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Author Topic: Should Everything Be Decentralized?  (Read 4108 times)
MarihuanaStocks
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February 24, 2015, 11:37:41 AM
 #41

This has a lot to do with Bitcoin, as Bitcoin is a democratic paradigm. Or aren't 51% attacks an issue in "your reality"? Smiley


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February 24, 2015, 01:03:15 PM
 #42

This has a lot to do with Bitcoin, as Bitcoin is a democratic paradigm. Or aren't 51% attacks an issue in "your reality"? Smiley



Bitcoin is a software program and protocol that is a partial solution to a computer science problem called the Byzantine general's problem.  While Bitcoin can be used as a tool for various activities it is not in itself inherently political in nature.  Also, I would point out I say "partial solution" because the mining activity creates the "facts" and those "facts" can be changed with anyone with 51% of the mining power.

As far as that wacko meme about "democracy is a 51% attack" (that Eric Vorhees puts in his signature) it makes no sense.  Voting is about achieving a consensus.  In Bitcoin people "vote" by installing software with consensus rules on their computer.  Comparing those two mechanisms I don't see where one is inherently better than the other.  In some cases one system may work better but it is really a complicated discussion about which one will work better in specific circumstances. 

This is the kind of nonsense that makes Bitcoiners look ridiculous.  You have a rather complicated question about achieving a consensus, something the human race has grappled with for thousands of years.  Then along comes some teenagers and underemployed gamers who claim that using Bitcoin will solve everything.  They think they have proved it by creating some simplistic slogan or meme.  Then they ("they" being people who have generally not accomplished anything) sit around telling everyone they are stupid because they don't agree with some childish proclamation.  Those people over at that Nakamoto "Institute" are some of the worst offenders in this regard. 

So yes, I have heard a bunch of teenagers with no credentials and mental cases like Ver who claim I don't understand what Bitcoin is, that I don't understand reality, that I am a "statist" and on and on.  Of course I see the potential in Bitcoin technology and I invest in it and set up web sites about it and do public events where I describe it to people.  While people discuss using Bitcoin to circumvent banks and such nobody ever asks about collapsing governments, ending war, or replacing the dollar unless it is question about the mental stability of the people making those claims.  If you take the class I think it is highly unlikely the Princeton professor will be making those claims.  That is the reality and if you get off your Internet discussion boards and join the real world you will see that.

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February 24, 2015, 01:11:33 PM
 #43

Maybe we will never obtain a 100% decentralization, because I think the people will start to think decentralization = anarchy but it isn't the same thing. Instead we can decentralize the life aspect as the approach with the government's institutions but it will take some time (and remember the governments can no longer be corrupt, or "bribe").
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February 24, 2015, 01:12:05 PM
 #44

Maybe we will never obtain a 100% decentralization, because I think the people will start to think decentralization = anarchy but it isn't the same thing. Instead we can decentralize the life aspect as the approach with the government's institutions but it will take some time (and remember the governments can no longer be corrupt, or "bribe").

We can try to have peaceful and order decentralisation! Cheesy
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February 24, 2015, 01:28:32 PM
 #45

Maybe we will never obtain a 100% decentralization, because I think the people will start to think decentralization = anarchy but it isn't the same thing. Instead we can decentralize the life aspect as the approach with the government's institutions but it will take some time (and remember the governments can no longer be corrupt, or "bribe").

The slide from the Nakamoto Institute :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPY-5SR-jPQ#t=1063

Of course they use Satoshi's name without permission to try to gain attention for themselves and they claim to know Satoshi's intentions based on cult-like reasoning and wild speculation.  They call themselves an "institute" and give themselves titles like "director of research" yet they have no peer review whatsoever outside their small group of nut jobs and they sit around calling everyone else stupid like a bunch of unemployed teenagers who sit around making fun of people going to work..

You can never stop government corruption or change the fundamental nature of human society by running a blockchain .  You can maybe affect certain things and disrupt some business models but it is not reasonable to expect more than that.  Here is an example of how most people see the Bitcoin "wing nuts" (Note that this guy is starting a business based on cryptocurrencies and not some anti-Bitcoin person)

https://blog.caseykuhlman.com/entries/2014/bitcoin-somaliland.html

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February 24, 2015, 05:53:53 PM
 #46

Yes! it should be , but is it even possible to be 100% Decentralized Huh
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February 24, 2015, 07:39:20 PM
 #47

Maybe we will never obtain a 100% decentralization, because I think the people will start to think decentralization = anarchy but it isn't the same thing. Instead we can decentralize the life aspect as the approach with the government's institutions but it will take some time (and remember the governments can no longer be corrupt, or "bribe").

The slide from the Nakamoto Institute :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPY-5SR-jPQ#t=1063

Of course they use Satoshi's name without permission to try to gain attention for themselves and they claim to know Satoshi's intentions based on cult-like reasoning and wild speculation.  They call themselves an "institute" and give themselves titles like "director of research" yet they have no peer review whatsoever outside their small group of nut jobs and they sit around calling everyone else stupid like a bunch of unemployed teenagers who sit around making fun of people going to work..

You can never stop government corruption or change the fundamental nature of human society by running a blockchain .  You can maybe affect certain things and disrupt some business models but it is not reasonable to expect more than that.  Here is an example of how most people see the Bitcoin "wing nuts" (Note that this guy is starting a business based on cryptocurrencies and not some anti-Bitcoin person)

https://blog.caseykuhlman.com/entries/2014/bitcoin-somaliland.html

I say: Yes, you can! Imagine, that the right ethereum-agent could do all administrative work for a city! If you see a  road hole somewhere, you post it on mist and then all people that are responsible for that street vote for repairing it, so the ethereum agent advertises the work to several company's that return competing offers. Everything transparent, fair and cheap. How nice would that be?

What makes it possible? The Blockchain!

You understand the problem of 51% attacks, but you don't understand the problem with democracy?
If 51% of the people control 100% of the tax-money(in fact they even control money printing)..what do you think will happen? Smiley


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February 24, 2015, 11:03:45 PM
 #48

Maybe we will never obtain a 100% decentralization, because I think the people will start to think decentralization = anarchy but it isn't the same thing. Instead we can decentralize the life aspect as the approach with the government's institutions but it will take some time (and remember the governments can no longer be corrupt, or "bribe").

The slide from the Nakamoto Institute :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPY-5SR-jPQ#t=1063

Of course they use Satoshi's name without permission to try to gain attention for themselves and they claim to know Satoshi's intentions based on cult-like reasoning and wild speculation.  They call themselves an "institute" and give themselves titles like "director of research" yet they have no peer review whatsoever outside their small group of nut jobs and they sit around calling everyone else stupid like a bunch of unemployed teenagers who sit around making fun of people going to work..

You can never stop government corruption or change the fundamental nature of human society by running a blockchain .  You can maybe affect certain things and disrupt some business models but it is not reasonable to expect more than that.  Here is an example of how most people see the Bitcoin "wing nuts" (Note that this guy is starting a business based on cryptocurrencies and not some anti-Bitcoin person)

https://blog.caseykuhlman.com/entries/2014/bitcoin-somaliland.html

Yeah, I hate all these pretentious groups starting with the Bitcoin Foundation. And lol at Nakamoto Institute. Was Nakamoto even asked? Does he even agree with their views? no one should talk in the name of Bitcoin, not even Satoshi himself did it.
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February 25, 2015, 12:13:38 AM
 #49

No, because complete decentralization would be the same as the result of 100% entropy. Of course, if it happened, nobody would care, because there wouldn't be anybody around to care. They would all be decentralized.

 Grin
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February 25, 2015, 02:05:45 AM
 #50

I say: Yes, you can! Imagine, that the right ethereum-agent could do all administrative work for a city!

Can you do that? Most Ethereum-related things I've seen are rather lame.

 
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February 25, 2015, 05:40:02 AM
 #51

I say: Yes, you can! Imagine, that the right ethereum-agent could do all administrative work for a city!

Can you do that? Most Ethereum-related things I've seen are rather lame.

 

I would like to see what ethereum will do (if it will be released). Can it help the decentralization ? Oraclize can do the same (about decentralization) and it has been already released.
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February 25, 2015, 09:15:38 AM
 #52

Maybe we will never obtain a 100% decentralization, because I think the people will start to think decentralization = anarchy but it isn't the same thing. Instead we can decentralize the life aspect as the approach with the government's institutions but it will take some time (and remember the governments can no longer be corrupt, or "bribe").

The slide from the Nakamoto Institute :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPY-5SR-jPQ#t=1063

Of course they use Satoshi's name without permission to try to gain attention for themselves and they claim to know Satoshi's intentions based on cult-like reasoning and wild speculation.  They call themselves an "institute" and give themselves titles like "director of research" yet they have no peer review whatsoever outside their small group of nut jobs and they sit around calling everyone else stupid like a bunch of unemployed teenagers who sit around making fun of people going to work..

You can never stop government corruption or change the fundamental nature of human society by running a blockchain .  You can maybe affect certain things and disrupt some business models but it is not reasonable to expect more than that.  Here is an example of how most people see the Bitcoin "wing nuts" (Note that this guy is starting a business based on cryptocurrencies and not some anti-Bitcoin person)

https://blog.caseykuhlman.com/entries/2014/bitcoin-somaliland.html

I say: Yes, you can! Imagine, that the right ethereum-agent could do all administrative work for a city! If you see a  road hole somewhere, you post it on mist and then all people that are responsible for that street vote for repairing it, so the ethereum agent advertises the work to several company's that return competing offers. Everything transparent, fair and cheap. How nice would that be?

What makes it possible? The Blockchain!

You understand the problem of 51% attacks, but you don't understand the problem with democracy?
If 51% of the people control 100% of the tax-money(in fact they even control money printing)..what do you think will happen? Smiley



Something being possible is not the same as motivation to do something.  It all sounds great if you live your life in a video game or a John Lennon song but this is the real world.

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February 25, 2015, 07:17:41 PM
 #53

First of all i'd say: No dogmatism!

Like Rome wasn't created in one day, so won't Ethereum. What did the internet look like, in the first years? A toy-network for students?

For sure, the internet is not real life. But it helps to connect real live and made a lot of things much easier and cheaper in the past years. Also it undermined censorship and bought truth with an endless mass of independent news channels aso.

Internet allready has done a lot for decentralisation. Now everyone can sell his stuff on amazon, has a platform for his show or music on Youtube. Twitter and Facebook helped destroying totalitarian regimes all around the world.


Not long ago, people said: What do you want with the internet? It's a useless toy for little kids and geeks!

Look at it now...

Blockchain technology is like a new internet. And again i hear the people saying:
Blockchain is far of reality.

Why?

I think the dominating financial system is so far of reality, that this technology is not only needed, it is the true essence of all needs. <3

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February 25, 2015, 07:26:48 PM
 #54

What did the internet look like, in the first years? A toy-network for students?

For the military and government, you mean.

An economy based on endless growth is unsustainable.
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February 25, 2015, 07:30:37 PM
 #55

Depends on which government and military you mean and in which context?

I heard, Erdogan is not really happy about facebook?

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February 25, 2015, 07:33:41 PM
 #56

Depends on which government and military you mean and in which context?

USA. Who do you think developed Internet?

An economy based on endless growth is unsustainable.
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February 25, 2015, 07:35:41 PM
 #57

Depends on which government and military you mean and in which context?

USA. Who do you think developed Internet?


Correct, ARPANET was the first successful project entailing networked computers across the US.


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February 25, 2015, 07:53:40 PM
 #58


Internet allready has done a lot for decentralisation. Now everyone can sell his stuff on amazon, has a platform for his show or music on Youtube. Twitter and Facebook helped destroying totalitarian regimes all around the world.


The Internet did many things just like Bitcoin can do many things but it does not fundamentally change human nature which is what some of the "wing nuts" and cultists are claiming.

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February 25, 2015, 08:12:07 PM
 #59

Yes it was developed in the USA. And yes i know ICANN.

I guess you are talking about issues of data-privacy? But isn't exactly that a central point in
ethereum-development and the whole "CRYPTO-community"? Data-security? Smiley

I mean, Tor, PGP, Bitcoin, Ethereum and so on... Their purpose is to realize more privacy!

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February 25, 2015, 08:18:16 PM
 #60


Internet allready has done a lot for decentralisation. Now everyone can sell his stuff on amazon, has a platform for his show or music on Youtube. Twitter and Facebook helped destroying totalitarian regimes all around the world.


The Internet did many things just like Bitcoin can do many things but it does not fundamentally change human nature which is what some of the "wing nuts" and cultists are claiming.

A friend of mine often talks about some very weird esoteric-stuff. He told me: The peoples minds will be connected..bla..bla..bla..

I said: The peoples minds ARE allready connected!And Web 3.0 is what you are waiting for!

He said: NO! Thats nonsense, it's for kids, NSA and geeks. Smiley

The internet makes what human nature can not do...it connects us ALL.

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