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Author Topic: Jumping between pools as they slow down?  (Read 1860 times)
thedreamer
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March 08, 2015, 04:11:14 AM
 #1

Somebody mentioned it to me before, but I'm not sure what the hive mind thinks.

If you have all your Hashes going to a Pool that is stuck in a rutt for a long block, past I think 8 hours or so, do you jump to another one to try to make up for that day's loss, then back once the block is done?

Is this something people do?

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kano
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March 08, 2015, 04:39:41 AM
 #2

Somebody mentioned it to me before, but I'm not sure what the hive mind thinks.

If you have all your Hashes going to a Pool that is stuck in a rutt for a long block, past I think 8 hours or so, do you jump to another one to try to make up for that day's loss, then back once the block is done?

Is this something people do?
For PPLNS only:
As I mentioned in my thread ... the last longest block we had, all the shares in it got paid in full, and the shares on the end of it got paid more - in fact it was ~160% PPS for around the last 40-50%Diff shares in that 316% block.
So if you left before the long block finished, you missed the extra.
That's random, but a simple example of why hopping can be a bad idea.

However, the simple statistics of it are certain, past luck doesn't affect future luck.
Gambler's Fallacy as mentioned many times before Smiley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

Of course if a pool's block history/orphans is affected by something other than luck, like crappy code Smiley, or stealing/hiding blocks, or not meeting their stated payouts, or ?, then that's a different issue.
In that case you shouldn't be mining there in the first place Tongue

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
thedreamer
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March 08, 2015, 04:51:45 AM
 #3

Just asking, as I'm new to the pool mining thaaang.  Cheesy

I'll just stick on kano then. Just hard to see days where the earnings are 1/3 they should be.  Grin

I have to get used to not being able to average or estimate the income as some days will just be better than others and at the end it should equal out.

Maybe I can average per a weekly or monthly basis.



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pokeyjones
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March 08, 2015, 07:48:55 AM
 #4

Once you understand what "averaging" is you'll be that much closer to your answer.

i pool hop because i'm inpatient and immature and stupid. i've been sticking to my pool and just sticking to it. it has to pay sometime!
aurel57
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March 08, 2015, 10:43:14 AM
 #5

It depends on which pool your on just how bad you get hurt. As on Slush or p2pool if you hop off you can very well lose all your work and get paid zero for your shares.
In stead of pool hoping you can just split your miners up between a couple of pools makes more sense.
jonnybravo0311
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March 08, 2015, 02:43:43 PM
 #6

It depends on which pool your on just how bad you get hurt. As on Slush or p2pool if you hop off you can very well lose all your work and get paid zero for your shares.
In stead of pool hoping you can just split your miners up between a couple of pools makes more sense.
P2Pool is PPLNS, so you only lose your work once N has passed.  This is why PPLNS discourages pool hopping, because it takes you N to ramp up to your fully expected payout.  P2Pool can make it seem even worse since you could feasibly mine there for quite some time without getting a share onto the chain.

@thedreamer - you are always going to see variance in your payouts no matter where you mine.  Sure, you'll have days where you make 1/3 of expectations.  Then you'll have days where you make 500%.  It's the nature of the beast.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
thedreamer
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March 08, 2015, 07:43:40 PM
 #7

I think I'll try to divide my hashes evenly 'Balance' it between 2 pools instead of hopping.

Thanks guys!

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philipma1957
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March 08, 2015, 08:00:00 PM
 #8

I think I'll try to divide my hashes evenly 'Balance' it between 2 pools instead of hopping.

Thanks guys!


Yep I mine 10th  at

kano= https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.0-----------------1.3th

ck = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=763510.0------------------- 3gh a usb stick   this is a solo pool all or nothing close to  25btc if you mine the block

mmpool = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=559011.0-------------1.8th

ban = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=854368.0------------------1.4th

west-nicehash = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=893133.0------1.4th

discus fish = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=700411.0----------4.2th


I shift around a little but mostly stick to the pattern above. Shoot me a pm about strategies.

 I like using the sp20's as they have many pools to list for rollover. but antminers have 3 and that works.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
aurel57
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March 08, 2015, 08:32:25 PM
 #9

I think I'll try to divide my hashes evenly 'Balance' it between 2 pools instead of hopping.

Thanks guys!

Good idea... I have mine split between BAN paying PPS so I get a set amount paid and Kano's pool paying PPLNS and am happy. I also have the miners on BAN set to rent hash on Westhash when the price hits my threshold.
alh
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March 13, 2015, 05:40:29 AM
 #10

What I have never understood is that if you have a single  "large" miner (e.g. an SP20), and then decide to provide multiple pools to it, doesn't that just appear to be "pool hopping" at the whim of the mining software?

I have routinely mined at Slush. It always seemed to me that if I provided a "backup pool", then as soon as there is a hiccup with Slush, then as viewed by Slush I have "pool hopped" off to wherever. This seems to run counter to the "don't pool hop" strategy.

I completely understand splitting up multiple miners amongst pools, but I've never had enough hashpower to make that beneficial it would seem.

What am I not understanding about multiple pools here?
DrHaribo
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March 13, 2015, 08:51:29 AM
 #11

Pool hopping is to switch pools at the right time to get paid more than your fair share: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5072/what-is-pool-hopping

PPLNS, when implemented correctly, makes this impossible. This is because with PPLNS you never know what you are going to earn for the mining you do right now. You just have to wait and see. And that is what PPLNS was designed to accomplish. This also means that you cannot see that a pool is stuck in a rut and won't find a block for a while. You do not possess a magical ability to tell the future. For some reason it is very common for miners to believe they have this super power. In reality this is not the case.

If you want to try pool hopping then read up on it and look for pools vulnerable to pool hopping (proportional reward method mainly, but also Slush's score method unless it has been changed).

Note that most of the vulnerable pools will not be happy about pool hopping.

Also note that pool hopping is based on math. It's not based on observing that a pool is stuck in a rut, that you think you can predict the future or that God told you which pool to switch to. It's just math taking advantage of the fact that with some reward systems it is not completely unpredictable what you will earn in the future for the mining you do right now.

▶▶▶ Bitminter.com - Your trusted mining pool since 2011.
CERRO
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March 30, 2015, 01:54:21 AM
 #12

Just asking, as I'm new to the pool mining thaaang.  Cheesy

I'll just stick on kano then. Just hard to see days where the earnings are 1/3 they should be.  Grin

I have to get used to not being able to average or estimate the income as some days will just be better than others and at the end it should equal out.

Maybe I can average per a weekly or monthly basis.



New to pool mining also I appreciate you creating this thread @thedreamer, because its also a question I've been dealing with.  I really am blown away by the great feedback on the forum from everyon, it has been priceless.  Like you I too am sticking to Kano, because I appreciate the transparency.  In addition with Kano I actually get paid for the work I've done per block.  Where with other pools it seems that I only got paid a set amount per day for my hashrate, regardless of the amount of blocks the pool got.  I have another SP20 enroute, and will being pointing it to Kano's pool by the end of the week  Smiley
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