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Author Topic: Are Bitcoins Martial Law Proof?  (Read 7946 times)
Rarity
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August 01, 2012, 11:03:08 PM
 #21

Your bitcoins ultimately rely on the government to maintain the electrical grid and internet infrastructure, this is one of the reasons pro-big government folks like myself like them so much.  When people use currency like gold or ammunition in the event of an emergency they can trade and barter with it freely, when we use bitcoins control of the market is in the hands of the government.  
The WWW internet infrastructure was inherited from the failed investments of interactive TV. The government had nothing to do with that.

I would know. I lost a lot of money.

You know nothing about the internet.  It was a government project through and through.  

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/wsj-mangles-history-to-argue-government-didnt-launch-the-internet/

Regardless of where it was inherited from, however, it is undeniable government control is possible at this point.  Connections were shut down during the Arab Spring, for example.  You have to work around that to get your message out.  A currency that relies on internet will not work in that situation as well as gold or ammunition will.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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August 01, 2012, 11:06:39 PM
 #22

Your bitcoins ultimately rely on the government to maintain the electrical grid and internet infrastructure, this is one of the reasons pro-big government folks like myself like them so much.  When people use currency like gold or ammunition in the event of an emergency they can trade and barter with it freely, when we use bitcoins control of the market is in the hands of the government.  
The WWW internet infrastructure was inherited from the failed investments of interactive TV. The government had nothing to do with that.

I would know. I lost a lot of money.

You know nothing about the internet, Atlas.  It was a government project through and through.  

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/wsj-mangles-history-to-argue-government-didnt-launch-the-internet/

Regardless of where it was inherited from, however, it is undeniable government control is possible at this point.  Connections were shut down during the Arab Spring, for example.  You have to work around that to get your message out.  A currency that relies on internet will not work in that situation as well as gold or ammunition will.

Ponyboy, I have been using the internet since you were in diapers. Now, if your momma and papa can't help pay for your college and you need Uncle Sam to help you, I can understand the government might be your friend. It has never been mine.

Don't you worry about Bitcoin, let me worry about Bitcoin.

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Rarity
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August 01, 2012, 11:08:01 PM
 #23

Your bitcoins ultimately rely on the government to maintain the electrical grid and internet infrastructure, this is one of the reasons pro-big government folks like myself like them so much.  When people use currency like gold or ammunition in the event of an emergency they can trade and barter with it freely, when we use bitcoins control of the market is in the hands of the government.  
The WWW internet infrastructure was inherited from the failed investments of interactive TV. The government had nothing to do with that.

I would know. I lost a lot of money.

You know nothing about the internet, Atlas.  It was a government project through and through. 

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/wsj-mangles-history-to-argue-government-didnt-launch-the-internet/

Regardless of where it was inherited from, however, it is undeniable government control is possible at this point.  Connections were shut down during the Arab Spring, for example.  You have to work around that to get your message out.  A currency that relies on internet will not work in that situation as well as gold or ammunition will.

Ponyboy, I have been using the internet since you were in diapers. Now, if you're momma and papa can't help pay for your college and you need Uncle Sam to help you, I can understand the government might be your friend. It has never been mine.

Other than when it gave you the Internet I guess, which Bitcoins entirely rely upon to continue to exist.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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August 02, 2012, 12:02:23 AM
 #24

Connections were shut down during the Arab Spring, for example.
Because private companies were forced to comply. The government's direct control is questionable, although their influence is undeniable, as is their monitoring.

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August 02, 2012, 12:06:44 AM
 #25

^ Nothing!



Connections were shut down during the Arab Spring, for example.
Because private companies were forced to comply. The government's direct control is questionable, although their influence is undeniable, as is their monitoring.

Yes, because it is easy for the government to force them to comply.  If they refuse, it's not that hard for an army to shut down a data center.  Cut the power, cut the cables.  This is why people interested in government control support electronic currency as opposed to physical items like gold, guns, and survival supplies.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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August 02, 2012, 12:37:18 AM
 #26

The internet will never die! Except with a huge solar flare  Embarrassed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfz7onsXLO8
http://opensat.cc

Yeah I know I live in a pink unicorn world...
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August 02, 2012, 12:39:06 AM
 #27

Anti-satellite weapons (ASAT) are designed to incapacitate or destroy satellites for strategic military purposes. Currently, only the United States, the former Soviet Union, and the People's Republic of China are known to have developed these weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_weapon

If the major governments of the world want to destroy your satellite, it won't be a problem.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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August 02, 2012, 12:43:44 AM
 #28

I think the world government will mutually destroys themselves before I launch my first blockchain satellite.
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August 02, 2012, 12:49:16 AM
 #29

I think the world government will mutually destroys themselves before I launch my first blockchain satellite.

I doubt the US or China are going anywhere in the next few centuries.  China is historically an incredibly stable civilization and America is backed up by the most incredibly powerful military the world has ever seen.  The two nations will keep the peace in the interest of their real goals,  world economic domination and control of information.  Replacing physical currencies with easily monitored and regulated electronic currencies like Bitcoin is merely a step in that process.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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August 02, 2012, 12:54:31 AM
 #30

I think the world government will mutually destroys themselves before I launch my first blockchain satellite.

I doubt the US or China are going anywhere in the next few centuries.  China is historically an incredibly stable civilization and America is backed up by the most incredibly powerful military the world has ever seen.  The two nations will keep the peace in the interest of their real goals,  world economic domination and control of information.  Replacing physical currencies with easily monitored and regulated electronic currencies like Bitcoin is merely a step in that process.
So you're saying I will never launch my own satellite?

Thank's for bringing me back to reality.  Sad
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August 02, 2012, 12:59:24 AM
 #31

Shh, no ones supposed to know googles secret plan for taking over the world yet.

Google is actually fighting against this sort of thing.  They have come into quite a bit of conflict with the US and Chinese governments, including hacking of Google servers by China as one consequence.  They have to learn that governments have the right to make their own rules for online interactions, and since they haven't yet Google actually has to direct Chinese users to a site in Hong Kong for their searches.  The Chinese government still manages to censor the results, as is their right and easily within their technical capability. 

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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August 02, 2012, 01:01:51 AM
 #32

I think the world government will mutually destroys themselves before I launch my first blockchain satellite.

I doubt the US or China are going anywhere in the next few centuries.  China is historically an incredibly stable civilization and America is backed up by the most incredibly powerful military the world has ever seen.  The two nations will keep the peace in the interest of their real goals,  world economic domination and control of information.  Replacing physical currencies with easily monitored and regulated electronic currencies like Bitcoin is merely a step in that process.

Rome was really stable too... until it wasn't.

Empire-building ends as well - ask the UK, they used to have colonies everywhere.

I think it is funny that your thesis for bitcoin to be 'easily monitored and regulated' would require most of the North American internet to be cut off. Good luck convincing businesses, or even installing the infrastructure needed to do so.

So, are you just a troll? Or do you really believe these twisted theories?

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
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August 02, 2012, 01:09:41 AM
 #33

I think the world government will mutually destroys themselves before I launch my first blockchain satellite.

I doubt the US or China are going anywhere in the next few centuries.  China is historically an incredibly stable civilization and America is backed up by the most incredibly powerful military the world has ever seen.  The two nations will keep the peace in the interest of their real goals,  world economic domination and control of information.  Replacing physical currencies with easily monitored and regulated electronic currencies like Bitcoin is merely a step in that process.

Rome was really stable too... until it wasn't.

Empire-building ends as well - ask the UK, they used to have colonies everywhere.

I think it is funny that your thesis for bitcoin to be 'easily monitored and regulated' would require most of the North American internet to be cut off. Good luck convincing businesses, or even installing the infrastructure needed to do so.

So, are you just a troll? Or do you really believe these twisted theories?


Rome collapsed over centuries and survived for centuries more as the Byzantine Empire.  China isn't going anywhere soon, and will remain a power even if its form evolves or changes.

Quote
I think it is funny that your thesis for bitcoin to be 'easily monitored and regulated' would require most of the North American internet to be cut off. Good luck convincing businesses, or even installing the infrastructure needed to do so.

We are already discussing a period of martial law, if you don't think cutting off power and internet to restore order in such a situation is plausible you haven't really been paying attention to history (where much more drastic measures have been taken) or world events.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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August 02, 2012, 01:13:17 AM
 #34

We are already discussing a period of martial law, if you don't think cutting off power and internet to restore order in such a situation is plausible you haven't really been paying attention to history (where much more drastic measures have been taken) or world events.

Cutting off power restores order? Ah, so *that* is what they were doing over in India a few days ago, restoring ORDER.

If the US uses martial law, you've got bigger problems, like leaving the country. I think the cached block-chain in other spots in the world will allow bitcoin to survive just fine, thanks.

But don't listen to me, keep stirring that pot...

fortitudinem multis - catenum regit omnia
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August 02, 2012, 01:17:09 AM
 #35

We are already discussing a period of martial law, if you don't think cutting off power and internet to restore order in such a situation is plausible you haven't really been paying attention to history (where much more drastic measures have been taken) or world events.

Cutting off power restores order? Ah, so *that* is what they were doing over in India a few days ago, restoring ORDER.

If the US uses martial law, you've got bigger problems, like leaving the country. I think the cached block-chain in other spots in the world will allow bitcoin to survive just fine, thanks.

But don't listen to me, keep stirring that pot...


A power outage is not the same thing as martial law.  I mean, come on dude, marching riot police down the street in the middle of the day for no reason would cause disorder too.  In the case of a RIOT however, it restores order.  Apply some critical thinking here please.

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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August 02, 2012, 01:21:13 AM
 #36

So, are you just a troll? Or do you really believe these twisted theories?

These things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.  Rarity is a well known troll on these forums it seems.
Whether s/he believes in the things s/he says is debatable...  s/he could just be a very good satirist...
it is hard to believe anyone could believe in the things s/he claims to believe in.  How could anyone
who seems to feel that 'friendship is magic' really hold such monstrous ideas?   
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August 02, 2012, 01:24:51 AM
 #37

How are my ideas monstrous?  Huh

v Any robust large scale mesh network is still dependent on the electrical infrastructure.  If you seriously want a currency that can survive martial law, it can't be electronic. 

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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August 02, 2012, 01:25:07 AM
 #38

Bitcoin could thrive without the Internet as we know it today, actually.

It will just take a bit of work.

https://projectmeshnet.org/
https://wiki.projectmeshnet.org/Getting_started
http://cjdns.info/
http://hyperboria.net/
reddit.com/r/darknetplan

As for dealing with loss of an electrical infrastructure... I suppose it could be argued that the whole thing could be powered by decentralized solar and wind energy, but at that point... well, we've got other things to worry about than Bitcoin.



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August 02, 2012, 01:34:35 AM
 #39

How are my ideas monstrous?  Huh

The stripping away of individual liberties in favor of greater government control of our lives... 

Is there anyone here besides you who feels this is a positive socio-economic evolution?
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August 02, 2012, 01:42:03 AM
 #40

How are my ideas monstrous?  Huh

The stripping away of individual liberties in favor of greater government control of our lives... 

Is there anyone here besides you who feels this is a positive socio-economic evolution?

As a personal philosophy I don't believe in using liberty as an excuse to harm yourself or others, that is all.  It isn't a very controversial statement, suicide and assaulting others are generally not respected as a right.  I'm not sure what that has to do with the question of how resilient a currency is to martial law, however, do you disagree that gold and weapons and supplies have greater resistance than a currency dependent on government infrastructure?

"Money is like manure: Spread around, it helps things grow. Piled up in one place, it just stinks."
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