Cashing out BTC to paypal?

[Bitcoin Explorer]

And how does PayPal get to know that the cash was sent was bitcoin related? Is it depending on the site that sends the payment for bitcoins or if the note specifies the same?

If you trade with a few people some of them will mention "Bitcoin" in the payment reference part even if you tell them not to do this and PayPal occasionally checks user accounts.

The only company doing PayPal <-> Bitcoin with their permission is VirWoX.

I don't deal with PayPal but do you know why they are freezing accounts?

[Puppet]

I got a visa card from e-coin.io. You can charge it with BTC, and link it to your paypal account, so that way you could convert and spend your BTC via paypal. Side note: dont sell all your BTC.  Who knows what it will be worth in a few years.

[Frost]

And how does PayPal get to know that the cash was sent was bitcoin related? Is it depending on the site that sends the payment for bitcoins or if the note specifies the same?

If you trade with a few people some of them will mention "Bitcoin" in the payment reference part even if you tell them not to do this and PayPal occasionally checks user accounts.

The only company doing PayPal <-> Bitcoin with their permission is VirWoX.

I don't deal with PayPal but do you know why they are freezing accounts?

Who does freeze accounts? PayPal or VirWox? Both just freeze suspicious accounts. If you don't do anything shady, you don't have to be afraid to get problems with your account.

[chmod755]

If you don't do anything shady, you don't have to be afraid to get problems with your account.

PayPal will freeze your account just for using Bitcoin, because it's against their terms of service

[erikalui]

If you don't do anything shady, you don't have to be afraid to get problems with your account.

PayPal will freeze your account just for using Bitcoin, because it's against their terms of service

PayPal does not allow any kind of exchange as far I know and they limit accounts who appear suspicious and those who gain money from gambling websites and exchangers. If one is receiving from a member then I doubt they will check the notes as well but they can if they want to make sure every account for legal transactions.

The main thing I don't like abut PayPal is the chargebacks. Why do they need to chargeback an account just because the buyer says the good is not received? They should properly verify the case and then credit the buyer. Here if I exchange bitcoins with a new member, there are many chances of a chargeback.

[Frost]

If you don't do anything shady, you don't have to be afraid to get problems with your account.

PayPal will freeze your account just for using Bitcoin, because it's against their terms of service

PayPal does not allow any kind of exchange as far I know and they limit accounts who appear suspicious and those who gain money from gambling websites and exchangers. If one is receiving from a member then I doubt they will check the notes as well but they can if they want to make sure every account for legal transactions.

The main thing I don't like abut PayPal is the chargebacks. Why do they need to chargeback an account just because the buyer says the good is not received? They should properly verify the case and then credit the buyer. Here if I exchange bitcoins with a new member, there are many chances of a chargeback.

I know VirWox since a decade as I am merchant and designer in Second Life. I can not tell you how often I exchanged between PayPal and VirWox back and forth, it happens at least twice a month since years. My PayPal account is still working, as same as my VirWox account. So, I think you are wrong. PayPal has no problem with VirWox.

[erikalui]

I know VirWox since a decade as I am merchant and designer in Second Life. I can not tell you how often I exchanged between PayPal and VirWox back and forth, it happens at least twice a month since years. My PayPal account is still working, as same as my VirWox account. So, I think you are wrong. PayPal has no problem with VirWox.

Could you please tell me how VirWox works? I checked the FAQ and noticed that they accept deposits via PP/BTC but do they also allow exchanging bitcoins for PP? If so, what's the fee then?

[Frost]

I know VirWox since a decade as I am merchant and designer in Second Life. I can not tell you how often I exchanged between PayPal and VirWox back and forth, it happens at least twice a month since years. My PayPal account is still working, as same as my VirWox account. So, I think you are wrong. PayPal has no problem with VirWox.

Could you please tell me how VirWox works? I checked the FAQ and noticed that they accept deposits via PP/BTC but do they also allow exchanging bitcoins for PP? If so, what's the fee then?

You can find the fees in the FAQ as well here: https://www.virwox.com/help.php?language=en#_Fees

The fees are quite horrible. I do think they secure themself against customers who might chargeback with PayPal. I believe they compensate the risk with those high fees.
Anyway, I would still suggest them if you have big online income that you need to convert fast without going the bank route, or if you are afraid to use your bank account for crypto related stuff.

Anyway, the fees ad up there as you have to convert through several currencies and with each step there are fees. I'd collect large sums to be converted, I did set myself a treshold when I convert, I do not make small transactions as it is not worth due to the fees. So, if you have constant big online income it's still a very nice and option to convert via VirWox (although you will have limits with a new account).

To get to Bitcoin via Virwox and PayPal:

1. You add money via PayPal to VirWox

PayPal: Unfortunately, PayPal charges us fees for its services, which are deducted from your deposit. Also, the fee varies with currency, location of customer, payment method used, transaction size, and the size of our previous transactions with PayPal; so the exact fee is only known to us after the transaction has taken place. As an example, the current fee for deposits in Euro for customers with their PayPal account kept in Euro is 0.35 Euro plus 3.4% of the transaction.

2. You convert the sum to the Second Life currency Linden Dollars (SSL).

Fees 2.90%

3. You convert Second Life Linden Dollars (SSL) to Bitcoin

Fees 2.90%

4. You could then send the BTC amount to your own BTC address of your desktop wallet or whatever you use

A handling fee of 0.005 BTC per bitcoin withdrawal will be charged.

To get Bitcoin from VirWox to PayPal.

1. You create a BTC address on VirWox and send your BTC to this address

This is without fees

2. You convert your BTC to Second Life Linden Dollars (SSL)

Fees 2.90%

3. You convert Second Life (SSL) to Dollars

Fees 2.90%

4. You withdraw it to PayPal

A handling fee of 1 EUR (1 USD, 1 CHF, 1 GBP) + 2% PayPal Fee per PayPal withdrawal will be charged.

[erikalui]

You can find the fees in the FAQ as well here: https://www.virwox.com/help.php?language=en#_Fees

The fees are quite horrible. I do think they secure themself against customers who might chargeback with PayPal. I believe they compensate the risk with those high fees.
Anyway, I would still suggest them if you have big online income that you need to convert fast without going the bank route, or if you are afraid to use your bank account for crypto related stuff.

Anyway, the fees ad up there as you have to convert through several currencies and with each step there are fees. I'd collect large sums to be converted, I did set myself a treshold when I convert, I do not make small transactions as it is not worth due to the fees. So, if you have constant big online income it's still a very nice and option to convert via VirWox (although you will have limits with a new account).

To get to Bitcoin via Virwox and PayPal:

1. You add money via PayPal to VirWox

PayPal: Unfortunately, PayPal charges us fees for its services, which are deducted from your deposit. Also, the fee varies with currency, location of customer, payment method used, transaction size, and the size of our previous transactions with PayPal; so the exact fee is only known to us after the transaction has taken place. As an example, the current fee for deposits in Euro for customers with their PayPal account kept in Euro is 0.35 Euro plus 3.4% of the transaction.

2. You convert the sum to the Second Life currency Linden Dollars (SSL).

Fees 2.90%

3. You convert Second Life Linden Dollars (SSL) to Bitcoin

Fees 2.90%

4. You could then send the BTC amount to your own BTC address of your desktop wallet or whatever you use

A handling fee of 0.005 BTC per bitcoin withdrawal will be charged.

To get Bitcoin from VirWox to PayPal.

1. You create a BTC address on VirWox and send your BTC to this address

This is without fees

2. You convert your BTC to Second Life Linden Dollars (SSL)

Fees 2.90%

3. You convert Second Life (SSL) to Dollars

Fees 2.90%

4. You withdraw it to PayPal

A handling fee of 1 EUR (1 USD, 1 CHF, 1 GBP) + 2% PayPal Fee per PayPal withdrawal will be charged.

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation.

So in my case, I would need to choose second option where I withdraw the bitcoins via PayPal. In that case, I would be paying a total of 7.8% + 1 EUR and in addition to that, PayPal charges me 4.5% + $0.34 since it's an Indian account.  I just have no words to describe how I am feeling right now 

[Frost]

Yes, as said, the truth is, the fees add up there. It's horrible but if this is for whatever reason your only solution as you don't want to use your bank account for Bitcoin stuff as you are afraid it could be closed, this is the only option you have apart from P2P trades of course, as VirWox is very trusted. In case you have quite a lot of "big and random" online income, the fees won't matter that much. If you want to convert small sums, yea, it'll be horrible expansive. I have normal real life income + online income and I can live already from my usual income so that it doesn't really matter how much fees I pay on my online income as it is my extra money and I don't care if I have to split it up due to the fees while conversion.. this is the only reason why I am ok with the fees there.

[FanEagle]

I use Virwox when I need my money on my paypal, the problem are the fees that comes along with it. Like bloodsuckers.

[chmod755]

I know VirWox since a decade as I am merchant and designer in Second Life. I can not tell you how often I exchanged between PayPal and VirWox back and forth, it happens at least twice a month since years. My PayPal account is still working, as same as my VirWox account. So, I think you are wrong. PayPal has no problem with VirWox.

AFAIK VirWoX has a special deal with PayPal and is the only Bitcoin exchanger that is tolerated by PayPal

[Frost]

I know VirWox since a decade as I am merchant and designer in Second Life. I can not tell you how often I exchanged between PayPal and VirWox back and forth, it happens at least twice a month since years. My PayPal account is still working, as same as my VirWox account. So, I think you are wrong. PayPal has no problem with VirWox.

AFAIK VirWoX has a special deal with PayPal and is the only Bitcoin exchanger that is tolerated by PayPal

Exactly, because you buy a game currency on VirWox first... what happens after that in your VirWox account and if you convert it to BTC, that doesn't matter to PayPal anymore. As same as it is forbidden by PayPal to buy tobacco from web stores. However, you can find tobacco websites where you can buy for example 50€ giftcards with PayPal, and then you spend the giftcard in the store on tobacco products and PayPal won't care. It's basically the same loop hole.