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Author Topic: Greed  (Read 3725 times)
notme
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August 01, 2012, 07:19:51 PM
 #21

If not greed, what is the motivation for toxic waste dumping?

lazyness

Is that response because it suits your world view?

I think it's a valid response when combined with apathy.  Many people just don't care.  It's all part of the large ego mindset that is the real problem.

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August 01, 2012, 07:21:00 PM
 #22

If not greed, what is the motivation for toxic waste dumping?

lazyness

Is that response because it suits your world view?

I think it's a valid response when combined with apathy.  Many people just don't care.  It's all part of the large ego mindset that is the real problem.

Apathy, ignorance, willful ignorance, greed and self-interest.
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August 01, 2012, 07:22:19 PM
 #23

If not greed, what is the motivation for toxic waste dumping?

lazyness

Is that response because it suits your world view?

I think it's a valid response when combined with apathy.  Many people just don't care.  It's all part of the large ego mindset that is the real problem.

Apathy, ignorance, willful ignorance, greed and naive self-interest.

FTFY.

It is actually usually in your best interest to care how your actions affect those around you.

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August 01, 2012, 07:24:43 PM
 #24

If not self-interest, then what is the cause of toxic dumping?
Are you saying that people shouldn't act in their own self interest?
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August 01, 2012, 07:25:43 PM
 #25

It is actually usually in your best interest to care how your actions affect those around you.

Assuming poachers almost certainly do understand that most people don't want to see tigers, elephants, gorillas, rhinos and other such animals become decimated, then can you really call their actions motivated by naive self-interest, vs. just plain old self-interest?
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August 01, 2012, 07:27:01 PM
 #26

If not self-interest, then what is the cause of toxic dumping?
Are you saying that people shouldn't act in their own self interest?

Follow along. I'm sure there's a chance you might get the finer nuances of the subject if you try.
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August 01, 2012, 07:41:54 PM
 #27

Greed and self-interest flow to whatever actions suit them, whether or not it is beneficial. It is up to people to shape incentives, monetary and social, to make sure the greed and self-interest flow to beneficial actions instead of malicious actions.

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August 01, 2012, 07:45:50 PM
 #28

"Greed is good" - Gordon Gecko.

"Lunch is for wimps." - Gordon Gecko

I actually haven't seen the movie, but isn't Gecko supposed to be a caricature of the greedy Wallstreet broker, not someone you quote to make a point (unless you want to undermine said point)?

I for one like lunch very much. :-)
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August 01, 2012, 07:58:27 PM
 #29

(2) What it IS, is simple self-interest, which is what most free market supporters accept as OK, and really, one can't argue that.

I can argue that.

If not self-interest, then what is the cause of species going extinct or on the verge of going extinct due to poaching?

Of course there's self-interest there.

My point is, self-interest is not, in and of itself, an evil thing. Arguing against self-interest because it's ubiquitous isn't exactly a profitable exercise (although if you want to argue that self-interest is inherently bad, by all means go right ahead.)

When self-interest BECOMES greed, through one's desires becoming excessive, then there's a problem.

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August 01, 2012, 08:10:20 PM
 #30

"Greed is good" - Gordon Gecko.

"Lunch is for wimps." - Gordon Gecko

I actually haven't seen the movie, but isn't Gecko supposed to be a caricature of the greedy Wallstreet broker, not someone you quote to make a point (unless you want to undermine said point)?

I for one like lunch very much. :-)

That was the intention of the movie (which I also refrained from watching because it would probably just annoy me).

The speech however is spot on. Except that I could make up a better list of examples of greed. Money should be replaced by the word power (money is just a form of highly liquid power) and greed for freedom is also an example I would add to the list.
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August 01, 2012, 08:54:24 PM
 #31

If not self-interest, then what is the cause of toxic dumping?

Government licenses.
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August 01, 2012, 09:41:28 PM
 #32

If not self-interest, then what is the cause of toxic dumping?

Government licenses.
^^this.^^

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August 01, 2012, 10:16:55 PM
 #33

If not greed, then what is the cause of species going extinct or on the verge of going extinct due to poaching?

Sumatran rhino horn is now valued at $30,000 due to its dwindling supply. Nothing like a dwindling supply of Sumatran rhino horn, a sky rocketing price, coupled with greed to accelerate the demise of this species.

Communal property leads to species going extinct.

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myrkul
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August 01, 2012, 10:26:04 PM
 #34

If not greed, then what is the cause of species going extinct or on the verge of going extinct due to poaching?

Sumatran rhino horn is now valued at $30,000 due to its dwindling supply. Nothing like a dwindling supply of Sumatran rhino horn, a sky rocketing price, coupled with greed to accelerate the demise of this species.

Communal property leads to species going extinct.
Consider the case of the Scimitar Oryx:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92996.msg1071383#msg1071383

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westkybitcoins
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August 02, 2012, 12:15:37 AM
 #35

If not greed, then what is the cause of species going extinct or on the verge of going extinct due to poaching?

Sumatran rhino horn is now valued at $30,000 due to its dwindling supply. Nothing like a dwindling supply of Sumatran rhino horn, a sky rocketing price, coupled with greed to accelerate the demise of this species.

Communal property leads to species going extinct.

This one is something I'm surprised still has legs: the idea that declaring a species off-limits (or as belonging to "the commons") helps it to survive.

There's no shortage of cows or chickens. No one holds protests with signs saying "Save the Corn!"

When people are allowed to have ownership of a thing, and have a free market where they can profit from said thing, and have no guarantee of a bailout or entitlement should they screw up, then they have every incentive to manage their property well enough to continue profiting. When it comes to animals & plants, that generally means managing them well enough that they continue to reproduce more.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
...
...
In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
...
...
ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)
...
...
The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
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August 02, 2012, 02:10:43 AM
 #36

If not greed, then what is the cause of species going extinct or on the verge of going extinct due to poaching?

Sumatran rhino horn is now valued at $30,000 due to its dwindling supply. Nothing like a dwindling supply of Sumatran rhino horn, a sky rocketing price, coupled with greed to accelerate the demise of this species.

Communal property leads to species going extinct.

This one is something I'm surprised still has legs: the idea that declaring a species off-limits (or as belonging to "the commons") helps it to survive.

There's no shortage of cows or chickens. No one holds protests with signs saying "Save the Corn!"

When people are allowed to have ownership of a thing, and have a free market where they can profit from said thing, and have no guarantee of a bailout or entitlement should they screw up, then they have every incentive to manage their property well enough to continue profiting. When it comes to animals & plants, that generally means managing them well enough that they continue to reproduce more.

Should I forgive this post for the reason that you just haven't learned enough about ecology and species preservation yet, what its goals are, and how it works? Or are you being willfully ignorant on the subject, and hoping that your misguided post is actually perceived as a solution to what see as the problem? Because I'll tell you, you're missing the problem altogether.
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August 02, 2012, 03:11:54 AM
 #37

It's quite unfortunate, I know. A lot of people judge me without merit before getting to know me.

Giving in to greed isn't the hard part, but it is the most important part. You'll never win big if you don't take risks. The real issue is learning to curb it.

All Greed is good in moderation.
notme
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August 02, 2012, 04:51:25 AM
 #38

It is actually usually in your best interest to care how your actions affect those around you.

Assuming poachers almost certainly do understand that most people don't want to see tigers, elephants, gorillas, rhinos and other such animals become decimated, then can you really call their actions motivated by naive self-interest, vs. just plain old self-interest?

Believing their interests are more important than the interests of their peers is naive.

True self-interest is improving the world so you can live in a better world.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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westkybitcoins
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August 02, 2012, 04:55:26 AM
 #39

If not greed, then what is the cause of species going extinct or on the verge of going extinct due to poaching?

Sumatran rhino horn is now valued at $30,000 due to its dwindling supply. Nothing like a dwindling supply of Sumatran rhino horn, a sky rocketing price, coupled with greed to accelerate the demise of this species.

Communal property leads to species going extinct.

This one is something I'm surprised still has legs: the idea that declaring a species off-limits (or as belonging to "the commons") helps it to survive.

There's no shortage of cows or chickens. No one holds protests with signs saying "Save the Corn!"

When people are allowed to have ownership of a thing, and have a free market where they can profit from said thing, and have no guarantee of a bailout or entitlement should they screw up, then they have every incentive to manage their property well enough to continue profiting. When it comes to animals & plants, that generally means managing them well enough that they continue to reproduce more.

Should I forgive this post for the reason that you just haven't learned enough about ecology and species preservation yet, what its goals are, and how it works? Or are you being willfully ignorant on the subject, and hoping that your misguided post is actually perceived as a solution to what see as the problem? Because I'll tell you, you're missing the problem altogether.

.......

I'll bite.

If it isn't the elimination of a given species, then what is the problem that greed is causing in these instances?

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
...
...
In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
...
...
ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)
...
...
The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
notme
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August 02, 2012, 05:12:29 AM
 #40

If not greed, then what is the cause of species going extinct or on the verge of going extinct due to poaching?

Sumatran rhino horn is now valued at $30,000 due to its dwindling supply. Nothing like a dwindling supply of Sumatran rhino horn, a sky rocketing price, coupled with greed to accelerate the demise of this species.

Communal property leads to species going extinct.

This one is something I'm surprised still has legs: the idea that declaring a species off-limits (or as belonging to "the commons") helps it to survive.

There's no shortage of cows or chickens. No one holds protests with signs saying "Save the Corn!"

When people are allowed to have ownership of a thing, and have a free market where they can profit from said thing, and have no guarantee of a bailout or entitlement should they screw up, then they have every incentive to manage their property well enough to continue profiting. When it comes to animals & plants, that generally means managing them well enough that they continue to reproduce more.

Should I forgive this post for the reason that you just haven't learned enough about ecology and species preservation yet, what its goals are, and how it works? Or are you being willfully ignorant on the subject, and hoping that your misguided post is actually perceived as a solution to what see as the problem? Because I'll tell you, you're missing the problem altogether.

.......

I'll bite.

If it isn't the elimination of a given species, then what is the problem that greed is causing in these instances?


I think he was arguing that in fact the people causing the elimination don't actually own the species.  Their livelihood depends on it, but who cares as long as there are enough for them to harvest within their lifetime?

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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