The end of copyright and patent is where we should be headed

[CIYAM]

The concepts of copyright and patent are very much 20th century ones.

The idea of trying to control "copies" made sense when you had to have expensive equipment to make the copies and the idea of allowing people to hold control over the new inventions made sense when you didn't have a way for everyone to communicate.

But we don't live in the 20th century anymore.

What we see now is that in the US companies try and keep copyrights alive "forever" (just look at how many years they keep extending the time frame for copyright on music) and with patents many corporations are able to just "stifle" any development of new ideas (which was supposed to be the very point of patents) which is why it has taken so long for many alternative energy technologies to even appear.

We don't need these "artifacts of the past" as we have "crowd funding" and "crowd sourcing" to get things done much more efficiently.

Let's stop supporting antiquated ideas and start pushing forward some new thinking (this is the space that Bitcoin is a big part of).

[1715224555]

1715224555

[Swordsoffreedom]

In agreement that their should be new models of revenue sharing such as Itunes digital copies etc is where development needs to grow
Also reimbursing artists directly less major studios but more cooperatives
Plus Mickey Mouse laws .... some copyrights are beyond ridiculous.

[Jakesy]

The concepts of copyright and patent are very much 20th century ones.

The idea of trying to control "copies" made sense when you had to have expensive equipment to make the copies and the idea of allowing people to hold control over the new inventions made sense when you didn't have a way for everyone to communicate.

But we don't live in the 20th century anymore.

What we see now is that in the US companies try and keep copyrights alive "forever" (just look at how many years they keep extending the time frame for copyright on music) and with patents many corporations are able to just "stifle" any development of new ideas (which was supposed to be the very point of patents) which is why it has taken so long for many alternative energy technologies to even appear.

We don't need these "artifacts of the past" as we have "crowd funding" and "crowd sourcing" to get things done much more efficiently.

Let's stop supporting antiquated ideas and start pushing forward some new thinking (this is the space that Bitcoin is a big part of).

100% agree.  We still live by and abide by a set of rules that were created before a lot of our technology nowadays.  Society is completely and vastly different than it was just 50 years ago. 

We need to figure out a way to adapt and adopt as a human race.  We're such small picture beings...

Who knows, maybe we'll all work together in the future when we realize it's just one short life we have - ownership of ANYTHING doesn't matter in the long run.  Let's make our lives here the best they possibly can be during our short tenure on Earth.  I doubt I'll get to see this in my lifetime.

[Lauda]

The copyright laws have done nobody any good besides the greedy, and already rich people. One could find examples in almost every industry. A fine example is the music industry.                                                   Patents are just like obstacles that are causing trouble when someone is trying to make something new.

One should try patenting a patent request. 

[newIndia]

The concepts of copyright and patent are very much 20th century ones.

The idea of trying to control "copies" made sense when you had to have expensive equipment to make the copies and the idea of allowing people to hold control over the new inventions made sense when you didn't have a way for everyone to communicate.

But we don't live in the 20th century anymore.

What we see now is that in the US companies try and keep copyrights alive "forever" (just look at how many years they keep extending the time frame for copyright on music) and with patents many corporations are able to just "stifle" any development of new ideas (which was supposed to be the very point of patents) which is why it has taken so long for many alternative energy technologies to even appear.

We don't need these "artifacts of the past" as we have "crowd funding" and "crowd sourcing" to get things done much more efficiently.

Let's stop supporting antiquated ideas and start pushing forward some new thinking (this is the space that Bitcoin is a big part of).

Contact https://twitter.com/kimdotcom and join https://internet.org.nz/

[Beliathon]

The concepts of copyright and patent are very much 20th century ones.

The idea of trying to control "copies" made sense when you had to have expensive equipment to make the copies and the idea of allowing people to hold control over the new inventions made sense when you didn't have a way for everyone to communicate.

But we don't live in the 20th century anymore.

What we see now is that in the US companies try and keep copyrights alive "forever" (just look at how many years they keep extending the time frame for copyright on music) and with patents many corporations are able to just "stifle" any development of new ideas (which was supposed to be the very point of patents) which is why it has taken so long for many alternative energy technologies to even appear.

We don't need these "artifacts of the past" as we have "crowd funding" and "crowd sourcing" to get things done much more efficiently.

Let's stop supporting antiquated ideas and start pushing forward some new thinking (this is the space that Bitcoin is a big part of).

Couldn't agree more, patents and copyrights are completely out of place and counter-productive in the digital age. One of the challenges of our time will be destroying the stigma against culture sharing ("piracy").

The near-future is decentralized, open-source, and crowdfunded, that much is clear. Disobedience equals progress here, folks. Obedience means stagnancy.

[pawel7777]

I wouldn't say that all patent/copyrights laws are wrong. If you created successful brand, you should be able to somehow protect it from competitors who would just rip off your logo/name and confuse customers.

But things got out of hand, what was meant to be a 'protection' turned into full blown industry. Recent lawsuit lost by apple (~$500m) to some small company who only capitalise on holding patents, proves the case:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/25/apple-loses-patent-case-to-small-texas-company/?_r=0


Other problem is the amount of ridiculous 'inventions' being granted. My personal favourite is the guy from Australia who managed to patent a wheel (although he did it to show how bad the new patent laws are):

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn965-wheel-patented-in-australia.html

An Australian man has been issued with an innovation patent for the wheel after setting out to test the workability of a new national patent system.

John Keogh was issued the innovation patent for a "circular transportation facilitation device" under a patent system introduced in May 2001.

[gentlemand]

One of the challenges of our time will be destroying the stigma against culture sharing ("piracy").

I'm not so sold on that.

It's great that someone enjoys a download. The mugs who poured a ton of time, money and talent into making it available deserve compensating.

Crowd funding and micro payment may well be the way forward, but there's a pretty mucky middle ground to be crossed yet.

Anyone under 35 or so effectively assumes that all media can be free. We may end up up to our noses in self indulgent shite that's given away.  I'd rather pay for some professional standards and filtration.

[Joshuar]

The concepts of copyright and patent are very much 20th century ones.

The idea of trying to control "copies" made sense when you had to have expensive equipment to make the copies and the idea of allowing people to hold control over the new inventions made sense when you didn't have a way for everyone to communicate.

But we don't live in the 20th century anymore.

What we see now is that in the US companies try and keep copyrights alive "forever" (just look at how many years they keep extending the time frame for copyright on music) and with patents many corporations are able to just "stifle" any development of new ideas (which was supposed to be the very point of patents) which is why it has taken so long for many alternative energy technologies to even appear.

We don't need these "artifacts of the past" as we have "crowd funding" and "crowd sourcing" to get things done much more efficiently.

Let's stop supporting antiquated ideas and start pushing forward some new thinking (this is the space that Bitcoin is a big part of).

I entirely disagree. It's in the fact the opposite of what you propose. Copyright laws encourage entrepreneurs to do and create new things(inventions, ideas, and the like). Yes, Bitcoin's open source initiative is great, but you cannot expect everything in life to be open-sourced, just as you cannot expect everything in life to be decentralized(It's way too costly and some things are close to impossible to decentralize and still have a working product, such as a company or school). Alternative energy(If were talking about electricity and others being an alternative for oil as an ex), has been around for a long time, it's just that oil has such a grip and is so profitable for countries and companies, that it's hard for other alternate sources to make a big appearance as of yet.

I agree only upto the point that there are some people that abuse the copyright system, such a the guy who patented SSL(and has been sueing companies and winning for over a decade).But for most people, copyright laws is a protection for them so that their hard work doesn't get ripped of by some fool who copies them. Ending something as needed as Copyright laws would ensure utter chaos(As scammers take advantage and try to pass of other people's products as their own, without fear of being prosecuted). It would be x100 worse than the current haven scammers have with Bitcoin based services(All those ponzi schemes, exchanges stealing coins, etc).

[runpaint]

If you guys hate the right to private property, which is the foundation of all freedoms, then go live in the USSR.  Wait, it doesn't exist anymore?

Nobody will spend millions of dollars to cure diseases, if their discoveries can be used equally by people who spent nothing.

Nobody will buy a microphone for $100,000 to record an album, if they can't sell that album because everyone else is giving it away for free.

Nobody will spend 3 years writing a book, if that book will not be their own property.

[Beliathon]

If you guys hate the right to private property, which is the foundation of all freedoms, then go live in the USSR.

Private property isn't a human right enjoyed by all, it is an often inherited privilege enjoyed by a fraction of the human population. If you trace back through time you'd find that damn near all property can be linked to past violence.
If we as a civilization are to ever reject violence as a legitimate tool, we must begin by rejecting the over-engineered resource allocation which was forged in the blood of our forebears.

Nobody will spend millions of dollars to cure diseases, if their discoveries can be used equally by people who spent nothing.

Nobody will buy a microphone for $100,000 to record an album, if they can't sell that album because everyone else is giving it away for free.

Nobody will spend 3 years writing a book, if that book will not be their own property.

How many songs go unsung, how many books go unwritten, how much genius is wasted because the would-be writers, artists, and authors are instead wasting their lives scrambling to make next month's rent? We'll never know what might have been.

Fortunately for the future denizens of Earth, civilization will continue to socially evolve whether you butthurt capitalists like it or not.

[ajareselde]

Wouldnt that open up another problem with people who will exploit no copyright laws, and just steal other proples ideas?
Imagine working on a project and investing alot of time and money into research, and someone just copies your findings and uses as their own?
Either im missing out on something or u didnt think this through.

cheers

[runpaint]

How many songs go unsung, how many books go unwritten, how much genius is wasted because the would-be writers, artists, and authors are instead wasting their lives scrambling to make next month's rent?

Yes, most of them are poor, and now you want to take away their right to make money from their work.  

If you actually care about the truth, compare the number of songs and books written in the past 100 years to the number of songs and books written in the rest of human history.

And if you really want to see the majority of songs unsung and books unwritten, take away any chance for people to make a living doing it.

[Beliathon]

Wouldn't that open up another problem with people who will exploit no copyright laws, and just steal other peoples ideas?

The idea that we should tolerate "ownership" of ideas in the information age shows just how insidious and malignant the profit motive has grown in our time. We shouldn't even tolerate ownership of bits of earth, let alone ideas.

Yes, most of them are poor, and now you want to take away their right to make money from their work.

Or we could provide decent baseline food, shelter, healthcare, and education to all human beings as a birthright. What would art look like in a world where potential artists aren't forced to work soul-crushing jobs just to survive, their suffering often robbing them of creativity and passion?

And if you really want to see the majority of songs unsung and books unwritten, take away any chance for people to make a living doing it.

You're defending the same capitalism that has systematically defunded the arts over the course of the past three decades, the same system which has made common the use of the phrase "starving artist", the same culture which isn't disgusted by the ubiquity of that phrase.

[runpaint]

Or we could provide decent baseline food, shelter, healthcare, and education to all human beings as a birthright.

You sound like a spoiled child.  Where will all this food and healthcare come from?  Do you think money, goods, and services automatically appear every time a baby is born?

Throughout human history, starvation and death have been the everyday norm.  Now that we have finally found a system that changes that, you whine because it takes work.

What would art look like in a world where potential artists aren't forced to work soul-crushing jobs just to survive

Take it up with God, or nature.  We have to eat, and food isn't free.  If you actually expect that to change, you're an idiot.

Nobody forces anybody to work.  That's just life.  If you don't want to work, then don't.  Most people who call themselves artists have never done a day's work, and they get paid accordingly.

If you want to remove all suffering from all artists, then say goodbye to Van Gogh, Beethoven, Emily Dickinson, and pretty much every good artist.

You're defending the same capitalism that has systematically defunded the arts over the course of the past three decades

No, it hasn't. 

the same system which has made common the use of the phrase "starving artist"

Starving artists existed before the modern era, and so did loudmouths who are angry at the world for not giving them everything for free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starving_artist

[Joshuar]

Wouldnt that open up another problem with people who will exploit no copyright laws, and just steal other proples ideas?
Imagine working on a project and investing alot of time and money into research, and someone just copies your findings and uses as their own?
Either im missing out on something or u didnt think this through.

cheers

Precisely.

[runpaint]

Private property isn't a human right enjoyed by all, it is an often inherited privilege enjoyed by a fraction of the human population.

Can I walk into your house right now, push you away from your computer, and start using that computer for myself?

You're so privileged that you have the privilege of pretending you're not privileged.

Personal property rights are the foundation of all civilization, and the only people against it are those who want to tear down all of civilization.  

If you trace back through time you'd find that damn near all property can be linked to past violence.

So are all of our lives.  All of us are descended from a few murderers and rapists, and we wouldn't have been born without the violence of our ancestors.  

What are you going to do about that?  Is there anything you can do, other than kill yourself?

The near-future is decentralized, open-source, and crowdfunded, that much is clear

Crowdfunding has no future, too many cultural Marxists have already ruined it by scamming too much.  Too many of your beloved "starving artists" took their $100,000 and produced nothing.

[ajareselde]

Wouldn't that open up another problem with people who will exploit no copyright laws, and just steal other peoples ideas?

The idea that we should tolerate "ownership" of ideas in the information age shows just how insidious and malignant the profit motive has grown in our time. We shouldn't even tolerate ownership of bits of earth, let alone ideas.

Yes, i understand how frustrating it can be knowing that someone "owns an idea", and in some ideal society it would be nonsence to do so, but we live in a capitalist age,
and knowing that it takes money to fund research to bring ideas through trial and error's into a working product, it would be insane to asume that someone wouldnt exploit that.
And without "ownership of bits of earth" you would gain freedom of movement, but there would be alot of people wanting the same spot under the sun, how would you
regulate that, if not by ownership of some sort ?

cheers

[Beliathon]

If you trace back through time you'd find that damn near all property can be linked to past violence.

So are all of our lives.  All of us are descended from a few murderers and rapists, and we wouldn't have been born without the violence of our ancestors.  

What are you going to do about that?

Nothing, because as you yourself admitted, there's nothing that can be done. The clever reader may note that this is very much NOT THE CASE when it comes to the possibility of egalitarian distribution of resources.

You sound like a spoiled child.

You can do better than weak ad hominem attacks, no?

Where will all this food and healthcare come from?

Capitalism wastes food on an industrial scale. Whatever comes after will by necessity be much more efficient at resource distribution.

The health-profit parasite industry we call "Health Insurance" in this country is widely regarded as toxic mimic of real health care. It's almost darkly comical how bad it is in the USA, and reveals well the dangers of mass indoctrination and mass obedience.

Health Insurance execs are laughing their way to the bank with bloodmoney earned from denying access to healthcare to millions of Americans, including countless dead children. That's the reality you're supposed to accept because "capitalism", dear reader.

Do you think money, goods, and services automatically appear every time a baby is born?

I think in the 21st century, the exchange of money is going to become an irrelevant ritual from a bygone era, no more necessary for feeding the children of the world than it is for coercing primates to fuck.

Throughout human history, starvation and death have been the everyday norm.

You could say the same for slavery, torture, and rape. Still, I think you'll agree we should seek to distance civilization from these as much as possible given the technology at our disposal.

Take it up with God

I don't see how superstition is going to be anything but a hindrance here.

... or nature.  We have to eat, and food isn't free.

All food on this planet is free until the violence-enforced profit motive builds a big ass barbed-wire fence around it. I have this theory that the more a person talks about human nature, the less they understand about it. Listening to a capitalist preach about human nature is about as useful as listening to a priest talk to you about science. As a civilized primate, the first thing you need to understand about your nature is that it is being held hostage by a lifetime of cultural indoctrination. That is step one on the road to recovery.

.If you actually expect that to change, you're an idiot.

I expect everything to change when it comes to human existence. In fact I expect continuous change to be the only constant.

Nobody forces anybody to work.  That's just life.

The Royal Navy probably said something similarly fascistic to the men they press-ganged into service aboard their ships. Nevertheless, the militant social movement called piracy blossomed in the face of these lies.

In other news, Foxconn constructed huge nets around their massive factory-dorms to prevent further worker suicides. When you say "that's just life", what you mean is "that's just life for the working poor of the world. The rich don't have to work."

If you don't want to work, then don't.

“America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you’ve lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn’t belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don’t care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve.”
― Tom Morello

Yes, i understand how frustrating it can be knowing that someone "owns an idea", and in some ideal society it would be nonsence to do so, but we live in a capitalist age

Not for long.

Personal property rights are the foundation of all civilization, and the only people against it are those who want to tear down all of civilization.

That's precisely why private property has been so difficult to shake. Modern capitalism predates the age of science itself, it's built into the very architecture of our language (e.g. "I don't buy that").

It's no wonder we're at such a loss as to where to go from here, as we stand by helplessly watching capitalism die, as the life support of neverending debt slowly fails.

A very old lie is easily mistaken for the truth. But how feeble does a ten thousand year old lie become the day it first meets the truth? Ask any scientist.
 

[runpaint]

You sound like a spoiled child.

You can do better than weak ad hominem attacks, no?

Actually I was providing a valid comparison between you and a spoiled child, which can be explored thoroughly to explain your motives and solutions.

It's not just a weak insult, like when you started by calling me a "butthurt capitalist" and then came back to whine like a child about ad hominems.

Capitalism wastes food on an industrial scale. Whatever comes after will by necessity be much more efficient at resource distribution.

You claim that any system will be better, which is how you excuse your lack of a better alternative.  Fortunately for the rest of us, history has countless examples of alternative systems which are vastly inferior.

I think in the 21st century money is going to quickly become an irrelevant ritual from a bygone era

Wasn't that supposed to be the 20th century?  Marxism had more than enough chances.  It failed.

Throughout human history, starvation and death have been the everyday norm.

You could say the same for slavery, torture, and rape.

Are you trying to bring those back too?  Your ideas have been proven to result in plenty of starvation and death, but you are correct in mentioning the slavery, torture, and rape that are happening in North Korea thanks to people like you.

Take it up with God, or nature.

I don't see how superstition is going to be anything but a hindrance here.

You think nature is a superstition?  Then go ahead and test it scientifically.  Just stop eating, and see how long you last.  Otherwise, we can all agree that work and survival are not anyone's fault, but something we all are born into with no possible end short of death.

... or nature.  We have to eat, and food isn't free.

All food on this planet is free until the violence-enforced profit motive builds a big ass barbed-wire fence around it.

That makes no sense.  At what point in history did humans have more food than they now have?  At what point in history did people not starve?  At what point in history would a starving man willingly let another man take all his food, "for free"?

I have this theory that the more a person talks about human nature, the less they understand about it.

And I've noticed that the more a person whines about capitalism, the less he understands about anything at all.

Listening to a capitalist preach about human nature is about as useful as listening to a priest talk to you about science.

I just thought I'd try to explain to you that humans need to eat, and nobody can be blamed for that fact.  Obviously it was a waste of time to explain the most basic facts of existence to you.

As a civilized primate, the first thing you need to understand about your nature is that it is being held hostage by a lifetime of cultural indoctrination.

That's the first thing?  Before eating?  Because plenty of communists starved to death after they got rid of capitalism, rich people, and private property. 

But not cultural indoctrination, you'll never get rid of that.  It's your #1 favorite thing, which is why communists never give up their propaganda even while they starve.  Go ahead and trade your food for your zealous beliefs, but don't get so angry when the rest of us choose food over hatred of everyone who has more than us.

.If you actually expect that to change, you're an idiot.

I expect everything to change when it comes to human existence.

Cool story.  You expect us to stop dying, and to stop requiring food.  Then by all means, go start your utopia of immortals.  Meanwhile, those of us who need food will continue either working or starving.

Nobody forces anybody to work.  That's just life.

The Royal Navy probably said something similarly fascistic to the men they press-ganged into service aboard their ships.

What, this year?  I thought you were just whining about current circumstances.  Are you also blaming everything in history on our current system, retroactively?

In other news, Foxconn constructed huge nets around their massive factory-dorms to prevent further worker suicides.

And you're blaming what happens in China on capitalism?  Too bad you have to blame communism first.

“America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace.

Yes, the main complaint of whiny children is that someone else is in charge.  They hate their parents, they hate the government, they hate anyone who has more money, and they hate the idea of God. 

The problem is that once you've made yourself the sole authority over your own life, who will you blame for all your problems?

Once you exercise this freedom you’ve lost all control over what you do

Actually you can quit the job whenever you want.  Sorry for pointing out the fact that everything you said is bullshit.

And in the end, the product doesn’t belong to you.

Oh no!  GM factory workers don't own thousands of automobiles?  Let's riot!

Children love to whine about "fair pay", but they don't really want fair pay.  Because when the factory loses money and/or goes bankrupt, none of the workers want to pay their fair share of the debt.  They don't want to pay their fair share to buy and maintain the equipment, and, again, they can quit anytime they want and go work somewhere else.

The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don’t care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve.”

Exactly.  If you don't want to eat, then don't work.  That's been the case since the first human got hungry, and no revolution will ever change the fact that we need to eat.  So what is your point?

― Tom Morello

Made one good album, 24 years ago.  AND HE GOT PAID A LOT OF ROYALTIES THANKS TO COPYRIGHT LAWS, WHICH IS THE ONLY REASON YOU'RE QUOTING HIM.