What news/manipulation/hack is responsible for the latest dump?

[MatTheCat]

So bulltards, what news/manipulation/hack is responsible for the latest dump?

It never ceases to amuse me, the utter horseshit that you guys can come up with to 'explain' the market and describe how bullish things inevitably always are, also, schieß los!

P.S. lower range of descending triangle being tested as we speak....actually technically breached but I don't put a lot of faith in the preciseness of these lines and shapes.....

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

Yep, it's called "denial".

Another funny thing is the "bears have run out of coins to dump" fantasy. First it doesn't make sense because that's not how markets work. But most importantly:

I wonder why bears would be short-selling if they still had any coins to dump. I'm thinking they don't.

The never ending fable of "bears running out of coins". Picture book economics.

"Bears don't have coins to dump anymore".

Bitcoiners always tell the funniest stories.

Maybe they should mention the fact that since the $160 bottom 120k coins have been mined. But hey! Bears have run out of coins!
They never say that bulls have run out of fiat tho

[MatTheCat]

I wonder why bears would be short-selling if they still had any coins to dump. I'm thinking they don't.

Urghhh......you quoted billyjoeallen.....

He is like a JimboToronto, but with a few more extra brain cells.....


.....the 'debates' I have had with him about this time last year.......Where to start? Perhaps by pointing out that he has been proven 100% WRONG, yet his tune never changes?

[fonzie]

Edit:

Also:

Vaccines?  Go ahead, believe their lies...
  "Innumerable sicknesses have their origin in one bacillus: the Jew!"--Adolphe L. Pasteur, table talk, 22 February 1942

[12345mm]

welllll let's see ... the latest 5% drop in a half hour ... it could be from some of the 3600 coins mined today , or the day before , or the day before that , which the market is now unable to absorb without borrowed money and fractional reserve (fraudulent) purchasing by the exchanges themselves since not enough new cash is coming in at this point , it could be the 7000 + coins that bter stole a couple days ago have begun being sold , could be a tiny tiny handful sold of the millions of coins possessed by super whales which would instantly crash the price to the single digits if they actually tried to cash them all out at once , could be the thousands of coins from mintpal moolah theft finally being fenced , could be that there were still a few thousand coins from the bitstamp hack theft that got dumped , could be the thousands of coins dumped from the whatever it was called mining ponzi in hongkong , or it could be that karpeles just dumped out another couple thousand coins from the 650,000 he stole from everyone with mtgox , or it could be that a few people who used to be millionaires but made the mistake of getting involved in bitcoin in the last year and a half finally decided that half a million dollars is better than even less , or any other of dozens of fucked up reasons ... take your pick ... this is a market sitting on the head of a pin ... 3 billion valuation with likely less than 3 million on the books of the combined markets ... the game of musical chairs could literally be brought to a sudden and catastrophic end at any point by 1 large enough holder ...

[HeXaN]

No news, they have info, but they dont speak about it

[inca]

welllll let's see ... the latest 5% drop in a half hour ... it could be from some of the 3600 coins mined today , or the day before , or the day before that , which the market is now unable to absorb without borrowed money and fractional reserve (fraudulent) purchasing by the exchanges themselves since not enough new cash is coming in at this point , it could be the 7000 + coins that bter stole a couple days ago have begun being sold , could be a tiny tiny handful sold of the millions of coins possessed by super whales which would instantly crash the price to the single digits if they actually tried to cash them all out at once , could be the thousands of coins from mintpal moolah theft finally being fenced , could be that there were still a few thousand coins from the bitstamp hack theft that got dumped , could be the thousands of coins dumped from the whatever it was called mining ponzi in hongkong , or it could be that karpeles just dumped out another couple thousand coins from the 650,000 he stole from everyone with mtgox , or it could be that a few people who used to be millionaires but made the mistake of getting involved in bitcoin in the last year and a half finally decided that half a million dollars is better than even less , or any other of dozens of fucked up reasons ... take your pick ... this is a market sitting on the head of a pin ... 3 billion valuation with likely less than 3 million on the books of the combined markets ... the game of musical chairs could literally be brought to a sudden and catastrophic end at any point by 1 large enough holder ...

It's just price manipulation. Works both up and down. Traders going to trade.

Do you think a miner (seeking best price for his coins and electricity costs) just dumps 5000 coins onto the open market? Ha.

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

welllll let's see ... the latest 5% drop in a half hour ... it could be from some of the 3600 coins mined today , or the day before , or the day before that , which the market is now unable to absorb without borrowed money and fractional reserve (fraudulent) purchasing by the exchanges themselves since not enough new cash is coming in at this point , it could be the 7000 + coins that bter stole a couple days ago have begun being sold , could be a tiny tiny handful sold of the millions of coins possessed by super whales which would instantly crash the price to the single digits if they actually tried to cash them all out at once , could be the thousands of coins from mintpal moolah theft finally being fenced , could be that there were still a few thousand coins from the bitstamp hack theft that got dumped , could be the thousands of coins dumped from the whatever it was called mining ponzi in hongkong , or it could be that karpeles just dumped out another couple thousand coins from the 650,000 he stole from everyone with mtgox , or it could be that a few people who used to be millionaires but made the mistake of getting involved in bitcoin in the last year and a half finally decided that half a million dollars is better than even less , or any other of dozens of fucked up reasons ... take your pick ... this is a market sitting on the head of a pin ... 3 billion valuation with likely less than 3 million on the books of the combined markets ... the game of musical chairs could literally be brought to a sudden and catastrophic end at any point by 1 large enough holder ...

It's just price manipulation. Works both up and down. Traders going to trade.

Do you think a miner (seeking best price for his coins and electricity costs) just dumps 5000 coins onto the open market? Ha.

Most chinese miners have cheap electricity. I'm guessing if they are still mining most of them are still largely in profit, so a few percent difference is not gonna change things. Price had been going sideways for a while and nobody was actively buying so putting up ask walls wouldn't have helped and selling in small chunks would have taken forever (I'm guessing they probably already sell in small chunks on a daily/weekly basis).

There are so many mined coins in circulation and not much fiat on exchanges, considering that unbalance, eventually stuff like that happens. Supply/demand. Then price hits a technical break, breaks a few important trend lines that traders take that as a sell signal so prices slowly continue downwards.

[inca]

Most chinese miners have cheap electricity. I'm guessing if they are still mining most of them are still largely in profit, so a few percent difference is not gonna change things. Price had been going sideways for a while and nobody was actively buying so putting up ask walls wouldn't have helped and selling in small chunks would have taken forever (I'm guessing they probably already sell in small chunks on a daily/weekly basis).

There are so many mined coins in circulation and not much fiat on exchanges, considering that unbalance, eventually stuff like that happens. Supply/demand. Then price hits a technical break, breaks a few important trend lines that traders take that as a sell signal so prices slowly continue downwards.

If you want credibility as a bear on here, then suggesting that Chinese miners can't be bothered to actually sell their coins gradually to get the best market price probably isn't a great start.

Once you agree that selling like we just witnessed is simply there to paint the chart and push the price through a trend line then we can have an honest conversation. The same thing happens when the price moves upwards. The reality is that the number of coins mined is pretty insignificant compared to total daily trading volume - not even discussing the fact that not all miners sell. These games will go on until it is clear the price cannot be pushed lower through buying support. Watch out above then.

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

Most chinese miners have cheap electricity. I'm guessing if they are still mining most of them are still largely in profit, so a few percent difference is not gonna change things. Price had been going sideways for a while and nobody was actively buying so putting up ask walls wouldn't have helped and selling in small chunks would have taken forever (I'm guessing they probably already sell in small chunks on a daily/weekly basis).

There are so many mined coins in circulation and not much fiat on exchanges, considering that unbalance, eventually stuff like that happens. Supply/demand. Then price hits a technical break, breaks a few important trend lines that traders take that as a sell signal so prices slowly continue downwards.

If you want credibility as a bear on here, then suggesting that Chinese miners can't be bothered to actually sell their coins gradually to get the best market price probably isn't a great start.

Once you agree that selling like we just witnessed is simply there to paint the chart and push the price through a trend line then we can have an honest conversation. The same thing happens when the price moves upwards. The reality is that the number of coins mined is pretty insignificant compared to total daily trading volume - not even discussing the fact that not all miners sell. These games will go on until it is clear the price cannot be pushed lower through buying support. Watch out above then.

You don't know how much in trading volume is coins traded back and forth, that's not what you should look at. Since we are talking about miners dumping, what you should look at is fiat on exchanges that can absorb these dumps, and these amounts are very low and decreasing compared to the insane amount of coins mined, far from being insignificant.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934650.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934650.msg10537338#msg10537338

Simply put -> insane amount of coins mined (supply) + very little (and decreasing) fiat to absorb them (demand) = unbalance, hence downtrend.


But again, coins mined is just factor among many, as a general rule saying that "bears don't have coins to sell anymore" simply doesn't make sense because that's not how markets work.

[inca]

Most chinese miners have cheap electricity. I'm guessing if they are still mining most of them are still largely in profit, so a few percent difference is not gonna change things. Price had been going sideways for a while and nobody was actively buying so putting up ask walls wouldn't have helped and selling in small chunks would have taken forever (I'm guessing they probably already sell in small chunks on a daily/weekly basis).

There are so many mined coins in circulation and not much fiat on exchanges, considering that unbalance, eventually stuff like that happens. Supply/demand. Then price hits a technical break, breaks a few important trend lines that traders take that as a sell signal so prices slowly continue downwards.

If you want credibility as a bear on here, then suggesting that Chinese miners can't be bothered to actually sell their coins gradually to get the best market price probably isn't a great start.

Once you agree that selling like we just witnessed is simply there to paint the chart and push the price through a trend line then we can have an honest conversation. The same thing happens when the price moves upwards. The reality is that the number of coins mined is pretty insignificant compared to total daily trading volume - not even discussing the fact that not all miners sell. These games will go on until it is clear the price cannot be pushed lower through buying support. Watch out above then.

You don't know how much in trading volume is coins traded back and forth, but in general that's not what you should look at. Since we are talking about miners dumping, what you should look at is fiat on exchanges that can absorb these dumps, and these amounts are very low and decreasing compared to the insane amount of coins mined, far from being insignificant.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934650.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934650.msg10537338#msg10537338

Simply put -> insane amount of coins mined (supply) + very little (and decreasing) fiat to absorb them (demand) = general unbalance, hence downtrend.


But again, coins mined is just factor, as a general rule saying that "bears don't have coins to sell anymore" simply doesn't make sense because that's not how markets work.

Interesting idea. I would suggest there is plenty of fiat to drive the price significantly higher than this. It went to 1200 in 2013 remember?

Bitcoins are limited in supply. Fiat currency, in comparison is a vast sea of supply.

Now I have one question: how do you know how much fiat there is on exchange to buy?

[cakir]

I couldn't find anything to responsible for the latest dump.

I think hacks etc are not releated anyway. Prices are manipulated whales...

[chriswen]

Yeah I don't think it has a lot to do with miners.  This was a whale dump.

[blueshoe]

It's not a dump, its a fake pump i would say. Normaly if u can make more money with USD, the money goes to USD and btc is falling. but the last two weeks the price rise and rise. That is not natural in my opinion. I think price should be below $ 200 or yen 1200... we will see what happen. Think the btc price is random. Some guys manipulate the price just to get our money.

[billyjoeallen]

I wonder why bears would be short-selling if they still had any coins to dump. I'm thinking they don't.

Urghhh......you quoted billyjoeallen.....

He is like a JimboToronto, but with a few more extra brain cells.....


.....the 'debates' I have had with him about this time last year.......Where to start? Perhaps by pointing out that he has been proven 100% WRONG, yet his tune never changes?

I did underestimate the depth and duration of the bear market, which may very well still not be over, but I'm still way up on my initial investment from 2011 that composes the bulk of my holdings. In fact, Bitcoin has proven to be remarkably durable in the face of a legion of problems. I've been wrong for fourteen months. I had to hold longer than that underwater after the crash from $32.   This is not a get-rich-quick deal. Traders who are more successful than me profit from volatility, meaning they eat it, reduce it, and make bitcoin more usable. That's one reason why the system is anti-fragile. You don't have to believe in it to make it stronger. You only have to profit.

[jehst]

I wonder why bears would be short-selling if they still had any coins to dump. I'm thinking they don't.

Urghhh......you quoted billyjoeallen.....

He is like a JimboToronto, but with a few more extra brain cells.....


.....the 'debates' I have had with him about this time last year.......Where to start? Perhaps by pointing out that he has been proven 100% WRONG, yet his tune never changes?

I did underestimate the depth and duration of the bear market, which may very well still not be over, but I'm still way up on my initial investment from 2011 that composes the bulk of my holdings. In fact, Bitcoin has proven to be remarkably durable in the face of a legion of problems. I've been wrong for fourteen months. I had to hold longer than that underwater after the crash from $32.   This is not a get-rich-quick deal. Traders who are more successful than me profit from volatility, meaning they eat it, reduce it, and make bitcoin more usable. That's one reason why the system is anti-fragile. You don't have to believe in it to make it stronger. You only have to profit.

People with a cost basis of over $1000 are going to be underwater for longer than any other hodlers in bitcoin history.

[MatTheCat]

welllll let's see ... the latest 5% drop in a half hour ... it could be from some of the 3600 coins mined today , or the day before , or the day before that , which the market is now unable to absorb without borrowed money and fractional reserve (fraudulent) purchasing by the exchanges themselves since not enough new cash is coming in at this point , it could be the 7000 + coins that bter stole a couple days ago have begun being sold , could be a tiny tiny handful sold of the millions of coins possessed by super whales which would instantly crash the price to the single digits if they actually tried to cash them all out at once , could be the thousands of coins from mintpal moolah theft finally being fenced , could be that there were still a few thousand coins from the bitstamp hack theft that got dumped , could be the thousands of coins dumped from the whatever it was called mining ponzi in hongkong , or it could be that karpeles just dumped out another couple thousand coins from the 650,000 he stole from everyone with mtgox , or it could be that a few people who used to be millionaires but made the mistake of getting involved in bitcoin in the last year and a half finally decided that half a million dollars is better than even less , or any other of dozens of fucked up reasons ... take your pick ... this is a market sitting on the head of a pin ... 3 billion valuation with likely less than 3 million on the books of the combined markets ... the game of musical chairs could literally be brought to a sudden and catastrophic end at any point by 1 large enough holder ...

Indeed.

So 12345mm, would you say the resilient support these past 24 hours at $235, is shaping up to provide an extremely bullish case for Bitcoin?

[tabnloz]

[mladen00]

Bter hack

[phoenix1]

I think you will see the answer here ...

https://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-days-destroyed-min-year

Bunch of old coins moved on Saturday, dumped on Sunday ... motivation unknown
Note the timing of the last spike of this size - right at the top of the run up at the end of May