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Author Topic: NFC - The QR Code Killer  (Read 2122 times)
unclemantis
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July 29, 2012, 09:31:21 PM
 #1

Could NFC or Near Field Communication be the next big that Bitcoin needs for offline exchange of Bitcoin?

Thoughts?

http://www.nearfieldcommunication.org/

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July 29, 2012, 09:35:30 PM
 #2

NFC costs more than ink on paper.

Don't you worry about Bitcoin, let me worry about Bitcoin.

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July 29, 2012, 09:41:36 PM
 #3

My belief is yes but we are two to three years away from mainstream adoption.  It is going to be pushed for CC usage but once the hardware (both consumer & merchant) is nearly universal Bitcoin can piggy back off that. 

I have been playing around with a pair of Samsung Galaxy Nexus smartphones.  The tech is trivial to use and will become standardized on android (much like you can't find a smartphone without a camera or GPS in 2-3 years you won't be able to find a smartphone without NFC).

The nice thing about NFC is it provides a platform where you can transmit dynamic content easily.  There will never be a "swiped" Bitcoin card and today that is nearly universal this makes supporting Bitcoin expensive in terms of custom hardware.  You aren't going to see widescale meatspace adoption if merchants can't easily integrate it.  When NFC replaces swiped cards the same hardware can transparently support Bitcoin.  There is no reason to not accept Bitcoin (unless as a merchant you dislike lower fees and no fraud).
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July 29, 2012, 09:53:16 PM
 #4

NFC costs more than ink on paper.

But they are REUSE ABEL.

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July 29, 2012, 11:01:01 PM
 #5

Could NFC or Near Field Communication be the next big that Bitcoin needs for offline exchange of Bitcoin?

Thoughts?

http://www.nearfieldcommunication.org/

NRC requires a chip, QR codes only require software. Looking even farther into the future is "augmented reality" (AR).

Both NFC and QR codes are crackable. I do not know yet about AR.
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July 29, 2012, 11:25:57 PM
 #6

Could NFC or Near Field Communication be the next big that Bitcoin needs for offline exchange of Bitcoin?

Thoughts?

http://www.nearfieldcommunication.org/

NRC requires a chip, QR codes only require software. Looking even farther into the future is "augmented reality" (AR).

Both NFC and QR codes are crackable. I do not know yet about AR.

Well I just tried to store 50 private keys encrypted in a QR code and it is too much info. This is what lead me to find out what the next big thing is and I came across NFC which looks like a neat idea for the offline transactions.

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July 29, 2012, 11:30:42 PM
 #7

Could NFC or Near Field Communication be the next big that Bitcoin needs for offline exchange of Bitcoin?

Thoughts?

http://www.nearfieldcommunication.org/

NRC requires a chip, QR codes only require software. Looking even farther into the future is "augmented reality" (AR).

Both NFC and QR codes are crackable. I do not know yet about AR.

What do you mean crackable? They are just ways to send info.

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July 30, 2012, 02:05:13 AM
 #8

I could see a physical bitcoin kinda like MintChip using this type of tech. It would be good for small amounts using Electrum or Stratum purchases.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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July 30, 2012, 02:08:20 AM
 #9

I could see a physical bitcoin kinda like MintChip using this type of tech. It would be good for small amounts using Electrum or Stratum purchases.

From what I have heard. MintChip sucks.

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July 30, 2012, 02:58:09 AM
 #10

Well I just tried to store 50 private keys encrypted in a QR code and it is too much info. This is what lead me to find out what the next big thing is and I came across NFC which looks like a neat idea for the offline transactions.


That could be accomplished with the right programmer in my inexperienced opinion. What decoder are you using?

I found this:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6249442/secure-encrypted-qr-codes


They are both neat, but RFID has been around longer and is therefore more vulnerable. If QR codes stay out in front in popularity they will become more vulnerable.

h ttp://www.google.com/trends/?q=qr+code,+rfid


I like this idea for RFID : https://bu.mp/

It is totally based on math and is reliable because of it.
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July 30, 2012, 03:08:38 AM
 #11


What do you mean crackable? They are just ways to send info.


http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.05/rfid.html

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/19/rfid-credit-cards-easily-hacked-with-8-reader/


QR codes are not secure if they can easily be photographed. In marketing this is desirable to have them photographed. But when it is guarding a secure link or something, or your Starbucks account, not so much.


http://www.alertboot.com/blog/blogs/endpoint_security/archive/2011/02/09/starbucks-app-not-secure-well-kinda-but-not-anymore.aspx
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July 30, 2012, 05:36:37 AM
 #12

Are you suggesting that some people think that if you put secrets in the clear in a QR code or send it via NFC it makes it secure? I don't see how anyone would think that.

It's like saying English has been cracked or something. Are we on different wavelengths here?

edit: The sane use would be to send someone a public key and amount to pay, nothing sensitive. Are you thinking about a different use?

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July 30, 2012, 05:42:46 AM
 #13

Ohhh scary title. For a moment I thought this would be a story on some type of mind-melting QR code.
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July 30, 2012, 09:57:38 AM
 #14

NFC costs more than ink on paper.

But they are REUSE ABEL.

You mean to go back to wherever the NFC sticker is posted , reconfigure it, check it, repeat ?
That cost something. If you use QR code you are piggy backing on existing logistics (magazines, billboards).
Conversely, the marginal cost of adding a QR code is virtually zero.

Plus if you want a crypto processor in the NFC  tag, you are up to $5 a pop (ex works, no logistics included).
Oh, and one last thing: wait 3-4 years before NFC phones make serious inroads in terms of market share.

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July 30, 2012, 10:04:58 AM
 #15

Corporate Bullshit which translates into Proprietary RFID tech.

do not want.
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July 30, 2012, 11:52:35 AM
 #16

You'd think payment methods would have security high on the goal list.

Sigh,

http://www.esecurityplanet.com/mobile-security/black-hat-nfc-equipped-smartphones-vulnerable-to-attack.html

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July 30, 2012, 03:01:18 PM
 #17

Are you suggesting that some people think that if you put secrets in the clear in a QR code or send it via NFC it makes it secure? I don't see how anyone would think that.



I do not have a percentage for you of how many would "think like that", but those who are not "nerds" could easily think that. We are still in the age where governments of nations still use 12345 as a password.





It's like saying English has been cracked or something. Are we on different wavelengths here?

edit: The sane use would be to send someone a public key and amount to pay, nothing sensitive. Are you thinking about a different use?


English could be used for an example. If a person is from China, English is a "code" to them that they can hear, but can not "decode". Only someone that understands English can "decode" and "download" ( to their brain ) the information (data).

A QR code is something a person can see, but can not decode. It takes a machine to do the decoding. The machine takes the encoded information in the QR code and displays something we ( or another machine ) can use. Humanly speaking, that is translation.


But the example does not yet enter into encryption. A QR code that is encrypted has another layer of encoding, similar to adding pig latin over English.





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July 30, 2012, 03:02:27 PM
 #18

Corporate Bullshit which translates into Proprietary RFID tech.

do not want.


It has limited applications so far .... I am with you.
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July 30, 2012, 08:34:28 PM
 #19

NFC is just a slightly more convenient way to move small amounts of data between devices. It's useful but nothing revolutionary.

You can do offline payments with QRcodes+Bluetooth too. We prototyped it in Berlin on Android.
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July 30, 2012, 08:39:08 PM
 #20

Well, I think the cell phone industry is trying to equate the "nearness" aspect with security. IMO, these sorts of things should be done as an open, patent free (or fully donated) standard and welcome people to bang against it.

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