take btc as taxes.. : p
gentlemand
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March 18, 2015, 03:50:55 AM
 #15

It depends on the country you live in.
EU does not have any rules about BTC.

There is no tax at all in Denmark for BTC Tongue
Are you sure?
in sweden , we have to tax all profits from whatever it is. ( we even have special rules for bitcoin )
However , my question to you guys if i never sell my bitcoins , do i ever have to pay taxes? i mean , the goverment cant force me to use money and they prolly wont take btc as taxes.. : p

Every EU country seems to have different tax approaches. In Germany there's no capital gains tax on BTC if you hold for a year. That's totally different elsewhere.

In the US if you spend BTC that you've gained on you still have to declare that gain and pay tax on it. I've no idea how they prove that. I guess it'll all be defined clearly in the years to come.

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March 18, 2015, 12:37:54 PM
 #16

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

Don't do this. Don't sell bitcoins. And don't pay taxes. Just use bitcoins as a currency. Buy and sell with bitcoins. And fuck banks and goverments.
Oh, and what do you want to eat? ASICminers or ciggarettes or drugs? You can't affor everyday food with bitcoins anywhere...YET.

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gentlemand
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March 18, 2015, 07:28:08 PM
 #17

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

Don't do this. Don't sell bitcoins. And don't pay taxes. Just use bitcoins as a currency. Buy and sell with bitcoins. And fuck banks and goverments.
Oh, and what do you want to eat? ASICminers or ciggarettes or drugs? You can't affor everyday food with bitcoins anywhere...YET.

You certainly can if you use services like gyft to exchange coins for gift cards. A bit of a roundabout route but it allows that to happen.

GreenStox
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March 29, 2015, 01:47:19 AM
 #18

If i sell my bitcoins to a site like coinbase at the end of the year do I need to declare that sale to the vat department and pay the 20% on what i received from coinbase ?

I thought VAT is levied automatically and the exchange pays it? Well i never thought about it that they make you pay it after all its a  passive tax.

Well anyway consult a lawyer to make sure.

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Amph
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March 29, 2015, 07:20:34 AM
 #19

It depends on the country you live in.
EU does not have any rules about BTC.

There is no tax at all in Denmark for BTC Tongue

some country does have rules about bitcoin, uk for example is approaching taxation, i know there are other, where you need to pay tax/vat

it really depend on when OP live
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April 11, 2015, 07:59:09 AM
 #20

I think you are subject to capital gains tax in Europe. In some countries, you are exempt from capital gains tax when you hold the asset for more than 5 years.
It depends on them amount OP is selling, if for example  he is selling like $100-500 worth of bitcoin then he shouldn't bother at all. Just make sure to ask a tax attorney for advice.

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