How much do you value your credit score?

[jago25_98]

i find this thread interesting as debt is not something that bitcoin addresses alot.
in particular I see people talking about trust. but in my experience its not trust these days thats the problem; its the ability to repay. its gambling; typically we gamble for a reward and the risk can be sometimes be.to loose everything. typically we are not equipped to assess the risk:reward payoff.

debt is running the world. its in our minds and has been, including in religion.

just because we choose to ignore leverage doesnt mean it doesnt effect us. are house prices effected by it? are markets distorted by it putting.those who avoid.it at a competitive disadvantage?

theres a book 'debt: the first 5000 years' I think... if you think its bad now just be thankful theres less.selling.of daughters these days.

question: what was the monetry value of pirates reputation before the problems, how much was taken vs this and how does this ratio compare to a typical credit.ratio rating?

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[halfawake]

I don't really care what banks think, I have as much credit as I'd ever need within my circle. If I buy a house, I have family that would even take a loan in their name because they know I'm good for my word and money.

Even with my bad credit as a result of being unemployed for six months and the dispute with Verizon, I was able to buy a house - but I had to do it through a credit union, regular banks wouldn't touch me.

I have two more payments and it is paid off, never having missed a payment.

Congrats on almost having paid off your home.  Out of curiosity, what interest rate did you have to pay for the mortgage?

[bitcoin_max]

Keep in mind, we always think of credit scores as something personal to us, but the fact is that the system was designed for the creditors_ to help them_ do more profitable lending.  It's a way to brand the cattle.  From their point of view it's quite logical.

[AliceWonder]

I don't really care what banks think, I have as much credit as I'd ever need within my circle. If I buy a house, I have family that would even take a loan in their name because they know I'm good for my word and money.

Even with my bad credit as a result of being unemployed for six months and the dispute with Verizon, I was able to buy a house - but I had to do it through a credit union, regular banks wouldn't touch me.

I have two more payments and it is paid off, never having missed a payment.

Congrats on almost having paid off your home.  Out of curiosity, what interest rate did you have to pay for the mortgage?

12% fixed.
Yes, that's high, but I really had no option.

I probably could have gotten lower from bank if Verizon hadn't screwed me over, but I don't have the assets needed to sue them.

My opinion on the whole credit rating thing is that it's all a big scam, there is no recourse when the customer is f***ed over like I was, nothing I could do. It's basically legal extortion - you either bow before corporate America when there's a payment dispute and pay them or they screw up your credit rating.

What's funny is how much Verizon could have made off of me by now had they simply done the right thing. I don't get it.

Over a matter of $60 (last bill) when I had a $500 deposit - they lost me as a customer for life, and by now I've spent several thousand dollars with their competition that they could have had.

[Lethn]

What's a credit score? I don't use credit cards the only time I ever got into trouble was when I managed to somehow trigger the overdraft because the transactions hadn't all got through, that's when I started learning about Bitcoin which doesn't let you spend more than you have.

[CurbsideProphet]

You just need to know how to play the game.  Credit cards can give you cash back, miles, discounts, travel insurance, rental car insurance, 0% loans, extended warranties, theft protection, etc. etc.  That's just some of the few reasons why credit cards can be better than cash.  Yes, they have outrageous fees and high interest rates if you don't pay them off every month but that's why I say you need to know how to play the game.  As long as you have some self control and financial discipline, credit can be used very much to your advantage.   

[sgbett]

I don't really care what banks think, I have as much credit as I'd ever need within my circle. If I buy a house, I have family that would even take a loan in their name because they know I'm good for my word and money.

Even with my bad credit as a result of being unemployed for six months and the dispute with Verizon, I was able to buy a house - but I had to do it through a credit union, regular banks wouldn't touch me.

I have two more payments and it is paid off, never having missed a payment.

Congrats on almost having paid off your home.  Out of curiosity, what interest rate did you have to pay for the mortgage?

12% fixed.
Yes, that's high, but I really had no option.

I probably could have gotten lower from bank if Verizon hadn't screwed me over, but I don't have the assets needed to sue them.

My opinion on the whole credit rating thing is that it's all a big scam, there is no recourse when the customer is f***ed over like I was, nothing I could do. It's basically legal extortion - you either bow before corporate America when there's a payment dispute and pay them or they screw up your credit rating.

What's funny is how much Verizon could have made off of me by now had they simply done the right thing. I don't get it.

Over a matter of $60 (last bill) when I had a $500 deposit - they lost me as a customer for life, and by now I've spent several thousand dollars with their competition that they could have had.

Sounds rough. In the UK you could take them to small claims (after amassing plenty of correspondence showing you tried to avoid it - this is often key to winning favour from the judge/magistrate) for the princely sum of £80... maybe its gone up now I dunno. Provided the contract doesn't say they can do that (does it?) and/or you have evidence of what the rep said. You wouldn't need legal representation, they aren't gonna waste their time hiring some hot shot lawyer - they are probably likely to settle if you start making serious noises about going to court. If you do go to court they probably wont even bother showing.

You can find plenty of examples of the legal system failing, but they are all anecodatal. On the whole it works for stuff like this. worth a shot if you want to save your credit rating.

[halfawake]

I don't really care what banks think, I have as much credit as I'd ever need within my circle. If I buy a house, I have family that would even take a loan in their name because they know I'm good for my word and money.

Even with my bad credit as a result of being unemployed for six months and the dispute with Verizon, I was able to buy a house - but I had to do it through a credit union, regular banks wouldn't touch me.

I have two more payments and it is paid off, never having missed a payment.

Congrats on almost having paid off your home.  Out of curiosity, what interest rate did you have to pay for the mortgage?

12% fixed.
Yes, that's high, but I really had no option.

I probably could have gotten lower from bank if Verizon hadn't screwed me over, but I don't have the assets needed to sue them.

My opinion on the whole credit rating thing is that it's all a big scam, there is no recourse when the customer is f***ed over like I was, nothing I could do. It's basically legal extortion - you either bow before corporate America when there's a payment dispute and pay them or they screw up your credit rating.

What's funny is how much Verizon could have made off of me by now had they simply done the right thing. I don't get it.

Over a matter of $60 (last bill) when I had a $500 deposit - they lost me as a customer for life, and by now I've spent several thousand dollars with their competition that they could have had.

Sorry to hear about that, it sounds like you got a really raw deal here.  I agree, it is a scam, it really should be easier to get redress in cases like this, but invariably, at least in the United States, the party with the most money can drag things out long enough to make it not worth the hassle of suing them.

[vokain]

But I could careless, fuck banks.

Goooo credit unions

[Fugger]

If you need credit from time to time a credit score is a good thing. Because no matter who you take the credit from - if they don't know you they want need some kind of reference. Credit is only undesirable if used to too much, just like other things.

Many business owners face a liquidity shortage from time to time or need to make larger investments. If there was no credit score their number of potential lenders would be much smaller than when you have credit scores. So I guess for business owners a credit score is more important and therefore more valuable than for other people.

[cdog]

Im trying to find a new apt, and trust me, no no/low credit score sucks

[Stephen Gornick]

What about you? Do you value your credit scores?

Sorry for the necro thread post but I thought this was relevant.

Americans In Debt: 35 Percent Have Unpaid Bills Reported To Collection Agencies
 - http://huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/29/americans-in-debt_n_5629137.html

Poverty Is Profitable: 1 out of 3 US Consumers in Debt Collection
 - http://huffingtonpost.com/peter-van-buren/poverty-is-profitable-1-debt_b_5630444.html

Oftentimes the debtor gets reported, but then the next time they go to the bank to get a car loan or something like they they are told they need to pay off the debt owed before the bank could even consider lending to them.   So this "leverage" that the lenders have seems to do a decent job of recovering a fair amount of previously bad-debt.  When even that doesn't get the debtor to pay up, once in collections there are often threats of it going to court to get a judgement (which can result in "enforced judgement" that includes garnished wages, attachment of assets, liens on property and bank levys).

Does Bitcoin provide a relief from this for many?   A freelancer receiving Bitcoin income probably isn't worried about garnishment of wages or a bank levy even.

Also, a borrower with bad credit in the fiat world might still find lenders on BTCjam or BitLendingClub.  It's like a second identity since the fiat world uses one trust system and the peer-to-peer economy uses another.

Thoughts?

[Malin Keshar]

I like credit because otherwise I would need to sell my bitcoins and other reserve stuffs I have, and I can get more with them than I would pay in interests.
Also excesive credit to buy consumer goods is bad, because it will inflationate all the prices and create bubbles, and will make too easy to people lose control over their finances., but credit to open business is really good and necessary.

Sadly, I have no credit(either in fiat or in the bitcoin world  ) because the people that give credit don't consider the Prime Dice signature program as an income source, neither a bitcoin address as warranty of payment

[Kluge]

What about you? Do you value your credit scores?

Sorry for the necro thread post but I thought this was relevant.

Americans In Debt: 35 Percent Have Unpaid Bills Reported To Collection Agencies
 - http://huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/29/americans-in-debt_n_5629137.html

Poverty Is Profitable: 1 out of 3 US Consumers in Debt Collection
 - http://huffingtonpost.com/peter-van-buren/poverty-is-profitable-1-debt_b_5630444.html

Oftentimes the debtor gets reported, but then the next time they go to the bank to get a car loan or something like they they are told they need to pay off the debt owed before the bank could even consider lending to them.   So this "leverage" that the lenders have seems to do a decent job of recovering a fair amount of previously bad-debt.  When even that doesn't get the debtor to pay up, once in collections there are often threats of it going to court to get a judgement (which can result in "enforced judgement" that includes garnished wages, attachment of assets, liens on property and bank levys).

Does Bitcoin provide a relief from this for many?   A freelancer receiving Bitcoin income probably isn't worried about garnishment of wages or a bank levy even.

Also, a borrower with bad credit in the fiat world might still find lenders on BTCjam or BitLendingClub.  It's like a second identity since the fiat world uses one trust system and the peer-to-peer economy uses another.

Thoughts?

Debt collection generally isn't as harsh as the media reports it. Rarely, it involves phone calls, but almost never anything beyond that. Generally, it's just a letter sent every month or few.

I think it was earlier in this thread I may've gone on a rant about 0% credit cards. I ended up getting myself in a bit of trouble with some of them because they approve someone and have them sign a contract BEFORE they give the credit limit. In a lot of instances, I was getting garbage cards with $400 or so limits which weren't worth my time to keep up with, so I'd throw them in a drawer and never activate them. I ended up with a couple cards in "default" because they charged me some membership fee after a year I refused to pay, which then accumulated interest and late fees on monthly, which ended up with derogatory remarks on my score. A quick physical letter explaining the situation and why it's a fat load of nonsense solved it.

In many cases, where the debt's under ~$300, a credit card company or other lender will actually completely wipe the debt (even if it's legitimately accumulated), sometimes even without customer input. It's simply too small to be worth hassling the person over and burning bridges. The media sometimes does these goofy stories on someone forgetting what their co-pay was and coming up $20 short at the dentist's office, where the debt gets handed over to some obnoxious assholes who call the person up all hours of the day and at work - and it just doesn't normally happen, if at all.

I'm straying far from your question, though. BTCJam and others do generally completely overlook all this relatively great (compared to some guy giving his story and an OTC trust link) data, and when I did lending, I did, for a very short span of time, try pushing credit checks through the agencies. It can actually be done where the potential BTC lender doesn't need any government ID (SSN, home address, etc), but where the loan applicant can give that information to a trusted, major (corporate) third party which basically pulls the credit report and then sends it to the potential lender, where all the lender sees is the credit report rather than any really identifying information. I think I really put people off when I pushed it because I didn't know about these third-party agencies... people didn't seem too enthusiastic about handing their SSN over to me, so I don't have much practical experience to share on that.  -But I don't see any reason not to allow potential lendees this option if they don't have collateral or in-community reputation. Lending is basically just discovering information, compiling it, then assessing it, so any information's good information from the lender's point of view (and hopefully from the lendee's point of view).

I'm kind of torn on this because some people should be given another chance (or maybe they were wronged, or just didn't want to bother with these credit agencies if something negative's on their score), but at the same time, there's really no reason for lenders to be passing up on this kind of information, especially when the lendee and lender are often so far away from each other with really minimal information available. The BTC lending market's kind of "data isolated" right now because most neither push or pull data from existing credit agencies. Idunno what all's involved, but I suppose there's nothing preventing a fourth major credit agency from popping up which deals more in peer-to-peer issues, maybe specializing in crypto lending, and there may not be laws preventing it from doing something radical like pulling trust data from Bitcointalk or BTCJam to factor into its score.

[gts476]

As I think about it, I care a great deal for my credit score. Not because I want the score or because I require credit, but because my solid credit score keeps me flying under the .gov radar by labelling me as a compliant tax donkey.
Camouflage bitches.

[Swordsoffreedom]

A tricky question not sure if I value a credit score to the extent that you need it to get loans and what not for your house I guess yes, but afterwards unless you need a large loan for some reason or another such as predicting a massive rally in Bitcoin
Although I do like gts476 Camouflage argument lols

[RodeoX]

I haven't checked in months, but I think I have been able to maintain my "un-scorable" position. For me it is a sort of protest to not participate in the credit market. So many people take on credit without ever doing the math or understanding the crappy terms they are obligating themselves to. They seem to just be interested in getting what they want now.

Just look at the payday loan places. Their adds say things like "your money, to do the things you want, is waiting for you!" WTF? It's not your money, you are signing a preposterously expensive contract that will put you further under water. I prefer to save and wait. When I do buy, there is no B.S. Just a price and a bag of cash that is far less than some financed arrangement that take years to play out.

As far as I'm concerned, cash is king and credit is the court jester.

[Kluge]

I haven't checked in months, but I think I have been able to maintain my "un-scorable" position. For me it is a sort of protest to not participate in the credit market. So many people take on credit without ever doing the math or understanding the crappy terms they are obligating themselves to. They seem to just be interested in getting what they want now.

Just look at the payday loan places. Their adds say things like "your money, to do the things you want, is waiting for you!" WTF? It's not your money, you are signing a preposterously expensive contract that will put you further under water. I prefer to save and wait. When I do buy, there is no B.S. Just a price and a bag of cash that is far less than some financed arrangement that take years to play out.

As far as I'm concerned, cash is king and credit is the court jester.

Some people can get fixed-rate mortgages at as low of rates as 4% for 30-years right now, which is roughly in line with "normal" annual inflation (it's been worryingly low, lately). Since land can be leased to farmers at a rate to more than cover property taxes (at least in MI this year), I'd argue it's a pretty damn good time for people with near-perfect credit to consider buying a diverse collection of cheap land near suburbs (preferably around growing factories) on credit as a mid- to long-term investment. No mountain of risk with leasing houses and which is still somewhat fungible, where you can sell parcels which've appreciated in value as needed. OTOH, a good number of banks, even, are assuming another housing crisis is imminent, but so long as the land is "fundamentally" cheap (where its value is more in utility than location or other luxury), I can't imagine it'd be nearly as much an impact, and certainly a housing bubble pop doesn't mean the value of land and houses goes down EVERYWHERE. Idunno... I'd be looking into it intensely if I thought I could get a mortgage like that.

-But yeah - in general, taking an unnecessary loan for consumer/luxury goods is a terrible idea, and even mortgages are extremely risky if all you're doing is, say, buying a house to live in where the market can easily and rapidly swing out of your favor and basically turn the place into a debtor's prison, which it seems like every generation learns too late. Business loans are maybe okay in certain circumstances, and even credit cards have major benefits if you truly know you won't get trapped, but I definitely prefer having cash on me rather than relying on debit and especially credit. Everything's just so much more quick, intuitive, and simple. I'd love it if I could pay my bills in cash -- like if I could just hand cash to the fellow filling my propane tank up, that'd be fantastic, rather than sometimes remembering to write a check when I get the mail and throw the invoice in The Drawer. -But at the same time, I don't like holding much cash just because of the theft/loss risk. Though, maybe we're not too many years off from the propane guy just printing the delivery note with a QR code, so I can just bring it inside and scan it with my phone to pay... God, that'd be so wonderful!

[RodeoX]

Good stuff Kluge! I do see the positive role of credit in the economy. My issue is more about the way it is currently pushed as a virtue to be in debt.

[jcoin200]

Unless you like living as a debt slave, it doesn't matter in my opinion.  I dont finance cars, computers, tv's like some people like to, you end up paying way more in the long run.  Stay ahead of your finances and live within your means.