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Author Topic: Satoshi's spare change?  (Read 8083 times)
Alex Beckenham
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May 26, 2011, 01:43:24 PM
 #61

You need to give those items the proper weighting:

  • a concern troll
  • economically ignorant
  • jealous

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Cusipzzz
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May 26, 2011, 02:15:42 PM
 #62

sending .01BTC to satoshi is the new sending .02USD to kidpoker on pokerstars (when that was legal).

As far as the bitter people, i mean 'make bitcoin more fair people' - please start your own blockchain. When others who share your view join, and accept the new coins for goods and services, and it becomes stronger than the original bitcoin chain - I will be the first to congratulate you. Seriously.

http://BTCSportsBet.com - The most complete bitcoin Sportsbook - All games from pro and college sports, Champions League, E-Sports, and reduced juice as well!
John Tobey
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May 26, 2011, 02:32:16 PM
 #63

I'm pretty sure this is what we have been telling you to do. If you don't like the Bitcoin blockchain for whatever reason, feel free to start your own block chain. Just don't try to make us change ours.

BitterTea, on this we are in violent agreement.  http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=violent%20agreement

If you suggest, further, that this forum is inappropriate for seeking interest and discussing how to go about starting it, well, I would like to hear about that from a moderator.  Perhaps a new topic or section, once it becomes more than an idea.

Can a change to the best-chain criteria protect against 51% to 90+% attacks without a hard fork?
amincd
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May 26, 2011, 02:42:09 PM
 #64

Quote from: johntobey
In brief: BTC has value, as judged by the market.  Some of its value derives from some people's belief that BTC may one day dominate world trade, largely replacing USD and the rest.  Some of us (apparently a minority--but that's okay!) value BTC less than if those early blocks had been generated at higher difficulty and/or appeared to be in circulation.  In our global, industrial culture, money can be leveraged into power (and often back into more money).

You're being overly paranoid IMO. In any speculative venture, there are always early adopters that are rewarded big for their initiative. The early adopters not only discovered it, but in the case of Satoshi, created the technology. It's fair that they are rewarded.

I think you also have an economic misconception that a sum of money equals permanent control of a percentage of the economy denominated in that currency equal to the percentage of the currency someone holds, in perpetuity. In reality, each dollar or bitcoin is traded numerous times. Having a certain percentage of currency at any given time only gives one a tiny slice of all wealth over a long time frame.

Also, the 20% that the early adopters have now will only be 7% once bitcoin has expanded to 20 million. They can only spend it once. After they've spent it, it will be spent over and over again by others.


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May 26, 2011, 02:44:28 PM
 #65

<snipped some well-thought-out ideas>

Thanks!

So jontobey253 outlines a way of "rebooting" the currency. Fortunately, people supporting this move can already achieve the same effect unilaterally using transaction "shunning" as outlined in http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3441.msg50075#msg50075

If you think that people who were mining when the difficulty was low have unfairly acquired their bitcoins and you wish to take them out of the economy for some reason you could check that any payments you and your supporters accept (and obviously make) have never used any of the coins mined during the "too easy" period. If someone tries to pay you using these old coins or any transaction which was derived from the old coins then you return them and explain why they are not acceptable.

If sufficient people agree with you to shun certain coins then they are effectively unspendable and are removed from the economy even more effectively than if the associated private keys had been lost.

ByteCoin

I don't like this idea for three reasons.  One, the difficulty of choosing a set of coins that enough people would agree on.  Two, headache in demultiplexing messages about the two chains.  Three, Bitcoin address overlap.  A new chain would have a different network identifier and, hence, addresses beginning in a character other than '1', and could coexist with BTC on the current network.

Can a change to the best-chain criteria protect against 51% to 90+% attacks without a hard fork?
BitterTea
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May 26, 2011, 02:48:00 PM
 #66

BitterTea, on this we are in violent agreement.  http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=violent%20agreement

If you suggest, further, that this forum is inappropriate for seeking interest and discussing how to go about starting it, well, I would like to hear about that from a moderator.  Perhaps a new topic or section, once it becomes more than an idea.

I was responding to the idea (not necessarily yours) that BTC is "unfair" and should be changed to suit those who did not or could not enter the market until now. Since nobody is forced to use it, I don't see how it could possibly be unfair, and those that think so should start their own block chain. Your post seemed to imply that early adopters think that alternate block chains should be repressed, but I think you will find the truth to be the exact opposite. It is entirely possibly I read too much into your post, but it seems to be a common belief, becoming more common as the USD/BTC exchange rate rises.

I don't think discussion of alternate block chains should be banned in any way. I do think it is disingenous and bordering on fraudulent to make claims that the bitcoin economy is controlled by a small number of participants, to the detriment of all the rest. In fact, it is because of the early adopters that bitcoin has such value today.
John Tobey
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May 26, 2011, 02:57:55 PM
 #67

Or if you alternate BTC is gonna be really great I'll be buying with both fists .... I don't see what this big objection to the "early adopters" is all about. The forum archives are full of all the evidence you need that this wasn't some masterful conspiracy to accumulate great wealth and power .... basically nobody wanted the stuff 18 months ago and before that hardly anybody had heard about it, let alone assumed it was a road to riches ... go read the posts for yourself ... begin with the 10,000 BTC for 2 pizzas. How's that for a conspiratorial early adopter?

Minute, I think you get me wrong.  I don't think the early adopters with lots of BTC aspire to huge wealth and power.  I think he/she/they did it for reasons that I would approve of.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if Satoshi himself would like to see a new chain outcompete BTC.

But I do not know these things with enough certainty for comfort.

Can a change to the best-chain criteria protect against 51% to 90+% attacks without a hard fork?
markm
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May 30, 2011, 05:33:07 PM
 #68

There *are* other block chains. Go hunt them down and maybe even set up more exchanges between them all so they can more readily reach their relative market values.

It would be fun to have an exchange featuring hundreds of them a like a penny stock stockmarket game kind of thing in effect.

-MarkM-

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