DGulari (OP)
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KawBet.com - Anonymous Bitcoin Casino & Sportsbook
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March 02, 2015, 11:58:14 PM |
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Wouldn't it be better if just made 1,000,000 Block Erupters and a special hash algorithm that only those limited number of hardware devices could do. Distribute those 1M devices and let that be the entire hash pool.
hashing power went way out of control, now the bitcoin community is sending over $10 dollars/day (in fiat no less) to power companies all over the world. That money doesn't come from nowhere - it is real money lost by the community. We've got to find an end to wasteful hashing.
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DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis
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March 03, 2015, 12:03:21 AM |
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There is no 'special hash algorithm' that can only be performed by a certain number of devices. What happens when someone makes another million of these devices and has control over the network? Even if the algorithm was closed source what prevents reverse engineering, or those involved from cheating. You would have a trustless decentralized network which was completely centralized and requires eternal trust in those who set it up. I think I would pass.
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DieJohnny
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March 03, 2015, 12:04:09 AM |
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most electricity is used or lost, what is the big deal....
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Those who hold and those who are without property have ever formed distinct interests in society
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inBitweTrust
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March 03, 2015, 12:13:33 AM |
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hashing power went way out of control, now the bitcoin community is sending over $10 dollars/day (in fiat no less) to power companies all over the world. That money doesn't come from nowhere - it is real money lost by the community. We've got to find an end to wasteful hashing.
The plan from the beginning was to gradually move over from the block reward paying for security to tx fees paying for security just like with PoS. This is part of the process with the scalability roadmap where block we will go from 2-7 tps up to 140 tps and thus bring in up to ~2520 usd in tx fees to cover securing the blockchain. PoS algos will temporarily remain more efficient because of this transition process but bitcoin has the benefit of better security and a fairer distribution based upon risk and effort and not simply stake. Eventually, economic pressures from the costs of electricity should force miners to both centralize and decentralize at the same time. You should expect to see very specialized mining farms using cheap renewable energy and recapturing heat energy to produce goods or services. On the other end you should also see decentralization occurring to allow individuals who heat anything to do so with mining to save money instead of just heating up filaments. |
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CtrlAltBernanke420
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March 03, 2015, 12:38:26 AM |
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The cash system IE ATM's and Cash in every register/POS across the world needs safes, guns, Armored trucks, Employees to handle and transport this money, Think of all the fuel in every armored vehicle truck and all the waste from the employees who live their life, you fuel to get to work, to handle cash, while using fuel to drive the armored truck around, so on a so forth, you can begin to realize the expenses involved in securely handling cash…
It is a monstrous waste of gasoline and fossil fuels among other resources to secure cash. Perhaps look to the military which backs the government, taxation, which in turn funds wars to secure the petrol-dollar system. Lives are lost on a daily basis to defend the dollar system. Not just money spent and fuel burned.
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ladyfox
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March 03, 2015, 12:40:21 AM |
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Did u know large amount of electricity cannot be stored n what the electricity companies produce has to be used.. So y not use it on miners.. Lol
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CtrlAltBernanke420
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March 03, 2015, 12:42:48 AM |
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Did u know large amount of electricity cannot be stored n what the electricity companies produce has to be used.. So y not use it on miners.. Lol
The problem i think that is being pointed out, is that you will be charged to use electricity that otherwise would be wasted… A decent solution to this has been proposed even if it was a pie in the sky idea, is that power plants get into bitcoin mining to secure the network with their otherwise wasted excess, and no dollars should be paid on what otherwise would be wasted energy. Paying for wasted energy is what is wasteful. |
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Godforbit
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March 03, 2015, 01:11:29 AM |
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If Nikola Tesla had his way we'd all have free wireless electricity.
Rip Tesla.
We spend alot more resources digging up gold and precious metals from the ground, that it makes the cost of mining bitcoin seem trivial in comparison.
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Icardi09
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March 03, 2015, 01:55:17 AM |
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That electricity cost is for keeping bitcoin network safe, and in same way the miners get reward from mining. Same way with real mining industry, it needs power of electricity to mine precious metal and process it. Best things is hope bitcoin price will increase to cover electricity bill. The cash system IE ATM's and Cash in every register/POS across the world needs safes, guns, Armored trucks, Employees to handle and transport this money, Think of all the fuel in every armored vehicle truck and all the waste from the employees who live their life, you fuel to get to work, to handle cash, while using fuel to drive the armored truck around, so on a so forth, you can begin to realize the expenses involved in securely handling cash…
It is a monstrous waste of gasoline and fossil fuels among other resources to secure cash. Perhaps look to the military which backs the government, taxation, which in turn funds wars to secure the petrol-dollar system. Lives are lost on a daily basis to defend the dollar system. Not just money spent and fuel burned.
well said, never think like this before. So cash system too need a lot of electricity power to keep their network works fine |
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H.W.Z
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March 03, 2015, 01:59:00 AM |
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So long as bitcoin blockchain technology and protocol makes our life easier, the waste of electricity is worth it.
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thejaytiesto
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March 03, 2015, 02:00:51 AM |
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There is no 'special hash algorithm' that can only be performed by a certain number of devices. What happens when someone makes another million of these devices and has control over the network? Even if the algorithm was closed source what prevents reverse engineering, or those involved from cheating. You would have a trustless decentralized network which was completely centralized and requires eternal trust in those who set it up. I think I would pass.
This sums it up. If it was easier, anyone with a ton of money could penetrate the network and create trouble. But since it's so ridiculously hard, the amount of electricity you would need makes it pointless since you would make more gains by being a legitimate participant in the network rather than trying to attack it with say a double spending or whatever. |
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beetcoin
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March 03, 2015, 02:10:19 AM |
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It's a cost that is required, just like the energy it takes to print notes and press coins. You're "wasting" natural resources + electricity.. why aren't we complaining about that too then?
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Beliathon
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March 03, 2015, 02:11:30 AM |
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Wouldn't it be better if just made 1,000,000 Block Erupters and a special hash algorithm that only those limited number of hardware devices could do. Distribute those 1M devices and let that be the entire hash pool.
hashing power went way out of control, now the bitcoin community is sending over $10 dollars/day (in fiat no less) to power companies all over the world. That money doesn't come from nowhere - it is real money lost by the community. We've got to find an end to wasteful hashing.
The only thing that's an extreme waste of electricity is the computer you're using to write this garbage. Bitcoin is not a waste of energy. Please read the entire Myths Wiki before posting another thread: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MythsWelcome to the bitcointalk forums. |
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viboracecata
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Varanida : Fair & Transparent Digital Ecosystem
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March 03, 2015, 02:14:26 AM |
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this cost is far less than the cost we maintain the bank system in the real world
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Beliathon
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March 03, 2015, 02:16:13 AM |
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this cost is far less than the cost we maintain the bank system in the real world
We should try to avoid language that falsely implies the internet is any less "real" than physical space. |
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sherbyspark
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March 03, 2015, 05:19:06 AM |
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Well this has always been argued. it is due to this , that we have coins which make use of the hashing -power for other scientific and mathematical calculations. But like others argued without it , we will be nowehere.
An Analogy would be all the resources and things wasted in running banks, mining gold etc.
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Kprawn
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March 03, 2015, 05:35:47 AM |
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I switch on a light, it consumes electricity, but it provides me with a source of light. I switch on a kettle, it consumes electricity, but it provides me with hot water. I switch on a television, it consumes electricity, but it provides me with entertainment. I switch on a block erupter, it consumes electricity, but it provides me with bitcoins. So where is the waste? One provides light, the other hot water and also entertainment... The miner provides for a working currency and a source of income. I fail to see the difference.  |
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kpitti
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March 03, 2015, 07:37:53 AM |
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if there will no mining cost the people will dump for cheap that will crash bitcoin price
it is the mining cost that keep its price high
Mining is there to confirm transactions, find blocks. It`s necessary and mandatory part of the Bitcoin. Price of Bitcoin vs Fiat is based on Demand. |
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kpitti
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March 03, 2015, 07:40:13 AM |
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Wouldn't it be better if just made 1,000,000 Block Erupters and a special hash algorithm that only those limited number of hardware devices could do. Distribute those 1M devices and let that be the entire hash pool.
hashing power went way out of control, now the bitcoin community is sending over $10 dollars/day (in fiat no less) to power companies all over the world. That money doesn't come from nowhere - it is real money lost by the community. We've got to find an end to wasteful hashing.
Do you know how much power is consumed by mining farm? Do you know how much power needs for example one big IT center for Bank or Big company? I would say that there is not big difference. Electricity can`t be stored efficently. |
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