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Author Topic: Is it illegal for me to sell my Bitcoins?  (Read 26832 times)
Bananana
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March 12, 2015, 07:17:24 AM
 #21

I heard that some people have been arrested and charged with "transmitting money without a license" for selling Bitcoins.

Does this mean it is illegal for me to sell my Bitcoins?


To be safe, just sell those bitcoin to exchange site. Dont sell directly to people although the price might be a little higher but its not worth it.

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March 12, 2015, 07:39:42 AM
 #22

I heard that some people have been arrested and charged with "transmitting money without a license" for selling Bitcoins.

Does this mean it is illegal for me to sell my Bitcoins?


In the USA:
It is perfectly legal. However you have to be careful since even though legal it is an activity the government does not like unless they get their share of Bitcoins ( theft by the government).

My personal commendation would be to keep a "low profle".

if you live near the border in Mexico tijuana they have "user friendly ATMs", however they are only good for small transactions and they are often empty especially in cases when Bitcoin is going down in value.

In the USA, there are also ATMs but definetly not user friendly due to legal requirements.

There is also localbitcoins, and craigslist, be extremely distrustful, the people dealing with bitcoin today are no the same ones that where using the currency 4 years ago.

Most people arrested for selling Bitcoins have been charge for a serious of financial crimes but not for selling bitcoins, but selling bitcoins has been the trigger to all the other financial crimes like "tax fraud", "money laundering", "drug trade", etc., things that have happen to all this people in common the buyer was an undercover cop and told the seller that we was going to commit some sort of crime (entrapment), the seller thinking it is his money I am not babysitting what he does with his money ignores what he says, if you are the seller do not ignore since it is most likely a setup, simple back off and refuse to do the transaction at that point and walk away the average buyer will not tell you he is going to commit a crime even if he is, most people are honest, so most of the transactions are legit.

second point to consider, all the people arrested have been doing large transactions, with bitcoin the money is on the blockchain you are not doing any money transferring, you are technically transferring the ownership of that money, so authorities bully anyone with large amounts of cash. There are many laws in regards traveling with large amounts of money, it is complicated since some laws vary from state to state. At the federal level that amount seems to be $10000.

So to play it safe with people that you do not know, stay well below the $10000 amount, for safety purposes since bitcoins varies in value stay well below $6000, now for extra safety since at the state level they also have rules. most likely under $1000 will keep you out of trouble.

if you follow this rules, you will most likely be safe:

1. use localbitcoins, or craigslist
2. deal in small amounts of cash, under $1000 for extreme safety, avoid going over $10k by all means.
3. take a friend with you, if something goes wrong he is a witness.
4. be anonymous, governments are known to make retroactive laws, so even if you do something legal today that same activity could be illegal tomorrow.

another option, use btc-e is very reliable, but they have high fees for getting the money out.

As a personal preference anonymity is a good thing and in the good old days there used to be anonymous bitcoin exchanges in the USA, the fight by the government to have control of your bitcoins has led for "all" anonymous bitcoin exchanges to be shutdown, some have moved overseas, but the fact that something as "an anonymous exchange" has been made illegal is a sign of bad faith on the governments part, most of the USA anonymous exchanges have been shutdown by force.

so in conclusion selling bitcoins is perfectly legal, but play it safe, playing by the rules is not enough.

many well known bitcoin exchangers have played by the rules and have gotten in trouble due to retroactive laws, entrapment, and other things, so playing by the rules is insufficient, play it safe, have your own rules to protect your safety.

 



 




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March 12, 2015, 10:28:33 AM
 #23

What if you use CoinBase as your intermediary? Are they not already registered?
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March 13, 2015, 10:11:33 PM
 #24

What is illegal is for you to be a one man's exchange, you buy your coins at market price and then sell them with a premium at localbitcoins, if you have a significant volume, no licenses, and you don't pay any taxes, that's illegal in any civilized country, if you sell your bitcoins at an exchange, that's as legal as it gets, unless you live in one of those bitcoin banned countries...
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March 14, 2015, 01:37:43 AM
 #25

It is really mad world where you can be arrested for selling your own coins to people. And I thought that USA is a land of progress and bitcoin prosperity.
US Government should state it once and for all if they find Bitcoin 'money' on par with FIATS like USD or EURO or it is a whole new kind of "paying method"
and thus it require new regulations and specific law.


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March 14, 2015, 01:59:57 AM
 #26

It is really mad world where you can be arrested for selling your own coins to people. And I thought that USA is a land of progress and bitcoin prosperity.
US Government should state it once and for all if they find Bitcoin 'money' on par with FIATS like USD or EURO or it is a whole new kind of "paying method"
and thus it require new regulations and specific law.

This is why the USA needs Libertarian leaning politicians. The Libertarian Party actually takes BTC for donations.
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March 14, 2015, 08:19:38 PM
Last edit: March 14, 2015, 08:30:11 PM by stevenh512
 #27

Bitcoin is not a recognized currency and is currently being considered as black money. The problem is that many use bitcoins for gambling and illegal trades as one can open a bitcoin wallet without any proof. This is the major reason, it's considered illegal.
Unfortunately, you are right.

Not exactly. While there is some "grey area" here, in the U.S. Bitcoin is considered by federal and state governments to be money in some circumstances, such as FinCEN registration requirements or California's law recognizing it as lawful money (but not legal tender, for those who don't know the difference) while in other circumstances, such as IRS tax requirements, it's considered property or an asset.

While I wouldn't take the risk of going into court with this argument without consulting with a competent attorney, I think my defense if I were to be brought into court for selling BTC without a license would include the fact that BTC is considered property by the IRS and that it is unclear to the government whether it is money, property or both. If it's not money, then you cannot be guilty of transmitting money without a license, it's simply your personal property that you are selling and absent some specific law making that illegal it's legal by default as long as you pay the appropriate taxes. If it is money, that defense doesn't hold water, but at least a court would have to decide one way or another and put an end to some of the confusion.

This is why the USA needs Libertarian leaning politicians. The Libertarian Party actually takes BTC for donations.

^ This.. we need more politicians from other parties (not just Libertarian, although that is my own political affiliation) in office in the U.S. The two-party system has failed to give us anything more than the illusion of choice while we continue voting for the "lesser of two evils" and continue having rights taken away by our elected "representatives" regardless of whether they have an "R" or a "D" next to their name.

Even more than this, we need judges in the courts who uphold the laws and the Constitution and refuse to allow the double-standards that the government benefits from when it brings someone before a court on criminal charges (such as Bitcoin being money when it suits the government and being property otherwise.. or hacking being a felony if you or I do it but perfectly ok if the FBI or NSA does it).

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March 15, 2015, 12:48:08 AM
 #28

I heard that some people have been arrested and charged with "transmitting money without a license" for selling Bitcoins.

Does this mean it is illegal for me to sell my Bitcoins?


It is dangerous.
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March 22, 2015, 01:05:51 PM
 #29

I heard that some people have been arrested and charged with "transmitting money without a license" for selling Bitcoins.

Does this mean it is illegal for me to sell my Bitcoins?

It depends of amount you wanna sell.



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rio3232
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March 29, 2015, 01:18:38 AM
 #30

I heard that some people have been arrested and charged with "transmitting money without a license" for selling Bitcoins.

Does this mean it is illegal for me to sell my Bitcoins?


in my country bitcoins not popular, so me for selling bitcoins it still can, and have no rules here(?).
and i think its legal for selling bitcoins here.
for the news can u tell me the link or the news that selling bitcoins get arrested.
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March 29, 2015, 01:22:59 AM
 #31

I heard that some people have been arrested and charged with "transmitting money without a license" for selling Bitcoins.

Does this mean it is illegal for me to sell my Bitcoins?


To be absolutely safest, just sell through an exchange. Unfortunately, Bitcoin is just one big grey area in the law right now. Most LBC transactions go smoothly, but there was that guy in Miami who was arrested simply for selling coins to an undercover cop (who mentioned during the transaction that he wanted to use the coins for something illegal)
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March 29, 2015, 01:28:54 AM
 #32

What if you use CoinBase as your intermediary? Are they not already registered?

I think that selling on a registered exchange is 100% legal, even for people who live in the USA.

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March 29, 2015, 12:00:13 PM
 #33

People have been arrested for selling Bitcoin?
What country is it and could you put a link to where you read it?

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March 29, 2015, 12:12:13 PM
 #34

People have been arrested for selling Bitcoin?
What country is it and could you put a link to where you read it?


you can get arrested anywhere on earth if they suspected you of conducting illegal activity (like money laundering)
a year ago a couple of guy got arrested in florida for that reason
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March 29, 2015, 02:17:06 PM
 #35

People have been arrested for selling Bitcoin?
What country is it and could you put a link to where you read it?


there was a recent arrest about a guy known here in the forum, he traded bitcoin face to face, and they have seen him... apparently

also this

http://www.deepdotweb.com/2015/03/27/breaking-sheep-marketplace-owner-arrested/
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March 29, 2015, 02:32:20 PM
 #36

SO basically you can't be a market maker but if you make an account at an exchange, sell it there and then withdraw the money , its legal?

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March 29, 2015, 06:03:05 PM
 #37

Well it depends on where you live.
But actually, being in a grey area and unlegislated should actually give you some protection. You shouldn't be able to be arrested for something that isn't illegal.
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March 29, 2015, 06:08:13 PM
 #38

SO basically you can't be a market maker but if you make an account at an exchange, sell it there and then withdraw the money , its legal?

yes.
to put it simply, it's just like any other currency. you only get arrested if you earned those btc by doing illegal stuff.
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June 17, 2015, 05:00:49 AM
 #39

I heard that some people have been arrested and charged with "transmitting money without a license" for selling Bitcoins.

Does this mean it is illegal for me to sell my Bitcoins?


Yes is the short answer. You need to be a MSB with a transmitter licenses in your state. You also need to file and do KYC/AML. This law may change if we stop fighting each other and engage with lawmakers. How much can be done to stop you or even discover your activity is a different question. But for the moment if you are caught don't try fighting your sentence. You will only lose more money to a lawyer.

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June 25, 2015, 06:47:06 AM
 #40

I was thinking of using localbitcoins, but this is all just so absurd.  Its not money, right?  Or is it?  Best of both worlds fo rthe government but they make the rules, and they are bought by the banks to make rules.  Why pay 50$ to wire money to your family over seas when you can pay 2 cents to send it with bitcoins?  I think the banks are behind all of these bizarre regulations, and they want to limit the usefulness of bitcoins. 

AFAIK what the did in florida was not entrapment.  Entrapment is when they get you to do something illegal, like if an undercover agent offers you a blow job for 50$.  They didn't do this, what they did was more like asking if they could borrow money to pay the prostitute.  It is a fine line, but important to know the difference.
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