From holder to spender....

[Kazimir]

Can anyone confirm this?  None of the addresses can be derived by any of the other addresses?  If that really is the case then my search is over.

No, not entirely. Old, simplistic wallets use one address for multiple transactions, both sending and receiving. This is obviously bad for your privacy (and somewhat bad for other, more technical reasons as well).

HD wallets do this:

You have some coins on address A. When spending coins, you send them to merchant X, and the change (leftover) goes to a new address B. When spending coins the next time, you send them to merchant Y, and the change goes to a new address C. And so on. New HD Wallet addresses A, B, C, etc are generated on the fly upon every transaction (incoming as well as outgoing).

So, they are only linked to a certain extent. If you have 100 BTC on address A, and spend small amounts (e.g. 0.4 BTC, 0.3 BTC etc) with the change (e.g. 99.6 BTC, 99.3 BTC, etc) going to address B and C, someone can sortof guess that A, B and C probably belong together.

However if you keep small amounts in your wallet, like 1 BTC, and you spend 0.4 BTC, meaning 0.4 BTC will go to X and 0.6 BTC will go to B, people can't tell for sure which was yours: X or B? (did you spend 0.4 or 0.6?) And so on - the more transactions you do, the less likely someone is to still link it together with any degree of certainty. Within a few cycles, the expanding transaction tree becomes unmanagable and nobody will be able to tell your addresses apart from others.

If you absolutely, positively need to be 100% certain nobody can link your addresses, use a mixer. This is very easy, but not free (mixing services charge a small fee). However, in practice, you shouldn't worry about this at all. Just put small amounts on your wallet, by the time it's almost empty, add a little extra from your savings, and so on. Really, nobody will know or care.

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[bitcoinrocks]

Can anyone confirm this?  None of the addresses can be derived by any of the other addresses?  If that really is the case then my search is over.

No, not entirely. Old, simplistic wallets use one address for multiple transactions, both sending and receiving. This is obviously bad for your privacy (and somewhat bad for other, more technical reasons as well).

HD wallets do this:

You have some coins on address A. When spending coins, you send them to merchant X, and the change (leftover) goes to a new address B. When spending coins the next time, you send them to merchant Y, and the change goes to a new address C. And so on. New HD Wallet addresses A, B, C, etc are generated on the fly upon every transaction (incoming as well as outgoing).

So, they are only linked to a certain extent. If you have 100 BTC on address A, and spend small amounts (e.g. 0.4 BTC, 0.3 BTC etc) with the change (e.g. 99.6 BTC, 99.3 BTC, etc) going to address B and C, someone can sortof guess that A, B and C probably belong together.

However if you keep small amounts in your wallet, like 1 BTC, and you spend 0.4 BTC, meaning 0.4 BTC will go to X and 0.6 BTC will go to B, people can't tell for sure which was yours: X or B? (did you spend 0.4 or 0.6?) And so on - the more transactions you do, the less likely someone is to still link it together with any degree of certainty. Within a few cycles, the expanding transaction tree becomes unmanagable and nobody will be able to tell your addresses apart from others.

If you absolutely, positively need to be 100% certain nobody can link your addresses, use a mixer. This is very easy, but not free (mixing services charge a small fee). However, in practice, you shouldn't worry about this at all. Just put small amounts on your wallet, by the time it's almost empty, add a little extra from your savings, and so on. Really, nobody will know or care.

Let's say I have 100BTC in my main wallet and I want to pay people without them knowing about my main wallet.  How will an HD wallet help?  I could transfer small amounts from my main wallet to my HD wallet, but when I pay someone from my HD wallet, the inputs will come from an address funded by my main wallet every time.

[Kazimir]

Let's say I have 100BTC in my main wallet and I want to pay people without them knowing about my main wallet.  How will an HD wallet help?  I could transfer small amounts from my main wallet to my HD wallet, but when I pay someone from my HD wallet, the inputs will come from an address funded by my main wallet every time.

With Mycelium, for example, you could create two wallets: one savings (your 'main wallet), and one spending. Both will be HD (all secured with the same, single backup) and nobody will be able to tell they're linked. Whenever you transfer some small amount from your savings wallet to your spending wallet, the remainder of your savings is moved to a new address.

[manselr]

Call me a retard but I would need like about 10 BTC to feel safe enough to spend BTC without feeling horrible in 3 years.

[pitham1]

Call me a retard but I would need like about 10 BTC to feel safe enough to spend BTC without feeling horrible in 3 years.

10 BTC is a lot of money. It is tough to say how much is enough.

[AnswerQuestion]

I've been a BTC holder for about a year and a half but I'm such a miser that I've never spent any of it.  An online shop I want to place an order with accepts BTC so I'm ready to take the plunge.  I'm thinking an Android wallet with a small balance makes sense.  Any recommendations for that software?

I also don't want everyone I spend BTC with to know my main account's balance.  What is the best way to prevent that from happening?

You should not have a "main" bitcoin address. You should create a new address for every time you either send or receive bitcoin

[odolvlobo]

Call me a retard but I would need like about 10 BTC to feel safe enough to spend BTC without feeling horrible in 3 years.

If you use them you can always buy more. I guess I don't understand why people feel that the bitcoins in their wallet are more precious than all the others.

[AnswerQuestion]

Call me a retard but I would need like about 10 BTC to feel safe enough to spend BTC without feeling horrible in 3 years.

If you use them you can always buy more. I guess I don't understand why people feel that the bitcoins in their wallet are more precious than all the others.

bitcoin is fungible. The above mindset is going to cause bitcoin to potentially fail as people give certain inputs more value then others.

It is illogical to not spend bitcoin on something you are going to buy anyway but can use bitcoin to get an overall lower price

[Possum577]

How can retailers you're buying from see your bitcoin balance?

[Possum577]

Call me a retard but I would need like about 10 BTC to feel safe enough to spend BTC without feeling horrible in 3 years.

If you use them you can always buy more. I guess I don't understand why people feel that the bitcoins in their wallet are more precious than all the others.

bitcoin is fungible. The above mindset is going to cause bitcoin to potentially fail as people give certain inputs more value then others.

It is illogical to not spend bitcoin on something you are going to buy anyway but can use bitcoin to get an overall lower price

Have you seen many examples where bitcoin can get you a lower price?  If I buy something, I don't pay transaction fees. I just pay the purchase price. Are you seeing arbitrage opportunities between the USD (or fiat) and BTC price for the same item?

[Kazimir]

How can retailers you're buying from see your bitcoin balance?

They can't. They can only see the balance of the particular address you're paying from. Since any decent wallet will not re-use any address and generate new ones after every single transaction, the information they have is pretty much zero.

[odolvlobo]

How can retailers you're buying from see your bitcoin balance?

They can't. They can only see the balance of the particular address you're paying from. Since any decent wallet will not re-use any address and generate new ones after every single transaction, the information they have is pretty much zero.

With a little bit of work, anybody that knows an address in your wallet can determine a lower limit of the amount you have in the wallet at anytime. The more you reuse addresses, the closer that value is to the actual amount. Using a mixer will reduce the reliability of the value.

[AnswerQuestion]

Call me a retard but I would need like about 10 BTC to feel safe enough to spend BTC without feeling horrible in 3 years.

If you use them you can always buy more. I guess I don't understand why people feel that the bitcoins in their wallet are more precious than all the others.

bitcoin is fungible. The above mindset is going to cause bitcoin to potentially fail as people give certain inputs more value then others.

It is illogical to not spend bitcoin on something you are going to buy anyway but can use bitcoin to get an overall lower price

Have you seen many examples where bitcoin can get you a lower price?  If I buy something, I don't pay transaction fees. I just pay the purchase price. Are you seeing arbitrage opportunities between the USD (or fiat) and BTC price for the same item?

There is gyft, you would get a 3% discount here. I know that overstock has run a number of promotions offering discounts to people paying in bitcoin. There are also a number of other examples of discounts at local shops 

[ikydesu]

I'm thinking an Android wallet with a small balance makes sense.  Any recommendations for that software?

I also don't want everyone I spend BTC with to know my main account's balance.  What is the best way to prevent that from happening?

I used Mycelium for android btc wallet, user friendly, and have good features.

you can use bitmixer, check out my signature

[bitcoinrocks]

How can retailers you're buying from see your bitcoin balance?

They can't. They can only see the balance of the particular address you're paying from. Since any decent wallet will not re-use any address and generate new ones after every single transaction, the information they have is pretty much zero.

With a little bit of work, anybody that knows an address in your wallet can determine a lower limit of the amount you have in the wallet at anytime. The more you reuse addresses, the closer that value is to the actual amount. Using a mixer will reduce the reliability of the value.

I think that sums it up really well odolvlobo.  Simply using an HD wallet affords little or no extra privacy.

[GenTarkin]

I've been a BTC holder for about a year and a half but I'm such a miser that I've never spent any of it.  An online shop I want to place an order with accepts BTC so I'm ready to take the plunge.  I'm thinking an Android wallet with a small balance makes sense.  Any recommendations for that software?

I also don't want everyone I spend BTC with to know my main account's balance.  What is the best way to prevent that from happening?

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mycelium.wallet

mycelium is amazing, tx's are lightning fast, its interface is super lightweight, responsive etc..., it even works w/ HD wallets now and has a very good built in backup mechanism. Ive used it quite a bit. Never hurts to keep a few of ur spending btc in that wallet.
Even has a local trader functionality where u can look up people around u for buying / selling in person and u can easily become one urself =)

[StevenS]

Let's say I have 100BTC in my main wallet and I want to pay people without them knowing about my main wallet.  How will an HD wallet help?  I could transfer small amounts from my main wallet to my HD wallet, but when I pay someone from my HD wallet, the inputs will come from an address funded by my main wallet every time.

Using an HD wallet will typically keep you from ending up with 100BTC in a single address, but if you already have 100BTC in a single address because you were using a wallet with one address, then you'll have to use one of the suggestions above (mixer or exchange) to split your holdings.

I would start by transferring your 100BTC to an HD wallet that you will use as your "savings" wallet (i.e. don't keep this wallet on a mobile device, and make sure to properly back it up. Using a HD wallet will make sure that any time you send coins, the change will go to a newly address that isn't linked to anything else.

The transfer a smaller amount, let's say 2BTC, into the exchange of your choice. When you do that, the coins will become mixed with the rest of the users of that exchange. I would wait a day, or at least a few hours, before withdrawing to make sure it gets mixed well. Then withdraw a slightly different amount, say 1.8 BTC, to your Mycelium HD wallet to use as your "spending" wallet. Replenish this wallet to a balance that makes you comfortable.

[orsotheysaid]

I'll pass. Cant afford being a spender until i have at least 1 btc saved.

[bitcoinrocks]

I'm sure to re-buy at Coinbase any amount I send from my main wallet to my spending mobile wallet.  Easy.

[neurotypical]

I'll pass. Cant afford being a spender until i have at least 1 btc saved.

I see most people thinking like this. Can't blame them. It would be like spending gold on Kmart.