saddampbuh
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Activity: 1078
Merit: 1014
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February 26, 2015, 08:59:05 AM |
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none whatsoever as others have said, stop thinking "merchant adoption" is going to help the price because it hasn't so far and it wont, merchants are forced to convert the btc back to fiat because they need to pay their bills and taxes in fiat, end of story
btc is useful for buying illegal shit and for holding as a get rich or lose everything gamble (the reason most of are still here if we're being honest), give me one good reason why anyone should wire money to a btc exchange to use that btc on something they could buy with their debit card, there just isn't any point
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Be radical, have principles, be absolute, be that which the bourgeoisie calls an extremist: give yourself without counting or calculating, don't accept what they call ‘the reality of life' and act in such a way that you won't be accepted by that kind of ‘life', never abandon the principle of struggle.
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"Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally
controlled
networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem
to be holding their own." -- Satoshi
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turvarya
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February 26, 2015, 09:21:23 AM |
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I am really amazed that people still don't understand how Bitpay works:
Merchants can decide to keep 0-100% of the Bitcoin they earn. There is no reason to believe that especially a company like Dell(with a lot of profit, so, they don't have to dump all BTC to pay their bills) wouldn't keep a fraction of their Bitcoin.
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ajareselde
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Activity: 1722
Merit: 1000
Satoshi is rolling in his grave. #bitcoin
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February 26, 2015, 09:44:13 AM |
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Good for adoption and acceptance, bad anytime someone makes a purchase, since Dell immediately dumps the coin for fiat. Double-edged sword, but I'll take it for the long run. How come you're sure that theyre going to dump it for fiat? Because they use Coinbase as a payment processor: https://www.coinbase.com/merchantsPayment processor in this context essentially means Bitcoin to Fiat immediately. Which means Bitcoin sold, which means price goes down as soon as a Bitcoin gets sold for fiat. The fact that bitcoins get sold right after dont mean price drop, since that very bitcoin had to be bought first, the price isnt affected in a negative way, it does have positive side because it means bigger adoption, possible new users etc.. If someone is to say that dell , or any other merchant acceptance is bad for bitcoin, theyre wrong, since thats the very point of bitcoin. cheers If you're looking at it with consideration that Dell will sell their bitcoins instantly in a bulk than it will effect the price , as that will be dumping and no matter the increase in number of people , it will decrease the bitcoin rate by little how can it affect the price when bitcoin had to be bought in the first place? at best it would just create more room between bid and ask price. i buy bitcoin, buy on dell site, they sell that bitcoin, the price evens out. its a different thing if you are spending bitcoin u has earlier. cheers |
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Hamuki
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Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
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February 26, 2015, 09:45:20 AM |
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Its good and bad..
Because there is not enough buy pressure for us to be able to accept the amount of Dell and Microsoft is dumping all the time.
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foxkyu
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February 26, 2015, 10:01:22 AM |
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i think no effect on the price
but this is good for marketing bitcoin, that dell embrace bitcoin in uk and canada
this means, other company should aware that there is another payment options is using bitcoin
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koelen3
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Activity: 1022
Merit: 1007
Sooner or later, a man who wears two faces forgets
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February 26, 2015, 12:01:57 PM |
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Good for adoption and acceptance, bad anytime someone makes a purchase, since Dell immediately dumps the coin for fiat. Double-edged sword, but I'll take it for the long run. How come you're sure that theyre going to dump it for fiat? Because they use Coinbase as a payment processor: https://www.coinbase.com/merchantsPayment processor in this context essentially means Bitcoin to Fiat immediately. Which means Bitcoin sold, which means price goes down as soon as a Bitcoin gets sold for fiat. The fact that bitcoins get sold right after dont mean price drop, since that very bitcoin had to be bought first, the price isnt affected in a negative way, it does have positive side because it means bigger adoption, possible new users etc.. If someone is to say that dell , or any other merchant acceptance is bad for bitcoin, theyre wrong, since thats the very point of bitcoin. cheers If you're looking at it with consideration that Dell will sell their bitcoins instantly in a bulk than it will effect the price , as that will be dumping and no matter the increase in number of people , it will decrease the bitcoin rate by little how can it affect the price when bitcoin had to be bought in the first place? at best it would just create more room between bid and ask price. i buy bitcoin, buy on dell site, they sell that bitcoin, the price evens out. its a different thing if you are spending bitcoin u has earlier. cheers Okay let us suppose , there is joe and he buys certain item from his neighbourhood shop , but then the shop owner says i accept cash ,CC and BTC . So will joe pay with cash or think NO i should pay via BTC with all the hassle of learning and doing shit AND then there are you , knowing about bitcoin and shit , you need something from that shop , you go and you have 3 choices , you choose whatever is fine and you pay. So Dell accepting bitcoin is more useful for people already using btc and won't put much effect on buying side |
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Q7
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February 26, 2015, 12:19:22 PM |
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Probably not much for now. Else you should see the price going up. I think the effect would be more profound towards long term because if you have a company successfully integrating bitcoin to their payment system, you will see others which will follow suit and if that expands into every company accepting bitcoin, there will be quite a demand for it. |
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turvarya
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February 26, 2015, 12:23:16 PM |
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Good for adoption and acceptance, bad anytime someone makes a purchase, since Dell immediately dumps the coin for fiat. Double-edged sword, but I'll take it for the long run. How come you're sure that theyre going to dump it for fiat? Because they use Coinbase as a payment processor: https://www.coinbase.com/merchantsPayment processor in this context essentially means Bitcoin to Fiat immediately. Which means Bitcoin sold, which means price goes down as soon as a Bitcoin gets sold for fiat. The fact that bitcoins get sold right after dont mean price drop, since that very bitcoin had to be bought first, the price isnt affected in a negative way, it does have positive side because it means bigger adoption, possible new users etc.. If someone is to say that dell , or any other merchant acceptance is bad for bitcoin, theyre wrong, since thats the very point of bitcoin. cheers If you're looking at it with consideration that Dell will sell their bitcoins instantly in a bulk than it will effect the price , as that will be dumping and no matter the increase in number of people , it will decrease the bitcoin rate by little how can it affect the price when bitcoin had to be bought in the first place? at best it would just create more room between bid and ask price. i buy bitcoin, buy on dell site, they sell that bitcoin, the price evens out. its a different thing if you are spending bitcoin u has earlier. cheers Okay let us suppose , there is joe and he buys certain item from his neighbourhood shop , but then the shop owner says i accept cash ,CC and BTC . So will joe pay with cash or think NO i should pay via BTC with all the hassle of learning and doing shit AND then there are you , knowing about bitcoin and shit , you need something from that shop , you go and you have 3 choices , you choose whatever is fine and you pay. So Dell accepting bitcoin is more useful for people already using btc and won't put much effect on buying side You really don't get it, do you? There a two pretty obvious good things about merchants like Dell accepting Bitcoin: 1. A lot of people still think, Bitcoin is drug money. Have you heard about the Silk Road trial? That is how a lot of people see the use of Bitcoin. So, even when you tell them all the good things about it, they still don't see any use for it, because they don't want to do illegal stuff, so they don't even look into it. That changes when a big player like Dell accepts it, so people think: "Oh, you can also do legal stuff with this Bitcoin, maybe I can use it for something" 2. It makes the market more fluid. I haven't meet anyone, who said, he pays with Bitcoin, but doesn't buy back the amount he used. So, yes, that is the pressure on the buying side. Your example is just plain stupid: Would Joe see, that the merchant accepts Mastercard and go through all the hassle to get one? Same thing. No, he won't just for that one purchase, but after seeing it a couple of times, he might consider going through that hassle. |
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uki
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Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
cryptojunk bag holder
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February 26, 2015, 12:49:49 PM |
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It has zero immediate effect on price, I would say. And in the long-term, it may help to spread the adoption range. We will see further ahead what kind of news follow.
Of course, immediately it will not affect anything. I think it's despair expect the price to be affected immediately. As despair is to expect that every single news that has Bitcoin in either title or body text would have to influence the Bitcoin price. |
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Mr Tea
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February 26, 2015, 01:26:05 PM |
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Good for adoption and acceptance, bad anytime someone makes a purchase, since Dell immediately dumps the coin for fiat. Double-edged sword, but I'll take it for the long run. How come you're sure that theyre going to dump it for fiat? Because they use Coinbase as a payment processor: https://www.coinbase.com/merchantsPayment processor in this context essentially means Bitcoin to Fiat immediately. Which means Bitcoin sold, which means price goes down as soon as a Bitcoin gets sold for fiat. Coins are constantly being bought and sold at exchanges so how is there any sense in this? Are you saying bitcoin needs to be held for the price to rise? This is just some twisted logic people use because they can't find reasons for why bitcoin isn't magically rising all the time so they blame it on people selling their coins. Well what do you expect people to do? The more people that get involved the more demand their is for coins and they need to buy them from somewhere. You might as well blame the miners for selling their coins for fiat too. |
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ChuckBuck
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February 26, 2015, 01:44:58 PM |
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Good for adoption and acceptance, bad anytime someone makes a purchase, since Dell immediately dumps the coin for fiat.
Double-edged sword, but I'll take it for the long run. How come you're sure that theyre going to dump it for fiat? Because they use Coinbase as a payment processor: https://www.coinbase.com/merchantsPayment processor in this context essentially means Bitcoin to Fiat immediately. Which means Bitcoin sold, which means price goes down as soon as a Bitcoin gets sold for fiat. Coins are constantly being bought and sold at exchanges so how is there any sense in this? Are you saying bitcoin needs to be held for the price to rise? This is just some twisted logic people use because they can't find reasons for why bitcoin isn't magically rising all the time so they blame it on people selling their coins. Well what do you expect people to do? The more people that get involved the more demand their is for coins and they need to buy them from somewhere. You might as well blame the miners for selling their coins for fiat too. Guess, you didn't catch my double-edged sword comment above... |
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Daniel91
Legendary
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Activity: 3374
Merit: 1824
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February 26, 2015, 02:01:11 PM |
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Probably not much for now. Else you should see the price going up. I think the effect would be more profound towards long term because if you have a company successfully integrating bitcoin to their payment system, you will see others which will follow suit and if that expands into every company accepting bitcoin, there will be quite a demand for it. I agree with you. One single company as Dell is not enough to change the negative trend right now, bit more such '' big'' companies over period of time can help bitcoin. Many bitcoin users right now don't see ''big picture'' and reacting in fear, selling BTC in panic. For such people, one ''positive'' news like this will not help much but more such positive news can help to change thinking of people, so that they recover their confidence in BTC. |
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evansearle42
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February 26, 2015, 02:25:59 PM |
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It affects us by dropping the price.
I disagree with this. I would say it would help increase the price over the long run as people buy bitcoin with the intention of spending it on dell computers, and then start to use it for other purposes as well |
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Beymond
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February 26, 2015, 03:42:12 PM |
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Well! it will be awesome
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bitgeek
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February 26, 2015, 04:17:41 PM |
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No one buys bitcoin with fiat and pays for the computer with the newly bought bitcoin. The effect is a dump. If they offer a 10% discount for paying with bitcoin, that will be different.  Or start paying their employees with bitcoin. |
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koelen3
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Activity: 1022
Merit: 1007
Sooner or later, a man who wears two faces forgets
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February 27, 2015, 09:18:49 AM |
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You really don't get it, do you?
There a two pretty obvious good things about merchants like Dell accepting Bitcoin:
1. A lot of people still think, Bitcoin is drug money. Have you heard about the Silk Road trial? That is how a lot of people see the use of Bitcoin.
So, even when you tell them all the good things about it, they still don't see any use for it, because they don't want to do illegal stuff, so they don't even look into it. That changes when a big player like Dell accepts it, so people think: "Oh, you can also do legal stuff with this Bitcoin, maybe I can use it for something"
2. It makes the market more fluid. I haven't meet anyone, who said, he pays with Bitcoin, but doesn't buy back the amount he used. So, yes, that is the pressure on the buying side.
Your example is just plain stupid: Would Joe see, that the merchant accepts Mastercard and go through all the hassle to get one? Same thing. No, he won't just for that one purchase, but after seeing it a couple of times, he might consider going through that hassle.
Okay i get what you're saying but what would you say about the effect of dumping by Dell  |
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turvarya
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February 27, 2015, 09:52:18 AM |
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You really don't get it, do you?
There a two pretty obvious good things about merchants like Dell accepting Bitcoin:
1. A lot of people still think, Bitcoin is drug money. Have you heard about the Silk Road trial? That is how a lot of people see the use of Bitcoin.
So, even when you tell them all the good things about it, they still don't see any use for it, because they don't want to do illegal stuff, so they don't even look into it. That changes when a big player like Dell accepts it, so people think: "Oh, you can also do legal stuff with this Bitcoin, maybe I can use it for something"
2. It makes the market more fluid. I haven't meet anyone, who said, he pays with Bitcoin, but doesn't buy back the amount he used. So, yes, that is the pressure on the buying side.
Your example is just plain stupid: Would Joe see, that the merchant accepts Mastercard and go through all the hassle to get one? Same thing. No, he won't just for that one purchase, but after seeing it a couple of times, he might consider going through that hassle.
Okay i get what you're saying but what would you say about the effect of dumping by Dell That is part of the market being fluid. Fluid means, that the price is more stable, since there is so much activity, that a single action wouldn't influence the market much. In theory for every dump of Dell, there is someone refilling his coins. So, there is the same raise at supply and demand, which, in theory, means, that the price isn't affected. I know, most people want the price to raise as quickly as possible, that is not going to happen, by the "using and refilling"-part, that happens by the "more people seeing BTC as a good/legal/usefull thing"-part. |
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koelen3
Legendary
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Activity: 1022
Merit: 1007
Sooner or later, a man who wears two faces forgets
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February 27, 2015, 10:22:58 AM |
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You really don't get it, do you?
There a two pretty obvious good things about merchants like Dell accepting Bitcoin:
1. A lot of people still think, Bitcoin is drug money. Have you heard about the Silk Road trial? That is how a lot of people see the use of Bitcoin.
So, even when you tell them all the good things about it, they still don't see any use for it, because they don't want to do illegal stuff, so they don't even look into it. That changes when a big player like Dell accepts it, so people think: "Oh, you can also do legal stuff with this Bitcoin, maybe I can use it for something"
2. It makes the market more fluid. I haven't meet anyone, who said, he pays with Bitcoin, but doesn't buy back the amount he used. So, yes, that is the pressure on the buying side.
Your example is just plain stupid: Would Joe see, that the merchant accepts Mastercard and go through all the hassle to get one? Same thing. No, he won't just for that one purchase, but after seeing it a couple of times, he might consider going through that hassle.
Okay i get what you're saying but what would you say about the effect of dumping by Dell That is part of the market being fluid. Fluid means, that the price is more stable, since there is so much activity, that a single action wouldn't influence the market much. In theory for every dump of Dell, there is someone refilling his coins. So, there is the same raise at supply and demand, which, in theory, means, that the price isn't affected. I know, most people want the price to raise as quickly as possible, that is not going to happen, by the "using and refilling"-part, that happens by the "more people seeing BTC as a good/legal/usefull thing"-part. I still can't agree with you , let's just wait and see what impact does Dell have on it's value |
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turvarya
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February 27, 2015, 10:29:36 AM |
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You really don't get it, do you?
There a two pretty obvious good things about merchants like Dell accepting Bitcoin:
1. A lot of people still think, Bitcoin is drug money. Have you heard about the Silk Road trial? That is how a lot of people see the use of Bitcoin.
So, even when you tell them all the good things about it, they still don't see any use for it, because they don't want to do illegal stuff, so they don't even look into it. That changes when a big player like Dell accepts it, so people think: "Oh, you can also do legal stuff with this Bitcoin, maybe I can use it for something"
2. It makes the market more fluid. I haven't meet anyone, who said, he pays with Bitcoin, but doesn't buy back the amount he used. So, yes, that is the pressure on the buying side.
Your example is just plain stupid: Would Joe see, that the merchant accepts Mastercard and go through all the hassle to get one? Same thing. No, he won't just for that one purchase, but after seeing it a couple of times, he might consider going through that hassle.
Okay i get what you're saying but what would you say about the effect of dumping by Dell That is part of the market being fluid. Fluid means, that the price is more stable, since there is so much activity, that a single action wouldn't influence the market much. In theory for every dump of Dell, there is someone refilling his coins. So, there is the same raise at supply and demand, which, in theory, means, that the price isn't affected. I know, most people want the price to raise as quickly as possible, that is not going to happen, by the "using and refilling"-part, that happens by the "more people seeing BTC as a good/legal/usefull thing"-part. I still can't agree with you , let's just wait and see what impact does Dell have on it's value I don't think, you can tell, what impact Dell had on the market after some time, since Dell isn't the only player here. I am curious about, which part do you disagree with. |
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koelen3
Legendary
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Activity: 1022
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February 27, 2015, 10:37:15 AM |
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I don't think, you can tell, what impact Dell had on the market after some time, since Dell isn't the only player here.
I am curious about, which part do you disagree with.
Ammmm ...what can i say , am not that good with words. Let us see Dell accepting BTC as a bigger image , that will bring more people and more and more people will buy using BTC but just simply Why would they? I mean it's as simple , an average person prefers thing he is familiar with , though people already familiar to BTC will use to buy products of Dell through BTC but people who have never heard of it might not . When i buy something online , some sites show me many options as Moneypay ,OKpay and all , i just know they are some payment method but i am just familiar with Paypal and credit card and will prefer it over them . Though , it's all about perspective, that's how i see it ~Regards Koelen3 |
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