Do you buy BTC just to use it?

[cafucafucafu]

Many of us keep our coins in cold wallets and they do not get used at all.

I have been thinking about buying extra coins just so I can use them to buy things. I want to help the bitcoin ecosystem and encourage adoption. However it occurred to me that it will cost me more just to do that!

I am a Brit and we don't have any exchanges to buy coins at market rates. I will have to go to localbitcoins or bitbargain.co.uk and these sell at a premium*. Thus I need to actually buy coins at much higher than market prices and then use them to buy things with the coins being at market price. It's a loss for me.

If I was in the USA I would use circle.com and buy the coins with a card. I would need to pay card fees and then buy products with bitcoin at normal price! Again a loss.

If I used an exchange I would still have to pay trading and withdrawal fees. Again I actually need to spend extra just to use bitcoin. This is a real shame.

Merchants really need to make bitcoin purchases cheaper so that we have an incentive to buy those coins and use them. We are saving them card fees, so they can at least cut those fees from the cost. However they don't.

* the cheapest coins at bitbargain right now are £164 which equates to $254. Last price on bitfinex was $239! That is a huge difference. Us brits need an exchange that allows for sterling transfers.

[RodeoX]

I use them all the time. Just bought a cleaning mat a few mins ago. It was not until I started spending them that I really understood why they will change the world.

[cafucafucafu]

I use them all the time. Just bought a cleaning mat a few mins ago. It was not until I started spending them that I really understood why they will change the world.

I want to do this! But it will actually cost me 6% extra for each purchase.

A least my transactions can be anonymous and I don't need to give people my card details, but most people don't care about this. If bitcoin purchases are going to actually cost them more then we really have a problem. I hope the bitcoin entrepreneurs are thinking of solutions.

[redsn0w]

Many of us keep our coins in cold wallets and they do not get used at all.

Keeping coins in cold wallets is using Bitcoin.

No I think you are wrong, keep bitcoins in a cold wallet isn't using bitcoin. Spend them for purchase a lot of things every day, like you do with the FIAT money is "using" them. Sorry if I seem arrogant, but this is my personal opinion.

[RodeoX]

I use them all the time. Just bought a cleaning mat a few mins ago. It was not until I started spending them that I really understood why they will change the world.

I want to do this! But it will actually cost me 6% extra for each purchase.

A least my transactions can be anonymous and I don't need to give people my card details, but most people don't care about this. If bitcoin purchases are going to actually cost them more then we really have a problem. I hope the bitcoin entrepreneurs are thinking of solutions.

6% sucks. I look for places that offer a discount for using them. Places like Overstock and Amagimetals have a bitcoin rate that passes some of their savings on to you. They should not be charging you more as they save 3% when you use BTC instead of a credit card. It is also far more secure for the seller. If you paid with a credit card it will take days to clear and verify your identity. With bitcoin as soon as it confirms they are paid and done.

[cafucafucafu]

I use them all the time. Just bought a cleaning mat a few mins ago. It was not until I started spending them that I really understood why they will change the world.

I want to do this! But it will actually cost me 6% extra for each purchase.

A least my transactions can be anonymous and I don't need to give people my card details, but most people don't care about this. If bitcoin purchases are going to actually cost them more then we really have a problem. I hope the bitcoin entrepreneurs are thinking of solutions.

6% sucks. I look for places that offer a discount for using them. Places like Overstock and Amagimetals have a bitcoin rate that passes some of their savings on to you. They should not be charging you more as they save 3% when you use BTC instead of a credit card. It is also far more secure for the seller. If you paid with a credit card it will take days to clear and verify your identity. With bitcoin as soon as it confirms they are paid and done.

I know some merchants do give discounts. But I will lose the 6% in actually buying bitcoin. If the merchant gives a 3% discount then my loss is reduced to 3%. I guess this is a british problem. We need an exchange for us.

[RodeoX]

I know some merchants do give discounts. But I will lose the 6% in actually buying bitcoin. If the merchant gives a 3% discount then my loss is reduced to 3%. I guess this is a british problem. We need an exchange for us.

Oh I see. That is a harder problem. I loose a bit also trading from dollars. Hopefully we will have a rally soon and our concerns will be swamped by profits.

~Cheers M8

[runpaint]

I always use my bitcoin as soon as I buy it, usually to buy altcoins.  My plan is to sell the altcoins for more BTC, and then when I have enough BTC I'll put it in a cold wallet.

[PenguinFire]

Personally I have only used BTC for online gambling as online gambling is illegal in the states with "real" currency.

[Meuh6879]

Many of us keep our coins in cold wallets and they do not get used at all.

because they don't trust bank to avoid freeze account for bail-out.
if i buy a car or a scooter, sure ... that i ask to the seller if it accept bitcoin.

and i force ...   to accept it (because of the trusted payment).
seller are always open to ... a form of payment (after reading somes explainations).

[Allurestorm]

Unfortunately speculation still takes a large chunk of the bitcoin environment, it seems the only way you have now not to pay 6% premium (or speculator tax) is to earn bitcoins doing something. However, if it wasn't for speculators a single bitcoin would be worth just a few dollars.
We need more competition among exchanges, this will surely bring down the premiums we pay today to purchase bitcoins but also we need to change mentality about bitcoins, when the focus will shift to their usefulness rather than their value in dollars we will see more adoption

[runpaint]

if it wasn't for speculators a single bitcoin would be worth just a few dollars.

Actually it's the miners that determine the minimum price.  Bitcoin could never trade for just a few dollars with the difficulty at its current level.

The price shot up from speculation, and miners brought it back down, but miners also keep it above a certain level.  In the end the real value of a bitcoin is the amount of electricity it takes to mine a bitcoin.  If anybody could mine a bitcoin for $5, then nobody would pay $200.  But they can't, so they do.

When it costs $1000 in electricity to mine 1BTC, the price will be over $1000. 

[HarmonLi]

I love to use Bitcoin as well, but right at the moment is a very bad time to spend Bitcoins because the price has gone down quite a bit. The only solution to this may be buying just as many Bitcoins as you need and spend those, instead of spending coins you bought at $500 or even higher!

[Mr. Burns]

no i stopped doing pot a while ago.  i don't think anyone should use drugs anymore.  cause we are in Heaven

[Mikestang]

Actually it's the miners that determine the minimum price.  Bitcoin could never trade for just a few dollars with the difficulty at its current level.

The price shot up from speculation, and miners brought it back down, but miners also keep it above a certain level.  In the end the real value of a bitcoin is the amount of electricity it takes to mine a bitcoin.  If anybody could mine a bitcoin for $5, then nobody would pay $200.  But they can't, so they do.

When it costs $1000 in electricity to mine 1BTC, the price will be over $1000. 

No, you've got it backwards.  Miners do not determine the price, they react to it.  The price/value of BTC determines the mining effort.  The Bitcoin network difficulty would never be at its current level if Bitcoins weren't so valuable, it's that value people seek and thus build massive farms to try and collect it.  When the mining reward decreases, so will the mining effort, and thus so will network difficulty.

I can see why someone who purchased BTC at a higher value would be reluctant to spend them today, but in the end it is a currency and if you're not spending it then what are you doing buying it?  It should not be purchased as an investment, which I think a lot of people do.  Instead of "buying" BTC it should be looked at as "exchanging" one currency for BTC.  The volatile nature of BTC makes exchanging it profitable in some situations, sure, but I think that's a narrow minded way of looking at it.  No reason to buy BTC unless you plan to use it.

[dothebeats]

Tbh, I only use a fraction of my btc for spending. The rest goes to an offline wallet that I use for saving. Though that's the case, every now and then I use btc as a payment method whenever I want to buy goods online.

[dothebeats]

if it wasn't for speculators a single bitcoin would be worth just a few dollars.

Actually it's the miners that determine the minimum price.  Bitcoin could never trade for just a few dollars with the difficulty at its current level.

The price shot up from speculation, and miners brought it back down, but miners also keep it above a certain level.  In the end the real value of a bitcoin is the amount of electricity it takes to mine a bitcoin.  If anybody could mine a bitcoin for $5, then nobody would pay $200.  But they can't, so they do.

When it costs $1000 in electricity to mine 1BTC, the price will be over $1000. 

If that's the case, how can you explain what happened during November 2013? Is it also because of insanely high electrical bills?

[dothebeats]

Actually it's the miners that determine the minimum price.  Bitcoin could never trade for just a few dollars with the difficulty at its current level.

The price shot up from speculation, and miners brought it back down, but miners also keep it above a certain level.  In the end the real value of a bitcoin is the amount of electricity it takes to mine a bitcoin.  If anybody could mine a bitcoin for $5, then nobody would pay $200.  But they can't, so they do.

When it costs $1000 in electricity to mine 1BTC, the price will be over $1000. 

No, you've got it backwards.  Miners do not determine the price, they react to it.  The price/value of BTC determines the mining effort.  The Bitcoin network difficulty would never be at its current level if Bitcoins weren't so valuable, it's that value people seek and thus build massive farms to try and collect it.  When the mining reward decreases, so will the mining effort, and thus so will network difficulty.

I can see why someone who purchased BTC at a higher value would be reluctant to spend them today, but in the end it is a currency and if you're not spending it then what are you doing buying it?  It should not be purchased as an investment, which I think a lot of people do.  Instead of "buying" BTC it should be looked at as "exchanging" one currency for BTC.  The volatile nature of BTC makes exchanging it profitable in some situations, sure, but I think that's a narrow minded way of looking at it.  No reason to buy BTC unless you plan to use it.

Well, all of us still use it, but not in the way we should be. Most of us use it as a form of investment.

[runpaint]

The price shot up from speculation

If that's the case, how can you explain what happened during November 2013? Is it also because of insanely high electrical bills?

The price shot up from speculation

[H.W.Z]

This is probably one of the major obstacles for masses to adopt it. IMO payroll service is the solution to it. When employees got their regular bitcoin salaries, they would get rid of this kind of annoying experience to pay in bitcoin for anything.