btc

[bitcoinjesus2.0]

 

[EvilDave]

This is a very sketchy idea. I've pretty much lost faith in BTER over the last few months.
Rescuing it sounds like a good idea.......but could be a decision that turns around and bites investors on the ass.

People might be better off putting energy into finding alternate markets, rather than trying to rescue something that has already been massively hacked twice.
What ever happened to BTS much-lauded decentralised markets, btw?

From the BTS forum:

Agreed. I think the problem is we're all seeing the shrinking market cap and starting to get desperate for something to pull us out of the ashes

Well, don't be so panicky. Think long-term.
I guess this is easier for me to deal with than for the BTS community, I've already seen one BTER hack crisis so it's starting to become routine.

[jl777]

This could bite investors on the ass.

Yes there are risks to investments, especially this, which would have to be negotiated, and mitigated by a BitShares paid delegate.  How much profit does BTER make in a year?  How many years worth of profits did they just lose?

1?   2?  0.5?

If they open up and start trading again, and the price of bitcoin rises, then maybe they did not lose that much in dollar terms.  The value of those 7000 BTC is much less than their value a year ago.

What ever happened to BTS much-lauded decentralised markets, btw?

Still trading, but coin selection is limited to bitcoins, dollars, euros, Yuan, and liquidity injecting coin that pays a dividend that this proposed ICO coin would be modeled after.  This profit sharing contract would actually trade on the BitShares blockchain.  A delegate would be elected to hold one part of the multisig key for a portion of the BTC reserve of BTER.  Yes they need to be more like COinbase when it comes to securing their keys.

From the BTS forum:

Agreed. I think the problem is we're all seeing the shrinking market cap and starting to get desperate for something to pull us out of the ashes

Yes, some who hold coins in BTER have paniced.  The bottom line is that BTER needs to be taught multisig technology.  It is ridiculous to put all your eggs in one basket (isn't that an ancient Chinese proverb?).  BitShares is designed to hire people to do tasks like this.  They have connections in China, and may be able to help BTER secure their capital with multisig tech going forward.  This is just a preliminary gauge of potential investor sentiment.

assuming they have 0 overhead, eg. everyone works for free and servers and rent, etc. all free.

They were doing ~700 BTC per day, at 0.5% trade commission so that is 3.5 BTC per day
-> ~2000 days which is over 5 years.

However, it would be unlikely they return to same volume of trade volume, especially since their customers now have 7000 BTC less to trade, so at most I would expect half the old trading volume. We are up to 10 years.

Now let us be realistic and say that maybe they would need to pay for servers, customer support but we can be optimistic and say it they can run at an 70% profit margin. This puts the estimate at 15 years.

James

[EvilDave]

I had a small brainstorm session about a BTER rescue possibility a couple of days ago.

Apart from the point raised above by J, the other main practical issue that I see with a BTER rescue is that of trust in the BTER infrastructure:

BTER has now been hacked hard twice, which means that both the staff and physical/software infrastructure of BTER can no longer be trusted.
Any investor/white knight will therefore have to either replace (or thoroughly check) every aspect of BTER, as well as monitor the day-to-day operations.
The investment of money and time that will be needed to create a trustworthy BTER will be almost the same as that needed to set up a new exchange.

I'd prefer to concentrate on the development of de-centralised/distributed exchanges, rather than rescuing centralised businesses.
 

[lopalcar]

I'd prefer to concentrate on the development of de-centralised/distributed exchanges, rather than rescuing centralised businesses.

Me too, but you have to admit that all decentralized exchanges have quite a ways to go to catch up with the volume and liquidity of current centralized exchanges.

BTER is today, NXT is tomorrow
[/quote]

True, but if everyone gets payed back, people will continue thinking that store their coins in an exchange is secure... and this will only harm crypto.
I think it would be a better idea if bter starts operate decentralized way "as a thanks action for help them recover and trust in crypto", for example, becoming a multiwateway server, or at least, for allow instant trading till instantdex is live, keep working till now but updating balances using MWG twice or one per day...
But please, let's move this to decentralization, or at least to something more distributed, don't repeat the same history again and again.

[shit coin]

I don't think people will trust bter again now its been hacked twice. A profit sharing contract requires trust that they won't be hacked again.

[Bralex]

Bter are Bter of away from this crypto scene they had terrible customer service, their security was roughly the same.

And the owners morals was on par with the service, let them run into the night with their 7000btc and be happy it was not bigger and they got more.

Horrible exchange.

[Crestington]

wow, interesting stuff,

[iGotSpots]

All respect for them has been lost if this goes through

[Zer0Sum]

and from only 1 wallet.  Either they are brain dead stupid, or setting up the big con from the start.  What other explanations are there?

It was an inside job. No one is that sloppy.

There is this general belief that crypto exchanges make a lot of money...
Not the mid-level exchanges and not the regulated exchanges (farewell Cryptsy, Polo, Bittrex)...
If cavirtex closed down... then administrative/regulatory costs are fucking killing this space.

Actually, a Bitcoin ETF would be a game changer...
You could trade BTC from your brokerage account with professional grade Wall Street security...
And trade MUCH cheaper with shorting and rebates...
Soon that first ETF will be followed by a flood of speciality crypto ETFs... only the Top 20 alts will matter.

The days where you trade shit coin pumps on obscure exchanges are coming to an end, baby.

[TheCoinWizard]

assuming they have 0 overhead, eg. everyone works for free and servers and rent, etc. all free.

They were doing ~700 BTC per day, at 0.5% trade commission so that is 3.5 BTC per day
-> ~2000 days which is over 5 years.

However, it would be unlikely they return to same volume of trade volume, especially since their customers now have 7000 BTC less to trade, so at most I would expect half the old trading volume. We are up to 10 years.

Now let us be realistic and say that maybe they would need to pay for servers, customer support but we can be optimistic and say it they can run at an 70% profit margin. This puts the estimate at 15 years.

James

You forgot to calculate in the on average half yearly 1.5+ Million dollar getting hacked due to either them being crooks or completely incompetent...

[jcrubino]

Bter and other international exchanges need to all begin Smart Contract based brokerage interactions.

1)  The first iteration should be open transactions based.

2)  Blockchain solutions can be adapted in time when they are at mature levels for integration.

A smart contract based brokerage system will be essential for any international exchange that wants to be trusted by users overseas.

Current and future cryptocoin exchanges need to migrate to a hybrid centralized / decentralized system supporting real time trading with smart contract account reconciliation.

Realtime decentralized exchanges are far away and the usability for functioning distributed exchanges is still far off from what main stream users want to deal with on a UX level.

While crypto finance is generally anti-[Wall street, Banking] there is a lot to learn from the current landscape and mechanics of the main stream system because they (Wall street, International Banks) too are evolutionary driven towards a faster more efficient financial system.  Accountability may very.

Basically by starting an Open Transactions trade services, exchanges will be able to create accountable real time trading similar to how trade clearinghouses and prime brokerages function in the mainstream financial industries with trust-less guarantees.

[cazkooo]

and from only 1 wallet.  Either they are brain dead stupid, or setting up the big con from the start.  What other explanations are there?

It was an inside job. No one is that sloppy.

There is this general belief that crypto exchanges make a lot of money...
Not the mid-level exchanges and not the regulated exchanges (farewell Cryptsy, Polo, Bittrex)...
If cavirtex closed down... then administrative/regulatory costs are fucking killing this space.

Actually, a Bitcoin ETF would be a game changer...
You could trade BTC from your brokerage account with professional grade Wall Street security...
And trade MUCH cheaper with shorting and rebates...
Soon that first ETF will be followed by a flood of speciality crypto ETFs... only the Top 20 alts will matter.

The days where you trade shit coin pumps on obscure exchanges are coming to an end, baby.

it is an inside job for sure or at least they are pretty confident to let one people hold their private key, still waiting for the full report on how it is compromised anyway

[dsly]

and from only 1 wallet.  Either they are brain dead stupid, or setting up the big con from the start.  What other explanations are there?

It was an inside job. No one is that sloppy.

There is this general belief that crypto exchanges make a lot of money...
Not the mid-level exchanges and not the regulated exchanges (farewell Cryptsy, Polo, Bittrex)...
If cavirtex closed down... then administrative/regulatory costs are fucking killing this space.

Actually, a Bitcoin ETF would be a game changer...
You could trade BTC from your brokerage account with professional grade Wall Street security...
And trade MUCH cheaper with shorting and rebates...
Soon that first ETF will be followed by a flood of speciality crypto ETFs... only the Top 20 alts will matter.

The days where you trade shit coin pumps on obscure exchanges are coming to an end, baby.

it is an inside job for sure or at least they are pretty confident to let one people hold their private key, still waiting for the full report on how it is compromised anyway

They should already have come out with a statement by now. If they can't , then its almost always an inside job