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usagi
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July 28, 2012, 05:29:26 PM
 #1

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Sukrim
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July 28, 2012, 06:34:18 PM
 #2

Who would cover the insurance on YARR then? Still CPA or the buyer?

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July 28, 2012, 06:39:06 PM
 #3

What are your liabilities?
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July 28, 2012, 06:40:16 PM
 #4

May I ask why are you selling it?

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July 28, 2012, 07:07:02 PM
 #5

That makes zero sense, you sell companies for the net worth. Your net worth is you assets minus your liabilities. Your assets are all of your deposits with pirate, plus your other bitcoins held by yarr, plus goodwill. Your liabilities are the sum of the face value of the shares of YARR.

Net worth:
Assets:
3700 Bitcoins (At least 2000 of which are on deposit with Pirate to pay dividends and 2000 of which are reserved to pay default).
Goodwill: Some unknown positive number

    Oh wait, that gives you negative 300 bitcoins.....so you either don't have the coin to cover default or you haven't acknowledged the value of your insurance contract.

Liabilities:

2000 Shares to be paid at 1 BTC on demand or failure of pirate, 1.3 BTC to close out yourself.

Sorry - your company is worth less than 2000 BTC.
gnar1ta$
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July 28, 2012, 10:04:14 PM
 #6

How are the 1500 new shares to be released in 2 days being accounted for?

Losing hundreds of Bitcoins with the best scammers in the business - BFL, Avalon, KNC, HashFast.
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July 29, 2012, 01:23:31 AM
 #7

Lol no, it's only correct from a wacky point of view Tongue
Unfortunately, as stated here the business model is tricky. If all of the shares were sold at 1.4, and 2000 of them were sold total, then that's 2800 coins gained from the IPO. However, 2000 of these coins are with pirate. If pirate defaults right now, the 1 BTC insurance will be returned in the form of a full forced buyback which will cost 2000 BTC. Remember only 800 coins were gained from the IPO and not put with pirate. Therefore, the other 1200 must come from not paying out on Sundays (20 coins / week). That's 60 weeks to a breakeven.

Given these numbers, if pirate defaults in the next year, YARR will have been a loss for the operator.

If 2000 of usagi's stated 3700 are with pirate, then he already has 1700 to back the shares. That's only 300 left to break-even, so at 20 / week:

Given those numbers, if pirate does not default in the next 15 weeks ( < 4 months ), YARR will have been a profit for the operator

The number you really want, though, is profit for the buyer of YARR. Taking the more accurate last guess, and adding it to the 1300 premium, that's 1600 in the red. Divide by 20:
Given this last pair of numbers, if you buy YARR for 5000 coins, you will break even 80 weeks from now

There is another option, contract C-4. That part enables you to do a force-buyback @ 1.3 at any time. If it were possible, I'd buy YARR for -1111 BTC and force a buyback. This would gain me 1 BTC profit Cheesy
As that negative number shows, the forced buyback isn't even economically feasible for CPA at this time, because 1.3 * 2000 is 4810, and 3700 < 4810.

This shows that usagi's point earlier that he is basically donating coins is correct. It also tells me why some investors wanted to buy "all the shares." Although, there are some cases (early default) where only pirate would win.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
Raoul Duke
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July 29, 2012, 02:19:06 AM
 #8

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<usagi> Nothing I said online was a lie. As I stated, I am a japanese vampire princess. I am an immortal.

Throw in immortality and I'll raise my bid to 0 BTC

That really makes one have trust on her Roll Eyes

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July 29, 2012, 02:35:55 AM
 #9

May I ask why are you selling it?

Simple; I want the next six months of profits today, and I want a premium on the YARR name. We're the first and best insured pirate bond, and that is worth a lot. If I don't sell it, I make money. So it's okay either way. But if I can get 5k for it as-is, I'd probably sell it.
Actually, PPT was the first.

Quote
That makes zero sense, you sell companies for the net worth. Your net worth is you assets minus your liabilities. Your assets are all of your deposits with pirate, plus your other bitcoins held by yarr, plus goodwill. Your liabilities are the sum of the face value of the shares of YARR.

It makes perfect sense, although you would probably have to have your own issue or a lot of experience running a business to understand. I've already answered this (technically) in a previous post but it bears repeating: If I sell for less than asset value a scammer can walk in and liquidate YARR. I wouldn't be responsible for his actions by that time. With this knowledge I cannot sell for less than asset value or I myself could be accused of scamming. I must sell for greater than asset value to ensure the buyer has a stake in running things properly. This is also why I offered 30 days full training, management assistance, etc.
Unfortunately, this means the buyer suffers a loss

Quote
Net worth:
Assets:
3700 Bitcoins (At least 2000 of which are on deposit with Pirate to pay dividends and 2000 of which are reserved to pay default).
Goodwill: Some unknown positive number (emphasis mine)

    Oh wait, that gives you negative 300 bitcoins.....so you either don't have the coin to cover default or you haven't acknowledged the value of your insurance contract.

I bolded the relevant part. Please don't make the same mistake as people like clipse, nimda and others by assuming you know how YARR is structured. YARR is 100% backed, in fact, it's overbacked. YARR == CPA. We just created the new asset to allow people to buy bonds directly on the GLBSE.
It may be overbacked right now, but when you sell it, it will not be. The receiver will get 3700 coins of assets, 2000 of which are exposed to a pirate default. Unless you want to change the terms of the sale.

Quote
Sorry - your company is worth less than 2000 BTC.

Please, don't apologize! It's all right --- just don't buy us. It will be okay for us. YARR makes 250 bitcoins a month as it stands, our time to cover is just seven weeks, which means by that time CPA will be making 25% a month with better risk than mining. If you don't think that is worth a small premium really, don't apologize, just don't buy.
250 bitcoins a month! How impressive! I wonder where this comes from, given that the withheld Sunday dividends comprise only 20 BTC/week. That's 2.85714 daily, or a maximum of 88.57142857 BTC in a 31 day month.

I will watch this thread, because I have a bridge to sell.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
waltmarkers
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July 29, 2012, 02:36:32 AM
 #10



Net worth:
Assets:
3700 Bitcoins (At least 2000 of which are on deposit with Pirate to pay dividends and 2000 of which are reserved to pay default).
Goodwill: Some unknown positive number (emphasis mine)

    Oh wait, that gives you negative 300 bitcoins.....so you either don't have the coin to cover default or you haven't acknowledged the value of your insurance contract.

I bolded the relevant part. Please don't make the same mistake as people like clipse, nimda and others by assuming you know how YARR is structured. YARR is 100% backed, in fact, it's overbacked. YARR == CPA. We just created the new asset to allow people to buy bonds directly on the GLBSE.

Sorry - your company is worth less than 2000 BTC.

Please, don't apologize! It's all right --- just don't buy us. It will be okay for us. YARR makes 250 bitcoins a month as it stands, our time to cover is just seven weeks, which means by that time CPA will be making 25% a month with better risk than mining. If you don't think that is worth a small premium really, don't apologize, just don't buy.

Don't worry, there was no danger of me making an offer anywhere near what you think is fair. But I'd love to see your math on how you make 250 BTC a month holding 2000 bonds without continuously issuing new bonds. Because anyone can issue new bonds and claim that they are insured by personal guarantee. Why buy your company, why not just compete with an asset called PLANK?
nimda
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July 29, 2012, 02:53:27 AM
 #11



Net worth:
Assets:
3700 Bitcoins (At least 2000 of which are on deposit with Pirate to pay dividends and 2000 of which are reserved to pay default).
Goodwill: Some unknown positive number (emphasis mine)

    Oh wait, that gives you negative 300 bitcoins.....so you either don't have the coin to cover default or you haven't acknowledged the value of your insurance contract.

I bolded the relevant part. Please don't make the same mistake as people like clipse, nimda and others by assuming you know how YARR is structured. YARR is 100% backed, in fact, it's overbacked. YARR == CPA. We just created the new asset to allow people to buy bonds directly on the GLBSE.

Sorry - your company is worth less than 2000 BTC.

Please, don't apologize! It's all right --- just don't buy us. It will be okay for us. YARR makes 250 bitcoins a month as it stands, our time to cover is just seven weeks, which means by that time CPA will be making 25% a month with better risk than mining. If you don't think that is worth a small premium really, don't apologize, just don't buy.

Don't worry, there was no danger of me making an offer anywhere near what you think is fair. But I'd love to see your math on how you make 250 BTC a month holding 2000 bonds without continuously issuing new bonds.
Funny, seems you can do math too. Welcome to the club! Smiley
Quote from: me
250 bitcoins a month! How impressive! I wonder where this comes from, given that the withheld Sunday dividends comprise only 20 BTC/week. That's 2.85714 daily, or a maximum of 88.57142857 BTC in a 31 day month.
There is the off-chance of 5 Sundays in a month. That's a lucky 100 BTC gain month, but it's not the norm, hence why I averaged it out to 88.57 BTC. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "maximum," since the true maximum is 100 BTC, but it shouldn't matter, because 100 is less than 250 and always will be.
Quote from: waltmarkers
Because anyone can issue new bonds and claim that they are insured by personal guarantee.
usagi has a bit more rep than that.
Quote
Why buy your company, why not just compete with an asset called PLANK?
I'd advise you to stay away from rhetorical questions like these. Insults go nowhere and don't add any validity to your otherwise logical argument.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
Raoul Duke
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July 29, 2012, 03:12:27 AM
 #12

Code:
<usagi> Nothing I said online was a lie. As I stated, I am a japanese vampire princess. I am an immortal.

Throw in immortality and I'll raise my bid to 0 BTC

That really makes one have trust on her Roll Eyes

It's interesting because she has what could otherwise be quite profitable offerings, but I first noticed she was making claims that don't match with reality a few weeks ago and have been slowly liquidating any assets of hers which I hold in my personal account. If it's all an act I can kind of understand, but I've lost money in the past by investing with a mentally unstable personality and it seems as if usagi is starting to run off the rails a bit.

Here's a more full log to help people better understand the context (from #btcst on Freenode):

Code:
<usagi> Chaang-Noi; I was the coder for the very first coin operated computer :) (the forerunner of internet cafe machines)... you can still see my design in airports in canada, bell canada still uses it for their overpriced shit
<usagi> Getting satoshidice in a machine is as trivial as what I did
<usagi> I can tell you how to do it right now and literally any coder could pull it off
<usagi> Just ask if you're interested
<usagi> I mean, we could really do this
<Obsi> usagi: When did you code the first coin operated computer?
<usagi> Im thinking 1997
<usagi> um
<usagi> something like that?
<Obsi> So you coded the very first coin-op computer when you were ~ 10-12 years old?
<usagi> Lol, and when did I tell you how old I was?
<usagi> That was a poor attempt, Obsi
<Obsi> You did not, but you did claim to be MagicalPockyUsagi on youtube, was that a lie?
<Obsi> I'm just trying to better understand the people that I currently have personal investments with.
<usagi> Nothing I said online was a lie. As I stated, I am a japanese vampire princess. I am an immortal.
<Obsi> and a prodigy coder it seems. An impressive resume.
<Obsi> although I would classify arcade machines as coin-op computers
<usagi> I'm also a master of asian martial arts, and a 4 dan in the ancient chinese game of Wei-Qi.

I'm on the channel and been following the conversation on and off, hence my comment Wink

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July 29, 2012, 03:43:39 AM
 #13

May I ask why are you selling it?

Simple; I want the next six months of profits today, and I want a premium on the YARR name. We're the first and best insured pirate bond, and that is worth a lot. If I don't sell it, I make money. So it's okay either way. But if I can get 5k for it as-is, I'd probably sell it.
Actually, PPT was the first.

PPT is not 100% insured against a pirate default.
It all depends on how you think about it. If, in the free market, I can buy a share of PPT for .32 bitcoins, then it is 100% insured. Similarly, if, in the free market, I can buy a share of YARR for 1 bitcoin, then it is 100% insured.

Neither of these are the case. A pirate default results in a loss of investors money in both PPT and YARR.

Quote
Nimda I know your intentions are good but I really think you need to step back and even just ask how something like YARR operates
It's quite obvious how it works. What is not obvious, is where the 250 BTC monthly comes from.
Quote
before you start publishing the kind of "detailed" analysis you are known for.
I'm known for it already? I feel honored! It's all math and no libel. If you have a dispute with the math part, please post in my analysis thread.
Quote
It would be better for you and for everyone else if you even just sent us an e-mail with some questions we could authoritatively answer for you.
Well I only have one question currently, "Where does the 250 BTC/month come from, given that 'not paying on sundays' only makes you 20 BTC/week?" and I would prefer it if you answer this question publicly. The rest of the information that I need is public -- market price, buyback price(s), etc
Quote
As it stands you're not really presenting the whole truth about YARR
I hope my math is correct. The non-math aspects do not concern me. Really, it seems to me that you would be much less angry if I hadn't conducted my evaluations when the market price of YARR was 1.89 BTC.
Quote
and it looks like a bit of a witch-hunt at times
AFAIK, you are the one who has insulted me.
Quote
even though you do say some net-positive things like that our fair price is around 1.70.....
Well that "net-positive" thing is entirely true, and I have bought some shares for less than 1.70 BTC, which makes me very happy.
Quote
If you don't have a question, seriously, stop being an asshole. Nobody cares whether or not you think I am a vampire or not and whether or not you want to bid -299 for YARR or whatever. Seriosuly you're making yourself look like an idiot.
I'll give you the same advice as I did the other guy: insults do not add credibility to your argument. Please ignore the trolls; use the ignore button if you have to. Hell, I won't be offended if you ignore me. I would also recommend that you use the Google Chrome web-browser, because it does automatic spell-checking for you.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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July 29, 2012, 03:46:19 AM
 #14

According to my math, Usagi and CPA invest the entire proceeds of YARR sales into Pirate. Using this as the basis, 1.5*(2k shares) = 3000 coins. 3000*.07= 210 per week. Subtracting dividends(2000*06=12 coins per week) leaves 90 coins per week profit. Now, its likely that Usagi did not sell most YARR shares at 1.5, but if I were in CPA, I would be very worried about potential losses on this venture as this is 2000 coins of exposure + whatever is being done off public record with other miners.

Looking for safe diversification? YABIF: Good Returns, Low Fees, Low Risk.

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July 29, 2012, 03:53:57 AM
 #15

According to my math, Usagi and CPA invest the entire proceeds of YARR sales into Pirate. Using this as the basis, 1.5*(2k shares) = 3000 coins. 3000*.07= 210 per week. Subtracting dividends(2000*06=12 coins per week) leaves 90 coins per week profit. Now, its likely that Usagi did not sell most YARR shares at 1.5, but if I were in CPA, I would be very worried about potential losses on this venture as this is 2000 coins of exposure + whatever is being done off public record with other miners.
Usagi has stated that YARR is about 3700 BTC. As a company insuring against a pirate default, I wouldn't put all of that into pirate...

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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July 29, 2012, 04:16:14 AM
 #16

Actually, PPT was the first.
PPT is not 100% insured against a pirate default.
It all depends on how you think about it. If, in the free market, I can buy a share of PPT for .32 bitcoins, then it is 100% insured. Similarly, if, in the free market, I can buy a share of YARR for 1 bitcoin, then it is 100% insured.

Oh dear lord nimda.. You and your "exposed capital" theory.. seriously.  Cheesy
Do you want me to explain again how 1 bitcoin at 7% plus .89 at 1.5% equals 1.89 bitcoins at ~4.3%? Sheesh.
This has absolutely nothing to do with my "'exposed capital' theory," which I have shown to be mathematically sound in the other thread in which you refuse to post. If you must know, however, 1 bitcoin at 0% and 0 risk plus .89 bitcoins at 6.7% and all the risk of a pirate default equals 1.89 bitcoins at ~3.1%. In the other thread you refuse to post in, I have provided examples showing that my model is correct for every outcome.

You did not respond to this part, the most relevant part:
"Neither of these are the case. A pirate default results in a [partial] loss of investors money in both PPT and YARR."
I hope you don't mean to tell me that a pirate default would not result in a loss of YARR investors' money, because that's simply not true.


Quote
Quote
Quote
If you don't have a question, seriously, stop being an asshole. Nobody cares whether or not you think I am a vampire or not and whether or not you want to bid -299 for YARR or whatever. Seriosuly you're making yourself look like an idiot.
I'll give you the same advice as I did the other guy: insults do not add credibility to your argument. Please ignore the trolls; use the ignore button if you have to. Hell, I won't be offended if you ignore me. I would also recommend that you use the Google Chrome web-browser, because it does automatic spell-checking for you.

The worst part of this is that Obsi does not have all the information. The magicalpockyusagi thing was a joke, and many many people know about it. It's been discussed several times in #bitcoin-assets. You could ask copumpkin, kakobrekla, or some others that were around then. It's actually a low-blow that he would say the things he said here and it makes me think he wants to discredit YARR because he has a competing issue. And what's more he has been informed of this on IRC. Let's see if he has the guts to post the conversation we just had. I doubt it.
It is fine for you to think that. It is not fine for you to throw insults around. Insulting people is not good, and has no place in debates or mathematics.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
Raoul Duke
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July 29, 2012, 11:08:28 AM
 #17

Quote from: Usagi
<usagi> Nothing I said online was a lie. As I stated, I am a japanese vampire princess. I am an immortal.

Uuhmmm...

Quote from: Usagi
<usagi> There are never any guarantees
<usagi> I could die tomorrow
<usagi> And then poof
<usagi> Someone would have to tell my wife how to distribute the money lol



Just another G.I.R.L. as usual on the internet...

Raoul Duke
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July 29, 2012, 12:22:52 PM
 #18

Quote from: Usagi
<usagi> Nothing I said online was a lie. As I stated, I am a japanese vampire princess. I am an immortal.

Uuhmmm...

Quote from: Usagi
<usagi> There are never any guarantees
<usagi> I could die tomorrow
<usagi> And then poof
<usagi> Someone would have to tell my wife how to distribute the money lol



Just another G.I.R.L. as usual on the internet...

Thank you for being a staff member here. I notice I am not on your list of scammers. Thank you for treating me fairly in that regard. Although if you feel I am somehow scamming by virtue of being a male or female and not telling people, please feel free to write me up.

I have a list of scammers?  Shocked
You're mistaken. That's not my list.
But if you allow me to make a bold statement... I predict you're not very far from being on that list.
You show all the warning signs.

Also, me being a Staff member has no relation with my personal opinion. If you think I'll be intimidated by that remark of yours you clearly don't know me... Roll Eyes

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July 29, 2012, 03:23:46 PM
 #19

This is going to be fun Smiley
Hopefully this will stop the witch hunt on ponzis and scams that doesn't exist...
//DeaDTerra
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July 29, 2012, 03:31:53 PM
 #20

As for your bold statement, I invite you to provide a list of warning signs. No really. Let's discuss this. Surely you aren't just trolling. You probably honestly believe what you are saying. So let's discuss it. I'm open. I'll change the topic of this thread since it has become a discussion of whether or not I am a scammer. Are you game?

I already replied usagi on PM. But it's probably better to say it here:
I'm not game.

Time will tell what usagi is.
A vampire princess, or a commoner werewolf.
A japanese or a chinese from Taiwan.
An immortal or a simple mortal.
A girl or a guy.

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