Freenode / #Bitcoin-Dev Chat Logs

[LobsterMan]

Don't really have an opinion on the matter, but it might be nice if people were able to opt themselves out of logging if they don't wish to have their sent lines archived

[mizerydearia]

I just noticed http://stuff.caurea.org/irssi/freenode/%23bitcoin-dev/2010/

[FreeMoney]

It's silly to be against logging imo. Even if I didn't want it recorded, since I can't stop it, we might as well have a complete accurate record. Mark me as pro logging.

[grondilu]

I can very well understand why some people don't feel comfortable about IRC logs.  Sometimes on IRC you write silly stuffs that you're not pride off.  Not necessarly offended things, but just silly remarqs that might may have you look dumb.

However, requesting for a deletion of a particular user might be too much either.  So I'm ok with logs, but I'd like the log not to makes my nick appear too easily.  What about using a rot13 filter on the nicks of people who ask so ?

Well I'll do :  if you log this IRC chann, please rot13 my nickname.

[mizerydearia]

unu, fher, naq gura fbzrbar nccyl n fpevcg (ternfrzbaxrl?) gb ebg13 ntnva ^_^

[grondilu]

unu, fher, naq gura fbzrbar nccyl n fpevcg (ternfrzbaxrl?) gb ebg13 ntnva ^_^
> hah, sure, and then someone apply a script (greasemonkey?) to rot13 again ^_^

Doesn't matter,  I just want not to make things too easy.  Using rot13, at least my nick won't be indexed by Google or other robots.

[Cdecker]

unu, fher, naq gura fbzrbar nccyl n fpevcg (ternfrzbaxrl?) gb ebg13 ntnva ^_^
> hah, sure, and then someone apply a script (greasemonkey?) to rot13 again ^_^

Doesn't matter,  I just want not to make things too easy.  Using rot13, at least my nick won't be indexed by Google or other robots.

The log files are not indexed by search engine indexers, at least not the big ones who respect the "Robot: nofollow, noindex" headers so there shouldn't be a huge problem.

[mizerydearia]

I suggest that if you are concerned about what you say being associated with your identity than you should put forth the effort to conceal or make difficult/impossible to determine your identity and not require or expect others to do the work for you.  Besides, if you already have said something that would affect you in some way, then regardless of the public logs, other privately established logs can be used and you will have no recourse.

It can be argued that a public log makes information finding easier, and yes, that's the point.  Information wants to be free.

Previously I have quoted insightful commentary from others that had sparked further discussion amongst the forum community and possibly the rest of the world.  The ideas/discussions that have been initially limited to the IRC community due to lack of replication throughout other communication models could be expanded to the web to provider others to express their insights, etc as well.

[grondilu]

I suggest that if you are concerned about what you say being associated with your identity than you should put forth the effort to conceal or make difficult/impossible to determine your identity and not require or expect others to do the work for you.  Besides, if you already have said something that would affect you in some way, then regardless of the public logs, other privately established logs can be used and you will have no recourse.

I know very well how to hide my identity if I want to.  I have several nicknames that I use on different forums/websites, depending on how anonymous I want to be on that forum/website.  The thing is that if sometimes I can write silly things, some times (hopefully), I can also write smart things that I may be willing to be able to claim for paternity, in some future.  That's why I like the rot13 function :  it hides the original nick but it's easy to show what it is really, if we just let people know that it is a rot13-ed word.

Now, I don't exactly "request" you to do it, since I know very well that I have no power to coerce you to do it.  I also know that some other program miht just be doing it without us even knowing it.  I just think it might be some kind of courtesy.  If you don't do it, it won't be the end of the word for me, I don't care that much.

It can be argued that a public log makes information finding easier, and yes, that's the point.  Information wants to be free.

Masking the nicks of people is not exactly hiding information.  What is important is what people say, not who actually said it and with which pseudonymous.

[Cdecker]

Masking the nicks of people is not exactly hiding information.  What is important is what people say, not who actually said it and with which pseudonymous.

I guess we all agree that as soon as we write something in the channel or here on the forum, it will be associated with our pseudonym (nickname), so yes we could add additional barriers to recognize the person, heck we could even replace all the nicknames by their Numeric ID, and the discussions would still be meaningfull, however such a mechanism will be hard (if not impossible) to implement, and buggy.

I will of course remove all mappings from pseudonym to IP address (IRC Join, Part, Whois, ...) but I guess keeping the nicknames in place would be acceptable for everybody, unless there are more people requesting rot13 on the nicknames, I'm always open to suggestions ^^

[kermit]

i clicked a link from the bot to 'tell us what you think about [the loggging]'  i was expecting a poll, but i dont see one, so:

i'm very, very, much against it, and am totally amazed anyone would be logging such a thing to the web for countless obvious reasons i'm not going to state for the same reasons

[grondilu]

i clicked a link from the bot to 'tell us what you think about [the loggging]'  i was expecting a poll, but i dont see one, so:

i'm very, very, much against it, and am totally amazed anyone would be logging such a thing to the web for countless obvious reasons i'm not going to state for the same reasons

Well, I think I understand what you mean, and I didn't thought about that first.  But you're right, for some reason that we can't really say here,  making logs is a very bad idea.

[Cdecker]

i clicked a link from the bot to 'tell us what you think about [the loggging]'  i was expecting a poll, but i dont see one, so:

i'm very, very, much against it, and am totally amazed anyone would be logging such a thing to the web for countless obvious reasons i'm not going to state for the same reasons

I seem to miss the point. Please tell us these reasons to either convince us to change our minds or create a public debate as to why they are relevant :-)

[grondilu]

i clicked a link from the bot to 'tell us what you think about [the loggging]'  i was expecting a poll, but i dont see one, so:

i'm very, very, much against it, and am totally amazed anyone would be logging such a thing to the web for countless obvious reasons i'm not going to state for the same reasons

I seem to miss the point. Please tell us these reasons to either convince us to change our minds or create a public debate as to why they are relevant :-)

To put it simply : if you log IRC, you're working for Big Brother.

[mizerydearia]

Wikipedia seems to have similiar controversies
Also: comment

Just because a conversation is in a public place doesn’t give you the automatic moral right to record everything, republish, index, and make searchable everyone’s conversations… Just because you can do a thing doesn’t mean to say you should do that thing.

See brraaaiiins

[Cdecker]

i clicked a link from the bot to 'tell us what you think about [the loggging]'  i was expecting a poll, but i dont see one, so:

i'm very, very, much against it, and am totally amazed anyone would be logging such a thing to the web for countless obvious reasons i'm not going to state for the same reasons

I seem to miss the point. Please tell us these reasons to either convince us to change our minds or create a public debate as to why they are relevant :-)

To put it simply : if you log IRC, you're working for Big Brother.

No I only have a smaller brother, and he's not listening in *ROFL*

[LZ]

I agree to be archived. And I think that everyone should be archived. It is public place!

[grondilu]

I agree to be archived. And I think that everyone should be archived. It is public place!

When you talk with a friend in the street, people around could be listening to your conversation.  So it's a public place.

And yet, would you agree if governments woud decide to put mics everywhere in the street, so that all "public" conversations would be recorded and archived ??

[grondilu]

An imaginary conversation on an IRC channel :

<Alice>Yeah...  I had fun last night.
<Bob>So you went to the party, finally ? Have you seen your old friend John ?
<Alice>Yeah, omg.  I drunk too much and when I saw him, I couldn't resist and we did bad things.
<Bob>Don't tell anything more, Alice.  You know, this chan is archived !
<Alice>Really ?  Oh, sh..it !

[kermit]

Since anyone can join the channel anyway, it's not so much the log that bothers me but the fact that its indexed by search engines.. someone who may not know about someone's presence there could find out, learning something they didn't know.

you can stop all the important search engines with Disallow:  /path/to/logs   in your /robots.txt


also hiding the IP addresses was really nice, thanks