Alright, we roughly doubled before the block reward adjustment.

[ElectricMucus]

Bulls, you have it, we roughly doubled since we had a stable price for a few months now. I can follow the argument that the halving of the block reward would double the price.

We are there now, explain to me, why should we go further up?
No arguments about market irrationality, bubbles and so on, just pure fundamental base price.

[SkRRJyTC]

Because more people want to buy bitcoins than want to sell bitcoins.

[ineededausername]

Bulls, you have it, we roughly doubled since we had a stable price for a few months now. I can follow the argument that the halving of the block reward would double the price.

We are there now, explain to me, why should we go further up?
No arguments about market irrationality, bubbles and so on, just pure fundamental base price.

Fundamentals don't mean much in the Bitcoin market. 

[ElectricMucus]

Because more people want to buy bitcoins than want to sell bitcoins.

Give me some data which suggests there are in fact significantly more people into BTC than when we were at 5, about double of that. I can't find it.
I'd say, it's just the same people willing to pay more because they think BTC will be worth more next year.

Bulls, you have it, we roughly doubled since we had a stable price for a few months now. I can follow the argument that the halving of the block reward would double the price.

We are there now, explain to me, why should we go further up?
No arguments about market irrationality, bubbles and so on, just pure fundamental base price.

Fundamentals don't mean much in the Bitcoin market. 

moot point, but again no talk about bubbles.

[Serge]

Market isn't behaving like last year where a sell-off caused a chain reaction, for that to happen now it needs something by magnitude more drastic than a simple dump of a dozen or few thousand BTCs.
More people learn about bitcoin every day, it was even mentioned momentarily on congressional comity hearing about money in the US.
People know that besides sitting on bitcoins they can invest them and make more bitcoins however risky that may be. It drove significant portion of available to exchanges coins away during $5 few month of stability, so there are less inventory available for trading.

Is there any reason for bitcoin price to decrease? I can't find one

[ElectricMucus]

Is there any reason for bitcoin price to decrease? Because I honestly don't see it

Only if we already are in bubble territory, otherwise no.
Stability or slow growth, hell yeah.

I guess it will depend on whenever the expectations are met in 2013.

Give me some data which suggests there are in fact significantly more people into BTC than when we were at 5, about double of that.

Probably meaningless (already existing bitcoiners trying out a new wallet, multiple wallets for same person, etc.), but:

http://blockchain.info/charts/my-wallet-n-users

I've seen that, as you suggested it doesn't mean much because of above issues. And at the same time the amount of full nodes has been decreasing over the same period. So much that even if you add mywallet accounts the amount of total wallets has been decreasing. There was something about electrum client if that doesn't show up as a client, but I think it should show up at least as a connected client.

[SkRRJyTC]

Because more people want to buy bitcoins than want to sell bitcoins.

Give me some data which suggests there are in fact significantly more people into BTC than when we were at 5, about double of that. I can't find it.
I'd say, it's just the same people willing to pay more because they think BTC will be worth more next year.

Suggestive data point number 1 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83209.0
Suggestive data point number 2 is the price itself

[ElectricMucus]

Because more people want to buy bitcoins than want to sell bitcoins.

Give me some data which suggests there are in fact significantly more people into BTC than when we were at 5, about double of that. I can't find it.
I'd say, it's just the same people willing to pay more because they think BTC will be worth more next year.

Suggestive data point number 1 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83209.0
Suggestive data point number 2 is the price itself

1.) That doesn't suggest more people. just better services. How is that different that any other bitcoin project?
2.) Again, no bubbles.

[SkRRJyTC]

Because more people want to buy bitcoins than want to sell bitcoins.

Give me some data which suggests there are in fact significantly more people into BTC than when we were at 5, about double of that. I can't find it.
I'd say, it's just the same people willing to pay more because they think BTC will be worth more next year.

Suggestive data point number 1 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83209.0
Suggestive data point number 2 is the price itself

1.) That doesn't suggest more people. just better services. How is that different that any other bitcoin project?
2.) Again, no bubbles.

My point is that it is clearly much easier for more people to get $ into and out of BTC than it has ever been.  So easy in fact that it is the simplest explanation of the price rise.

[ElectricMucus]

So the same people pay more for bitcoins because they think more other people will come who are willing to pay that price?

[SkRRJyTC]

So the same people pay more for bitcoins because they think more other people will come who are willing to pay that price?

Yes... AND my mom, aunt, and numerous friends have also bought in because they only have to hand cash over to a cashier... and not the old dwolla mtgox bank account verification bullshit...

Making it more accessible brings in more new people.

[Serge]

Is there any reason for bitcoin price to decrease? Because I honestly don't see it

Only if we already are in bubble territory, otherwise no.
Stability or slow growth, hell yeah.

I guess it will depend on whenever the expectations are met in 2013.

We're borderline close to a bubble where in my opinion its forming purely depends on media hype.

[ElectricMucus]

So the same people pay more for bitcoins because they think more other people will come who are willing to pay that price?

Yes... AND my mom, aunt, and numerous friends have also bought in because they only have to hand cash over to a cashier... and not the old dwolla mtgox bank account verification bullshit...

Making it more accessible brings in more new people.

Ever sent cash to mtgox via IBAN? I have and I can't see the difference.
Also your mum and your aunt aren't a representative sample for overall growth.

Is there any reason for bitcoin price to decrease? Because I honestly don't see it

Only if we already are in bubble territory, otherwise no.
Stability or slow growth, hell yeah.

I guess it will depend on whenever the expectations are met in 2013.

We're borderline close to a bubble where in my opinion its forming purely depends on media hype.

my thought exactly.

[SkRRJyTC]

So the same people pay more for bitcoins because they think more other people will come who are willing to pay that price?

Yes... AND my mom, aunt, and numerous friends have also bought in because they only have to hand cash over to a cashier... and not the old dwolla mtgox bank account verification bullshit...

Making it more accessible brings in more new people.

Ever sent cash to mtgox via IBAN? I have and I can't see the difference.
Also your mum and your aunt aren't a representative sample for overall growth.

Is there any reason for bitcoin price to decrease? Because I honestly don't see it

Only if we already are in bubble territory, otherwise no.
Stability or slow growth, hell yeah.

I guess it will depend on whenever the expectations are met in 2013.

We're borderline close to a bubble where in my opinion its forming purely depends on media hype.

my thought exactly.

IDK what IBAN is... nether does my mom...

[Kupsi]

Bitcoins are being used more than ever:


http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular?showDataPoints=false&timespan=all&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0&address=

http://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume-usd?showDataPoints=false&timespan=all&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0&address=


http://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-days-destroyed?showDataPoints=false&timespan=all&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0&address=

[ElectricMucus]

@Kupsi, you ever played satoshidice?
I'm not going to get in an argument about blockchain statistics with you, if you want to believe they have representative information do that, but don't bother somebody else with it.
I suggest you read up on them, there is plenty of information in the wiki and the forum.

@SkRRJyTC, you don't know what a International Bank Account Number is?

[Kupsi]

@Kupsi, you ever played satoshidice?
I'm not going to get in an argument about blockchain statistics with you, if you believe they have representative information do that, but don't bother somebody else with it.
I suggest you read up on them, there is plenty of information in the wiki and the forum.

Nope, because I don't like to gamble if I don't have an edge.

But the first chart, Number of transactions excluding popular addresses, exclude the SatoshiDice transactions.

[SkRRJyTC]

@SkRRJyTC, you don't know what a International Bank Account Number is?

No sorry.

[ElectricMucus]

@Kupsi, you ever played satoshidice?
I'm not going to get in an argument about blockchain statistics with you, if you believe they have representative information do that, but don't bother somebody else with it.
I suggest you read up on them, there is plenty of information in the wiki and the forum.

Nope, because I don't like to gamble if I don't have an edge.

But the first chart, Number of transactions excluding popular addresses, exclude the SatoshiDice transactions.

First transactions involve two parties. Second those charts are so easy to manipulate it is best not to consider them as representative to judge economical development.

[Kupsi]

First transactions involve two parties.

So?

Second those charts are so easy to manipulate it is best not to consider them as representative to judge economical development.

How do you manipulate bitcoin days destroyd?