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Author Topic: Should Everything Be Decentralized?  (Read 4107 times)
chmod755
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February 21, 2015, 02:44:47 AM
 #1

Some people in Bitcoin are arguing that everything (or most things) should be decentralized. I firmly disagree with them, and here's why:

1. There's only a limited amount of world-class programmers - if they are working on 1000 different projects it's very likely that 950 of these projects won't be used by more than just a few people - effectively wasting a lot of time that could be used to make a huge project.

2. Usability: Most projects that are trying to "decentralize" are not user-friendly at all. Companies however are building very user-friendly software and manage to actually attract a lot of users (see: coinbase.com)

There are certainly a few cool projects that are decentralized, but most of them will probably remain to be unknown by the general public.

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February 21, 2015, 02:54:16 AM
 #2

An experiment in decentralization is the basis of Bitcoin.
You can make non-decentralized systems all day, but it won't be Bitcoin safe.

Bitcoin is not insurable or refundable (currently). Its a new theory or way of payment processing.

Bitcoin, being used/placed into a centralized system, will always end with massive failure or loss, IMO.


I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
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February 21, 2015, 02:57:55 AM
 #3

Some people in Bitcoin are arguing that everything (or most things) should be decentralized. I firmly disagree with them, and here's why:

1. There's only a limited amount of world-class programmers - if they are working on 1000 different projects it's very likely that 950 of these projects won't be used by more than just a few people - effectively wasting a lot of time that could be used to make a huge project.

2. Usability: Most projects that are trying to "decentralize" are not user-friendly at all. Companies however are building very user-friendly software and manage to actually attract a lot of users (see: coinbase.com)

There are certainly a few cool projects that are decentralized, but most of them will probably remain to be unknown by the general public.

Comments?
I don't think everything should be decentralized.
Centralized has it own advantage.
It can respond much faster.
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February 21, 2015, 03:04:20 AM
 #4

Decentralization is expensive, slow and difficult to do and is not needed or warranted for most things.

If you want to understand Bitcoin you have to learn to ignore the "wing nuts" and focus on the technology.  Many people make exaggerated claims because they are using Bitcoin to promote a political agenda or they are cultists.  I would suggest enrolling in the Princeton U class at https://piazza.com/princeton/spring2015/btctech/home rather than listening to random people who misrepresent or exaggerate things.

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chmod755
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February 21, 2015, 03:09:32 AM
 #5

Bitcoin, being used/placed into a centralized system, will always end with massive failure or loss, IMO.

Does that mean you'd prefer not having the Winklevoss ETF? (even thought that could be a massive boost for Bitcoin)

I don't think everything should be decentralized.
Centralized has it own advantage.
It can respond much faster.

Okay. I just saw people saying that a few times now and wanted to comment on that.
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February 21, 2015, 03:23:00 AM
 #6

Bitcoin, being used/placed into a centralized system, will always end with massive failure or loss, IMO.
Does that mean you'd prefer not having the Winklevoss ETF? (even thought that could be a massive boost for Bitcoin)

Personally, I want bitcoin to become a respected recognized system that is safe and reliable.
It is already designed to be so.
My problem is when I place it into another system that is the opposite of what Bitcoin is.
Then my bitcoins are not safe, prone to loss, loses respect, and ultimately seen as a scam.

If the ETF is insured, then common people will use it. But they won't own BTC, but a piece of paper.
The BTC will be held by Winklevoss in there centralized system, I assume.
If the Winklevoss don't have an independent auditor every so often, how do will we know they have the BTC?

Centralization is fine for normal systems. But when you throw BTC in there, I think we have to be more careful.


I support a decentralized & unregulatable ledger first, with safe scaling over time.
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February 21, 2015, 03:26:39 AM
 #7

Some people in Bitcoin are arguing that everything (or most things) should be decentralized. I firmly disagree with them, and here's why:

1. There's only a limited amount of world-class programmers - if they are working on 1000 different projects it's very likely that 950 of these projects won't be used by more than just a few people - effectively wasting a lot of time that could be used to make a huge project.

2. Usability: Most projects that are trying to "decentralize" are not user-friendly at all. Companies however are building very user-friendly software and manage to actually attract a lot of users (see: coinbase.com)

There are certainly a few cool projects that are decentralized, but most of them will probably remain to be unknown by the general public.

Comments?

As long as participation is voluntary, then you can have all types of projects.
When you have a Gov't forcing centralization, then you have huge problems.

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February 21, 2015, 03:31:23 AM
 #8

Some people in Bitcoin are arguing that everything (or most things) should be decentralized. I firmly disagree with them, and here's why:

1. There's only a limited amount of world-class programmers - if they are working on 1000 different projects it's very likely that 950 of these projects won't be used by more than just a few people - effectively wasting a lot of time that could be used to make a huge project.

2. Usability: Most projects that are trying to "decentralize" are not user-friendly at all. Companies however are building very user-friendly software and manage to actually attract a lot of users (see: coinbase.com)

There are certainly a few cool projects that are decentralized, but most of them will probably remain to be unknown by the general public.

Comments?
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February 21, 2015, 04:27:00 AM
 #9

We should decentralise everything we can in my opinion.
juicyjuice87
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February 21, 2015, 02:04:16 PM
 #10

We should decentralise everything we can in my opinion.

First sensible thing I've read in this forum all day
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February 21, 2015, 02:17:27 PM
 #11

We should decentralise everything we can in my opinion.

First sensible thing I've read in this forum all day

So you are going to have a mining systems for everything?   Are you going to mine at a loss to keep it going?  Do you mine now at home?  If not I have some miners in the attic that will cost you 2 or 3 times as much to run as you will get back in Bitcoin.  Will you run them and spend hundreds per month on electricity for no direct benefit to you?

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February 21, 2015, 02:24:11 PM
 #12

Not everything but the most important things should be decentralized. For example banking system. We don't need centralized banking system and a government which emulate money with no backup. We also don't need centralized exchange systems. Why do we trust them? They say they are hacked and they run anyway.
OTOH we need private companies to produce better and usable things. Technology is developing faster when you have profit realisation. No profit, less development.



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February 21, 2015, 02:27:02 PM
 #13

The Internet started as a decentralised network, basicly it still is, though there are many single points of failure that will break the whole network, something that the initial decentralisation of the network was designed to circumvent. Bitcoin is growing towards that state too, where allready we put our trust in big Chinese mining rigs and online wallet facilities that almost operate like banks! So beware for the mistakes we allready made with decentralised technology and with the old fashioned fiat!!

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February 21, 2015, 02:47:41 PM
 #14

We should decentralise everything we can in my opinion.

First sensible thing I've read in this forum all day

So you are going to have a mining systems for everything?   Are you going to mine at a loss to keep it going?  Do you mine now at home?  If not I have some miners in the attic that will cost you 2 or 3 times as much to run as you will get back in Bitcoin.  Will you run them and spend hundreds per month on electricity for no direct benefit to you?


Idk, I guess in some places is not profitable to mine but where electricity is cheap or free it is profittable. Exchanges should be decentralised to we avoid "hacks" when exchange declare that someone hacked them and vanish with ppls coins. Also decentralisation of everything we can prevent service to be scam and that is also one of main Bitcoin problems.
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February 21, 2015, 02:51:21 PM
 #15

We should decentralise everything we can in my opinion.

First sensible thing I've read in this forum all day

So you are going to have a mining systems for everything?   Are you going to mine at a loss to keep it going?  Do you mine now at home?  If not I have some miners in the attic that will cost you 2 or 3 times as much to run as you will get back in Bitcoin.  Will you run them and spend hundreds per month on electricity for no direct benefit to you?


Idk, I guess in some places is not profitable to mine but where electricity is cheap or free it is profittable. Exchanges should be decentralised to we avoid "hacks" when exchange declare that someone hacked them and vanish with ppls coins. Also decentralisation of everything we can prevent service to be scam and that is also one of main Bitcoin problems.

Decentralisation is not equal to mining, it does require some sort of investment, it will cost you your computerpower and some electricity, but how bad is it to invest in something that will decentralise a part of your wellbeing? How bad is it to contribute to a free-er world without getting financial benefit?

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February 21, 2015, 04:39:11 PM
 #16

We should decentralise everything we can in my opinion.

First sensible thing I've read in this forum all day

So you are going to have a mining systems for everything?   Are you going to mine at a loss to keep it going?  Do you mine now at home?  If not I have some miners in the attic that will cost you 2 or 3 times as much to run as you will get back in Bitcoin.  Will you run them and spend hundreds per month on electricity for no direct benefit to you?


Idk, I guess in some places is not profitable to mine but where electricity is cheap or free it is profittable. Exchanges should be decentralised to we avoid "hacks" when exchange declare that someone hacked them and vanish with ppls coins. Also decentralisation of everything we can prevent service to be scam and that is also one of main Bitcoin problems.

Decentralisation is not equal to mining, it does require some sort of investment, it will cost you your computerpower and some electricity, but how bad is it to invest in something that will decentralise a part of your wellbeing? How bad is it to contribute to a free-er world without getting financial benefit?


Like I said above I suggest enrolling in the Princeton class about Bitcoin because the comments here show that most people posting here don't understand what decentralization is and how it is achieved.  Decentralization does not atomically prevent scams and it almost never the most efficient way of doing things.  In some cases it might be worth it but those cases are in the minority.  Some people here talk about Reddit being "decentralized" because there are upvotes, etc.  If that worked we could just post the blockchain on there and do away with all the mining expenses. 

I never said anything was good or bad, I just pointed out that people won't expend resources without a direct benefit to them.  Saying "other people" should do it then you are back to the centralized system you want to avoid. 

 

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February 21, 2015, 04:47:09 PM
 #17

Some people in Bitcoin are arguing that everything (or most things) should be decentralized. I firmly disagree with them, and here's why:

1. There's only a limited amount of world-class programmers - if they are working on 1000 different projects it's very likely that 950 of these projects won't be used by more than just a few people - effectively wasting a lot of time that could be used to make a huge project.

2. Usability: Most projects that are trying to "decentralize" are not user-friendly at all. Companies however are building very user-friendly software and manage to actually attract a lot of users (see: coinbase.com)

There are certainly a few cool projects that are decentralized, but most of them will probably remain to be unknown by the general public.

Comments?

I think the question is: (Why) Should everything be centralized?

Decentralization gives dev's the opportunity to work in whatever they want, and donate their time accordingly...

As for usability, Internet wasn't suable a few years back. Look at it now... Smiley

A change takes time. And to see if the change is worth it, we must kill that time by making the change happen. Only in the end, when we see the results, we can see if it was worth it. I think it will be, in the long run.
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February 21, 2015, 05:02:06 PM
 #18

Not everything, but there should be decentralized alternatives toward the official centralized ones.

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February 21, 2015, 08:26:12 PM
 #19

Decentralization is expensive, slow and difficult to do and is not needed or warranted for most things.

If you want to understand Bitcoin you have to learn to ignore the "wing nuts" and focus on the technology.  Many people make exaggerated claims because they are using Bitcoin to promote a political agenda or they are cultists.  I would suggest enrolling in the Princeton U class at https://piazza.com/princeton/spring2015/btctech/home rather than listening to random people who misrepresent or exaggerate things.

Really had some messed up comments on this myself , but i won't now
Thank you for the link , this seems pretty helpful for learning Smiley
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February 22, 2015, 12:29:35 AM
 #20

Anarchocapitalist advocates often are out of arguments when confronted about the obvious problems 0% regulation generates.

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