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Author Topic: Browser Fingerprint!  (Read 1943 times)
Muhammed Zakir
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March 10, 2015, 09:34:17 AM
 #1

Hello,

Can we implement this? It would be helpful in many cases and is better than IP check.

It can also be overcome using VPNs

I run a non-Bitcoin web site and use browser fingerprinting to detect the same user using different accounts. They can use VPNs, TOR, proxies, etc. but if they use the same computer/browser they will have the same fingerprint. No need to check IPs, which is useless in many cases anyway, e.g. for some companies if you log in from work 10,000 people share the same IP address.

   -MZ

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March 10, 2015, 09:36:03 AM
 #2

I though multi accounts where allowed? Why would that be needed if this is the case? People buy and sell account all the time in the market place.
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March 10, 2015, 09:38:30 AM
 #3

I though multi accounts where allowed? Why would that be needed if this is the case? People buy and sell account all the time in the market place.

For ban evasion, for example.


MZ: it's statistical data, so it may fail. Also, if somebody uses IE, Chrome, FFox, ... he already has 3 fingerprints.
But the results are, however, impressive.

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March 10, 2015, 09:48:31 AM
 #4

I though multi accounts where allowed? Why would that be needed if this is the case? People buy and sell account all the time in the market place.

For ban evasion, for example.


MZ: it's statistical data, so it may fail. Also, if somebody uses IE, Chrome, FFox, ... he already has 3 fingerprints.
But the results are, however, impressive.

Not only for the question of ban evasion, but also for check the various disputes of the stolen/hacked forum accounts (in these days a couple of users - Sr./Hero members have lost the access to their account here in the forum).
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March 10, 2015, 09:51:19 AM
 #5

I though multi accounts where allowed? Why would that be needed if this is the case? People buy and sell account all the time in the market place.

For ban evasion, for example.


MZ: it's statistical data, so it may fail. Also, if somebody uses IE, Chrome, FFox, ... he already has 3 fingerprints.
But the results are, however, impressive.

Ah I see, this could be really useful actually especially if it is easy to search through addresses etc. although the problem with tor is that it is a different browser and IP address and it is allowed... Along with this (jut making a complete assumption) if it checks your MAC address you can easily change this as well.
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March 10, 2015, 06:42:40 PM
 #6

This wont be implemented for regular users to check but most if not all of that can probably already be seen by the admins and it should only be them who have access to it or at a stretch Global Mods or something.

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March 10, 2015, 11:10:28 PM
 #7

It will not be effective against people who really want to hide themselves and know what they are doing. All someone would primarily need to do is use a properly configured instance of tor BB and they would appear exactly the same as anyone else using a properly configured instance of tor BB.

Notice how BTCist is not tagged by any admin despite the fact that he is an almost certain alt of Marcchernandez who has scammed hundreds (at least) of bitcoin over the past several months

As hilariousandco said, this information would likely only be available to admins for the purposes of sniffing out ban evaders, chronic scammers, etc.

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March 11, 2015, 12:34:14 AM
 #8

I think this would be a good idea to fend off scammers. But as others have mentioned, as soon as they use Tor with a few modified settings they'd be able to evade their ban unfortunately. However I think with the current fee signup on banned IP's plus if the "browser fingerprint" feature was added, it would hopefully get rid of a few more repeat scammers.
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March 11, 2015, 12:40:32 AM
 #9

I think this would be a good idea to fend off scammers. But as others have mentioned, as soon as they use Tor with a few modified settings they'd be able to evade their ban unfortunately. However I think with the current fee signup on banned IP's plus if the "browser fingerprint" feature was added, it would hopefully get rid of a few more repeat scammers.
You do not need to use tor with any modified settings, you need to use it properly. Most people modify the setting on tor browser bundle to make it less anon, if you pretty much keep everything as how they are by default browser fingerprinting will likely not work very well/at all
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March 11, 2015, 12:44:37 AM
 #10

I think this would be a good idea to fend off scammers. But as others have mentioned, as soon as they use Tor with a few modified settings they'd be able to evade their ban unfortunately. However I think with the current fee signup on banned IP's plus if the "browser fingerprint" feature was added, it would hopefully get rid of a few more repeat scammers.
You do not need to use tor with any modified settings, you need to use it properly. Most people modify the setting on tor browser bundle to make it less anon, if you pretty much keep everything as how they are by default browser fingerprinting will likely not work very well/at all
Oh ok. Now that you mention it I remember that Tor disables Javascript by default. (I believe) I'm thinking that alone would take out quite a bit of the usefulness of this tool. However, for scammers who don't know how to use Tor I still think it would be a decent deterrent.
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March 11, 2015, 12:50:38 AM
 #11

I think this would be a good idea to fend off scammers. But as others have mentioned, as soon as they use Tor with a few modified settings they'd be able to evade their ban unfortunately. However I think with the current fee signup on banned IP's plus if the "browser fingerprint" feature was added, it would hopefully get rid of a few more repeat scammers.
You do not need to use tor with any modified settings, you need to use it properly. Most people modify the setting on tor browser bundle to make it less anon, if you pretty much keep everything as how they are by default browser fingerprinting will likely not work very well/at all
Oh ok. Now that you mention it I remember that Tor disables Javascript by default. (I believe) I'm thinking that alone would take out quite a bit of the usefulness of this tool. However, for scammers who don't know how to use Tor I still think it would be a decent deterrent.
javascript is actually enabled by default on tor, but that is not the issue. Many people try to either connect to tor via some custom application or otherwise make adjustments to their settings that make it easier for them to be tracked.

Also the fact that scammers are not banned means that the fact they are a scammer has little to do with them using tor on here to remain anon. It has more to do with the spammers who are banned
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March 11, 2015, 01:39:22 AM
 #12

It will not be effective against people who really want to hide themselves and know what they are doing. All someone would primarily need to do is use a properly configured instance of tor BB and they would appear exactly the same as anyone else using a properly configured instance of tor BB.

Same goes for IP. I thought this would be better than IP check.

Notice how BTCist is not tagged by any admin despite the fact that he is an almost certain alt of Marcchernandez who has scammed hundreds (at least) of bitcoin over the past several months

Scams aren't moderated! I think it is hard to stop scammers using these 'checking' methods but we can atleast stop spammers who come with new accounts without any change in browser.

This wont be implemented for regular users to check but most if not all of that can probably already be seen by the admins and it should only be them who have access to it or at a stretch Global Mods or something.
As hilariousandco said, this information would likely only be available to admins for the purposes of sniffing out ban evaders, chronic scammers, etc.

That's what I needed. I don't need this to be shown to public. If Global Mods can ban(can they?), this should be available to them or only Admins.

   -MZ

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March 11, 2015, 01:42:38 AM
 #13

It will not be effective against people who really want to hide themselves and know what they are doing. All someone would primarily need to do is use a properly configured instance of tor BB and they would appear exactly the same as anyone else using a properly configured instance of tor BB.

Same goes for IP. I thought this would be better than IP check.
No. If you use tor properly then you should appear exactly the same as every other user of tor
Notice how BTCist is not tagged by any admin despite the fact that he is an almost certain alt of Marcchernandez who has scammed hundreds (at least) of bitcoin over the past several months

Scams aren't moderated! I think it is hard to stop scammers using these 'checking' methods but we can atleast stop spammers who come with new accounts without any change in browser.
Alts of well known scammers are often tagged. Just look at CandyStripes, marcotheminer, puzzle.me, among others. If he can find them then BadBear will tag them.


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March 11, 2015, 01:50:20 AM
 #14

No. If you use tor properly then you should appear exactly the same as every other user of tor

Okay! Thank you for telling!

Alts of well known scammers are often tagged. Just look at CandyStripes, marcotheminer, puzzle.me, among others. If he can find them then BadBear will tag them.

Surprised to see marcotheminer there but I understood why you listed him.

I suggested this to add this parallel to IP check. Both will be useful! Most of the users try to change their IPs more than they change the browsers or try to avoid this fingerprint.

    -MZ

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March 11, 2015, 01:53:19 AM
 #15

Alts of well known scammers are often tagged. Just look at CandyStripes, marcotheminer, puzzle.me, among others. If he can find them then BadBear will tag them.

Surprised to see marcotheminer there but I understood why you listed him.
He was there because he has sold/traded/trafficked in hacked/stolen accounts in the past and it appears that any time he creates/uses an account to attempt to sell other accounts, BadBear sends a negative trust it's way

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March 11, 2015, 02:07:36 AM
 #16

He was there because he has sold/traded/trafficked in hacked/stolen accounts in the past and it appears that any time he creates/uses an account to attempt to sell other accounts, BadBear sends a negative trust it's way

I saw it. I saw that feedback on an account seller too. Didn't thought Marco had that many accounts.

How do BadBear do it? IP check? Or forum has implemented any other detector?

   -MZ

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March 11, 2015, 02:19:51 AM
 #17

He was there because he has sold/traded/trafficked in hacked/stolen accounts in the past and it appears that any time he creates/uses an account to attempt to sell other accounts, BadBear sends a negative trust it's way

I saw it. I saw that feedback on an account seller too. Didn't thought Marco had that many accounts.

How do BadBear do it? IP check? Or forum has implemented any other detector?

   -MZ

Probably best to keep some things hidden so that ban evaders don't know exactly what they're facing.
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March 12, 2015, 12:02:08 AM
 #18

I think this would be a good idea to fend off scammers. But as others have mentioned, as soon as they use Tor with a few modified settings they'd be able to evade their ban unfortunately. However I think with the current fee signup on banned IP's plus if the "browser fingerprint" feature was added, it would hopefully get rid of a few more repeat scammers.
You do not need to use tor with any modified settings, you need to use it properly. Most people modify the setting on tor browser bundle to make it less anon, if you pretty much keep everything as how they are by default browser fingerprinting will likely not work very well/at all
Oh ok. Now that you mention it I remember that Tor disables Javascript by default. (I believe) I'm thinking that alone would take out quite a bit of the usefulness of this tool. However, for scammers who don't know how to use Tor I still think it would be a decent deterrent.
javascript is actually enabled by default on tor, but that is not the issue. Many people try to either connect to tor via some custom application or otherwise make adjustments to their settings that make it easier for them to be tracked.

Also the fact that scammers are not banned means that the fact they are a scammer has little to do with them using tor on here to remain anon. It has more to do with the spammers who are banned
Sorry, I meant to say ban evaders instead of scammers. But it sounds like BadBear has good methods of catching repeat offenders as others have mentioned. He must have a good method of doing it.
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