Hacks and thefts are mostly a good sign

[niko]

I was hoping to discuss specific points I made in OP. Electricmucus and lethos can do it, can't you? If you feel like discussing psychotherapy and chain saws, kindly go to off-topic per forum rules.

[Transisto]

We need a Bitcoin related security sub.

plz add your voice
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96089.0

[niko]

We need a Bitcoin related security sub.

plz add your voice
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96089.0

I agree, but my intention here was not to discuss security practices for exchanges. I was trying to discuss the fact that hackers steal coins, and what it tells us about Bitcoin.

[CoinDiver]

Hackers will hack. We all need to get over it. We are dealing with a currency built to operate outside the system, then complain that no one have brought in "the man". Hacks will continue. Someone will find they are particularly good at investigating this sort of crime outside the system, or find they are particularly suited to help sites and services lock down their borders, and they will sell their services at a price. People will continue to not be happy. Hacks will continue. Eventually, someone "the community" trusts will decide to insure financial sites and services, at a price. They will require audits by security professionals, who will do so at a price.

These hacks are not good or bad, they are reality. It does indicate there is value in BTC... but so does my BTC ticker. More importantly it indicated a shortcoming in the market. One that will be filled. More hacks will only force the market to provide the services it requires sooner.

[Transisto]

We need a Bitcoin related security sub.

plz add your voice
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96089.0

I agree, but my intention here was not to discuss security practices for exchanges. I was trying to discuss the fact that hackers steal coins, and what it tells us about Bitcoin.

People steal copper from live power line.  I don't think BTC hacks are a good talking point to prove value.

BTC are being brought at ~10$ that alone is obvious enough to see there is a value.

The fact that most big value hack are so unsophisticated make me believe we ain't seen nothing yet.

There is a big margin between exchange security and personal wallet security.   Try convincing anyone not tech savvy to invest into BTC. They most-all see the risk as too much.  These pple fear getting virus out of nowhere.  

 One word : "multisig"

[commonancestor]

One word : "multisig"

I don't understand why is multisig such a breakthrough, it is kind of multiplying something that already exists, isn't it? Everyday you will be unlocking five gates instead of one, and if a hacker could hack one, so he could hack five. Maybe there are some other uses of it but I can't see the security effect.

[niko]

One word : "multisig"

I don't understand why is multisig such a breakthrough, it is kind of multiplying something that already exists, isn't it? Everyday you will be unlocking five gates instead of one, and if a hacker could hack one, so he could hack five. Maybe there are some other uses of it but I can't see the security effect.

No. You would open one gate, and I would open another. Also, not every day but only when appropriate.

[commonancestor]

No. You would open one gate, and I would open another. Also, not every day but only when appropriate.

Sure, but it is a specialty for people who prefer some well controlled storage, it is like creating a big safe for banks. While some people will use it, the rest are not going to distribute keys to family to unlock them funds on exchanges ...

[notme]

One word : "multisig"

I don't understand why is multisig such a breakthrough, it is kind of multiplying something that already exists, isn't it? Everyday you will be unlocking five gates instead of one, and if a hacker could hack one, so he could hack five. Maybe there are some other uses of it but I can't see the security effect.

No. You would open one gate, and I would open another. Also, not every day but only when appropriate.

Or open one gate on your desktop, then it gets sent to your phone which opens the other gate.  Now the hacker has to hack two devices with a completely different set of software.

[commonancestor]

Or open one gate on your desktop, then it gets sent to your phone which opens the other gate.  Now the hacker has to hack two devices with a completely different set of software.

Perhaps no. Once he hacks the desktop he doesn't have to hack the phone but he just sends the transaction to the phone. Well, this assumes the phone signs it automatically.

If also the phone has to be operated by the user, then it means one more gate to open everyday. Okay, maybe this sounds more from a real life and the tradeoff between security and usability is not that bad.

[notme]

Or open one gate on your desktop, then it gets sent to your phone which opens the other gate.  Now the hacker has to hack two devices with a completely different set of software.

Perhaps no. Once he hacks the desktop he doesn't have to hack the phone but he just sends the transaction to the phone. Well, this assumes the phone signs it automatically.

If also the phone has to be operated also by the user, then it means one more gate to open everyday. Okay, maybe this sounds more from a real life and the tradeoff between security and usability is not that bad.

When this setup is available I will never let my phone sign automatically and I will gladly check the details and touch confirm.  It's more effort, but barely.  The support is there in the client, just no UI yet.  Perhaps when I get my new android tablet in a few weeks I will set it up to be my confirmation device.

[Factory]

I understand the point OP is trying to make, but I believe the title of this thread is incorrect.

Hacks and thefts are not 'mostly' a good sign. While the thefts somewhat validate bitcoin, the overall effect of hacks/thefts are a negative thing for the system on a whole.

We do not need hacks/thefts to help show how valuable bitcoins are. An influx of hacks/thefts can greatly lower the confidence of the users within the system.

[bbit]

On point! 

[szuetam]

On point! 

Agree.

[waspoza]

We do not need hacks/thefts to help show how valuable bitcoins are. An influx of hacks/thefts can greatly lower the confidence of the users within the system.

There are thousands credit card number thefts everyday and still somehow nobody lost faith in credit card.

[CoinCidental]

We do not need hacks/thefts to help show how valuable bitcoins are. An influx of hacks/thefts can greatly lower the confidence of the users within the system.

There are thousands credit card number thefts everyday and still somehow nobody lost faith in credit card.

because you can simply call your bank ,tell them someone in argetina made $10,000 of unauthorised  purchases on your credit card  and they will reverse the transactions

who are you going to call when your btc wallet gets hacked for $10,000 of BTC ?

[kiba]

who are you going to call when your btc wallet gets hacked for $10,000 of BTC ?

The flip side of freedom is responsibility.

[CoinCidental]

who are you going to call when your btc wallet gets hacked for $10,000 of BTC ?

The flip side of freedom is responsibility.

if bitcoin is going to grow to mainstream  ,it has to be more usable

right now its just too complicated for the simple minded average person

even a monkey could use a credit card and  4 digit pin but keeping your coin encrypted well
requires a bit more effort

[Rygon]

Eventually we will see exchanges/financial services with deposit insurance, backed up with BTC and possibly fiat currency. Or something more substantial than a promise to run a secure exchange. There may not be large enough market yet, but if BTC catches on, the casual investor will be more interested in that option.

[niko]

We do not need hacks/thefts to help show how valuable bitcoins are. An influx of hacks/thefts can greatly lower the confidence of the users within the system.

There are thousands credit card number thefts everyday and still somehow nobody lost faith in credit card.

because you can simply call your bank ,tell them someone in argetina made $10,000 of unauthorised  purchases on your credit card  and they will reverse the transactions

who are you going to call when your btc wallet gets hacked for $10,000 of BTC ?

At the risk of starting a derailment of this thread: I would call the police.

I feel there is too much drama about these hacks. As pointed out above, either be more responsible protecting your coins, or call the police, or deal with it some other way if you are anti-police. As far as I am concerned, hacks only prove that (1) Bitcoin works and coins are valuable, and the obvious (2) there are assholes willing to steal your stuff. The second point applies to bitcoins, cash, golden teeth (ask anyone who's been through a civil war), copper wire, bicycles. Still, we don't lose confidence in cash, gold, copper wire, and bicycles just because criminals target them.