Interesting conversation with a retailer who formerly accepted Bitcoin

[SMTB1963]

Hey nmteaco, how is your 2nd try with BTC going?  Been a little over a month since you've set up the improved BTC receipts process, right?

Would you care to write a blurb about what's working better for you, and what (if anything) is still problematic?  Just curious...

 

[1715418993]

1715418993

[myrkul]

Would you care to write a blurb about what's working better for you, and what (if anything) is still problematic?  Just curious...

 

I'd be interested in hearing this, as well, especially the problems. If you never let us know about them, they can't get fixed!

[IveBeenBit]

I used Mtgox and my bit coin last year, both got hacked right after I sold all my coins.

...and now he's using Bitfloor.  That's a really shitty run of luck.

NMTea - I'm much more of a coffee guy than tea, but if you stick with bitcoin after all this, I'll order from you to support you in accepting this currency. What do you have that would be comparable to Peet's Yin Hao Jasmine?

[myrkul]

I used Mtgox and my bit coin last year, both got hacked right after I sold all my coins.

...and now he's using Bitfloor.  That's a really shitty run of luck.

Unless he is the hacker, then it's just poor tradecraft, advertising the services you're going to hack.

Just joshing you, NMTeaCo, trying to keep the spirits up.

[nmteaco]

I used Mtgox and my bit coin last year, both got hacked right after I sold all my coins.

...and now he's using Bitfloor.  That's a really shitty run of luck.

NMTea - What do you have that would be comparable to Peet's Yin Hao Jasmine?

Yes, I was using bitfloor, and I had not cashed out any of the sales yet. In fact I had more orders then I knew I had because my staff just fills them as normal, (I go in after the fact to do all the bitcoin accounting stuff), and I had not checked it in a few weeks.

Its funny now... rereading about how unlikely it would be for bit-coin to drop in value by half... well my bit coins dropped in value by 100%.

I just lost a few hundred dollars, so its not the end of the world, but it has left a bad taste. I am never going to maintain my own wallet, and do all that stuff by hand, and every exchange has been hacked... not sure whats left to do?

Hopefully bitfloor will come back online!



Jasmine:
Similar quality cheaper price: http://www.nmteaco.com/Jasmine-Moli_p_168.html
A similar price, but a better tea:  http://www.nmteaco.com/Jasmine-Pearls_p_169.html

[myrkul]

I just lost a few hundred dollars, so its not the end of the world, but it has left a bad taste. I am never going to maintain my own wallet, and do all that stuff by hand, and every exchange has been hacked... not sure whats left to do?

Hire an accountant who'll work for Bitcoin? Honestly, I don't know. Someone should be able to help, though.

Hopefully bitfloor will come back online!

Same here! Good luck, man.

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

I am never going to maintain my own wallet

You shouldn't say never. Initiatives like bitcoincard, Ellet, and other attempts of air-gapped, dedicated-devices for managing bitcoins are popping up. Such devices would allow people to safely store their main wallet, even people which are not tech-savvy.

, and do all that stuff by hand, and every exchange has been hacked... not sure whats left to do?

If you really don't trust your skills in protecting your money, maybe you should try diversification? Have multiple online wallets, instead of only one.
But IMHO you should take a look at stuff like Armory and its offline wallets. It's not that complicated.

[mintymark]

Reading this makes me want to weep. Mtgox, Intersango, Bitcoinica, Bitfloor, I am aware of these before of course, but seeing this from a traders perspective is something new for me.

Nobody will use bitcoin if it always happens like this!!

I think its high time that some code was put in the public domain that will allow anyone to run an exchange with the security already taken care of.  As someone else said, allow the sunshine of public scrutiny to sanitize the code and perhaps there is a chance of avoiding the hacks! Perhaps we should also consider an injection of peer-to-peer which would (in my humble opinion) greatly improve the securioty both of the platform and of individual transfers.

Really we cannot keep recommending bitcoin to traders and recomending that they use exchanges that are not safe.

And with out exchanges that are safe and trusted, bitcoin cannot grow.

So we really need to focus on the exchange problem, because its a problem for everyone of us and needs to be solved, and evidence is that tomorrows whizzo exchange will have exactly the same issues as the old ones, unless this becomes the priority.

[myrkul]

Reading this makes me want to weep. Mtgox, Intersango, Bitcoinica, Bitfloor, I am aware of these before of course, but seeing this from a traders perspective is something new for me.

Nobody will use bitcoin if it always happens like this!!

I think its high time that some code was put in the public domain that will allow anyone to run an exchange with the security already taken care of.  As someone else said, allow the sunshine of public scrutiny to sanitize the code and perhaps there is a chance of avoiding the hacks! Perhaps we should also consider an injection of peer-to-peer which would (in my humble opinion) greatly improve the securioty both of the platform and of individual transfers.

Really we cannot keep recommending bitcoin to traders and recomending that they use exchanges that are not safe.

And with out exchanges that are safe and trusted, bitcoin cannot grow.

So we really need to focus on the exchange problem, because its a problem for everyone of us and needs to be solved, and evidence is that tomorrows whizzo exchange will have exactly the same issues as the old ones, unless this becomes the priority.

+∞

[nmteaco]

I am never going to maintain my own wallet

If you really don't trust your skills in protecting your money, maybe you should try diversification? Have multiple online wallets, instead of only one.
But IMHO you should take a look at stuff like Armory and its offline wallets. It's not that complicated.

Its not only a matter of skill, I had a wallet a year and a half ago when I was first checking it out... Its a matter of what I want to spend my time on... even the online exchanges are a pain to deal with compared to just accepting a credit card. I have no desire to spend time keeping track of some file.

If bit-floor comes back online, I think the only answer is to just sell every bit-coin as soon as I get it. The issue with doing that is that it really ups the cost of accepting bit-coins, as there will be higher percentage of fees if im doing lots of little withdrawals.

Reading this makes me want to weep. Mtgox, Intersango, Bitcoinica, Bitfloor, I am aware of these before of course, but seeing this from a traders perspective is something new for me.

Nobody will use bitcoin if it always happens like this!!

Really we cannot keep recommending bitcoin to traders and recomending that they use exchanges that are not safe.

And with out exchanges that are safe and trusted, bitcoin cannot grow.

I think the fact that it has not been a priority is because security is hard. Think how much money banks spend on security... And even with all that, the money is FDIC insured, just incase. Lots of people in the bitcoin community like to bad mouth the banking industry, credit card companies, and the dollar... But could you imagine if those things were run like bitcoin?! The world would fall apart.

EDIT:
I want to add something somewhat positive... this time we are in as it relates to bitcoins is really like the wild west. The bandits come in and rob the train because the people who run the train dont know any better. Overtime things will improve. But again, because this is all just a game, not a necessity (what choice did people have in 1850), who knows if people will care enough to fix the system before it crashes one last time.

[muyuu]

This is an incredibly useful thread, with lots of insight. Sad about the retarded arguments of old (volatility doesn't matter if you live in BTC world LOL, the US$ might lose all its value overnight, etc etc).

I used Mtgox and my bit coin last year, both got hacked right after I sold all my coins.

...and now he's using Bitfloor.  That's a really shitty run of luck.

NMTea - What do you have that would be comparable to Peet's Yin Hao Jasmine?

Yes, I was using bitfloor, and I had not cashed out any of the sales yet. In fact I had more orders then I knew I had because my staff just fills them as normal, (I go in after the fact to do all the bitcoin accounting stuff), and I had not checked it in a few weeks.

Its funny now... rereading about how unlikely it would be for bit-coin to drop in value by half... well my bit coins dropped in value by 100%.

I just lost a few hundred dollars, so its not the end of the world, but it has left a bad taste. I am never going to maintain my own wallet, and do all that stuff by hand, and every exchange has been hacked... not sure whats left to do?

Hopefully bitfloor will come back online!



Jasmine:
Similar quality cheaper price: http://www.nmteaco.com/Jasmine-Moli_p_168.html
A similar price, but a better tea:  http://www.nmteaco.com/Jasmine-Pearls_p_169.html

It's really unfortunate that we have these issues happening periodically. I hope you don't give up just yet, and that you recover your funds.

[julz]

Its not only a matter of skill, I had a wallet a year and a half ago when I was first checking it out... Its a matter of what I want to spend my time on... even the online exchanges are a pain to deal with compared to just accepting a credit card. I have no desire to spend time keeping track of some file.

If bit-floor comes back online, I think the only answer is to just sell every bit-coin as soon as I get it. The issue with doing that is that it really ups the cost of accepting bit-coins, as there will be higher percentage of fees if im doing lots of little withdrawals.

What about the blockchain.info/wallet ?   This system doesn't have access to your private keys, because it only decrypts them in your browser when you log in.
You can get it to send an encrypted backup to your email - so even if the blockchain.info servers were to just disappear, you'd still be able to recover your bitcoins.

With the capability to 'pair' your account to an app on the android phone, it really is quite convenient.

Surely this would suffice to hold a few hundred/thousand dollars at a time until ready to squirt them into an exchange?

[nmteaco]

What about the blockchain.info/wallet ?

Surely this would suffice to hold a few hundred/thousand dollars at a time until ready to squirt them into an exchange?

So it is a hosted wallet? Yes that would work. Ill look into it, thanks!

PS...
So it is more secure then the exchanges because they themselves dont have access? The only way for a hacker to get my bitcoins would be to hack my account specifically?

[jwzguy]

As long as you choose a long, secure passphrase, no one can hack it on their server. It's sent and stored in an encrypted format. They'd have to hack your personal machine and install a keylogger or something along those lines to get your phrase.

[IveBeenBit]

So it is a hosted wallet? Yes that would work. Ill look into it, thanks!
PS...
So it is more secure then the exchanges because they themselves dont have access? The only way for a hacker to get my bitcoins would be to hack my account specifically?

NMTeaco -

I just got into bitcoins myself a few months ago, so I can appreciate your current position on the learning curve.

I'd say that YES the blockchain.info wallet would be a great solution for your needs. All of the encryption & decryption is done locally on your machine and the operators of the site do not have access to your coins. Additionally, they email you encrypted wallet backup keys so if one day the blockchain.info site disappears you can still restore your bitcoins into another wallet.

Blockchain.info has a support/development thread on this site that is dozens of pages long and where they have provided plenty of details of their security measures and have satisfied this (very demanding) community.

For someone with your transaction volume, I think it's a no brainer to use their wallet and make periodic deposits on an exchange or do an OTC exchange via a trusted forum member where they send you a personal check and you send them bitcoins. The only other thing to remember is to NEVER forget or lose your blockchain.info wallet password as they cannot recover it. That goes hand in hand with the admins not having access to your coins.

Honestly, I don't really trust any exchanges very much and only leave assets on an exchange for as little time as possible.

Bitfloor was one man show run by a 25 year old guy with experience as a programmer, but no real business experience. He was grossing about $2500/month and living in New York City while being responsible for  $300k or more in assets. I don't see how he could afford to eat, let alone pay for security audits and the like, so the Bitfloor hack was a foreseeable disaster waiting to happen.

Edit: What jwzguy said above me is correct. He's just not as verbose as I am. 

[nmteaco]

I'd say that YES the blockchain.info wallet would be a great solution for your needs.

For someone with your transaction volume, I think it's a no brainer to use their wallet and make periodic deposits on an exchange.

Edit: What jwzguy said above me is correct. He's just not as verbose as I am. 

I think the new method for hacking is this whole social engineering attack... hack into twitter or facebook, get access to my gmail, then lastpass, then find wallet password... But I have the advantage of not being a big target, so its unlikely someone would go to all that trouble!

I am really liking blockchain, I created two wallets, one for online transactions, and one for instore transaction. Downloaded the ipad app, and have it autobackup both to email and dropbox. Password is a 15 character generated password from lastpass.

Wish I knew about them before. But we are back in business accepting coin!

[jwzguy]

I'd say that YES the blockchain.info wallet would be a great solution for your needs.

For someone with your transaction volume, I think it's a no brainer to use their wallet and make periodic deposits on an exchange.

Edit: What jwzguy said above me is correct. He's just not as verbose as I am. 

I think the new method for hacking is this whole social engineering attack... hack into twitter or facebook, get access to my gmail, then lastpass, then find wallet password... But I have the advantage of not being a big target, so its unlikely someone would go to all that trouble!

I am really liking blockchain, I created two wallets, one for online transactions, and one for instore transaction. Downloaded the ipad app, and have it autobackup both to email and dropbox. Password is a 15 character generated password from lastpass.

Wish I knew about them before. But we are back in business accepting coin!

I am also really impressed with Blockchain.info. They've done an excellent job. I just got their Android app and now I feel like I could go to merchants and demonstrate how they could easily accept bitcoin at POS. Their wallet allows you to import from many different backup formats and sync with the satoshi client. It offers many ways to back up your keys, as you mentioned. I just noticed they have a built-in mixing service for anonymous transactions and the nice big green buttons for depositing cash are awesome for showing ease-of-use (although the fees are too high for me personally.)

I only have one complaint so far, and that is that the Android client doesn't seem to have any security. I just got this phone so I'm still figuring it out....I assume there's a way to lock access to certain apps on it. That may be why they don't have any password on the app itself. But until then I can't leave it paired to my main wallet - anyone with access to my phone could steal all my BTC.

[Sant001]

I just visited NM Tea Company in Albuquerque, NM. I chose this particular tea store specifically because I found him listed as accepting Bitcoin and I want to support the Bitcoin community. However, when I inquired about it, the owner stated that he no longer accepts Bitcoin because, while the idea and principles are great, the volatility scared him. He explained that if he sold 2BTC worth of tea today, which might equal $17, it could be worth only $8 tomorrow which would cause him to have lost roughly 50% of his revenue from the sale.

I'm not versed enough the retail aspects of Bitcoin so I didn't have a rebuttal. I am interested in what this community has to say about his concerns, which can help me to engage next time.

Thanks.

Like small cap stocks, Bitcoin prices are still volatile. But as it grows it should become more stable.

In the meanwhile, stick to Bitpay and their instant conversion to USD service.

[Stephen Gornick]

I can't leave it paired to my main wallet - anyone with access to my phone could steal all my BTC.

Double Encrypt your wallet.

Set a second password which will be required when withdrawing funds from your account.

In Blockchain.info/wallet -> Account Settings -> Password -> Second Password

[jwzguy]

I can't leave it paired to my main wallet - anyone with access to my phone could steal all my BTC.

Double Encrypt your wallet.

Set a second password which will be required when withdrawing funds from your account.

In Blockchain.info/wallet -> Account Settings -> Password -> Second Password

Awesome. Thanks for the help Stephen. This is exactly what I wanted.