Another shooting

[myrkul]

Doesn't matter, ppl carry illegally anyhow. Example, look at the Chicago's shootings/killings/murders that happen every night. On average it is 10-15 shot and/or killed, including from adults to children.

Thus proving the truth of the phrase "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will carry guns."

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[pekv2]

Doesn't matter, ppl carry illegally anyhow. Example, look at the Chicago's shootings/killings/murders that happen every night. On average it is 10-15 shot and/or killed, including from adults to children.

Thus proving the truth of the phrase "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will carry guns."

'theory' If they were outlawed, all of them melted down. Outlaws would carry knives :/. If outlawed, just need to stop the source where guns come from, no guns to be carried by outlaws. Would never happen though and the shootings will continue. Give it couple months time, we'll hear about some other random shooting.

[myrkul]

Doesn't matter, ppl carry illegally anyhow. Example, look at the Chicago's shootings/killings/murders that happen every night. On average it is 10-15 shot and/or killed, including from adults to children.

Thus proving the truth of the phrase "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will carry guns."

'theory' If they were outlawed, all of them melted down. Outlaws would carry knives :/. If outlawed, just need to stop the source where guns come from, no guns to be carried by outlaws. Would never happen though and the shootings will continue. Give it couple months time, we'll hear about some other random shooting.

For that to work, you would need to find every firearm ever made from the medieval hand-gonne, all the way up to modern assault rifles. Better get cannons, too. Then, you would need to erase from everyone's mind the recipe for gunpowder: a mixture of potassium nitrate, charcoal, and sulfur in a 75:15:10 ratio, and destroy every lathe, milling machine and (now) 3-d printer.

And people would still kill each other with crossbows.

[organofcorti]

Gun control makes it harder for people to kill each other. Crimes of passion are less likely to be fatal, as are muggings. Planned murders will use whatever weapon is best suited to the purpose, regardless of cost.

I'd rather have more burglaries than risk being killed during a mugging. Or accidentally scaring someone with an itchy trigger finger when I'm walking down a dark alley.

I have a friend who is completing an online doctorate from the University of Florida. Although she doesn't live in the US, she gets the campus secularity alert email. The first time she got a "Guns fired nearby alert" we all thought it was bizarre. Now, we just accept that there's way more gun crime in the US than I have where I live (per capita).

[myrkul]

Crimes of passion are less likely to be fatal, as are muggings.

Except, not. Ever seen a stab wound?

[Shadow383]

I live in one of the UK's highest murder rate areas.
Know what? Statistically it isn't half as bad as just about any US city.

Why? Because the UK has tough gun laws and harsh sentencing, and around here it's very effective.
There's still knife crime, but most stabbings aren't fatal (not sure why, suggests the criminals involved aren't very good at it).
Hell, most of the police around here don't carry guns. They don't need to.

[organofcorti]

Crimes of passion are less likely to be fatal, as are muggings.

Except, not. Ever seen a stab wound?

Except so. Yes, I have.

Stab wounds are less likely to be fatal than shootings. A six inch spring loaded switchblade is much slower and can do less damage than a handgun. Part of this is because the average unskilled assailant can cause more damage in a shorter period of time with a handgun than with a knife.

Doesn't matter, ppl carry illegally anyhow. Example, look at the Chicago's shootings/killings/murders that happen every night. On average it is 10-15 shot and/or killed, including from adults to children.

Thus proving the truth of the phrase "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will carry guns."

If you really think this, then why do some places with tight gun control have far less gun crime than those without tight gun control?

[myrkul]

I live in one of the UK's highest murder rate areas.
Know what? Statistically it isn't half as bad as just about any US city.

Ever thought that might have more to do with the people where you live than the laws where you live?

And does "just about any US city" include Kennesaw, Georgia?

[myrkul]

If you really think this, then why do some places with tight gun control have far less gun crime than those without tight gun control?

I'm not going to rehash all this. There's a very long thread entitled "guns" where all these stats are discussed, and all your objections refuted, go read it.

[organofcorti]

I live in one of the UK's highest murder rate areas.
Know what? Statistically it isn't half as bad as just about any US city.

Ever thought that might have more to do with the people where you live than the laws where you live?

And does "just about any US city" include Kennesaw, Georgia?

So the most murderous people in the UK are less murderous than the most murderous people in the US? Why do you think that is, myrkul?

[myrkul]

I live in one of the UK's highest murder rate areas.
Know what? Statistically it isn't half as bad as just about any US city.

Ever thought that might have more to do with the people where you live than the laws where you live?

And does "just about any US city" include Kennesaw, Georgia?

So the most murderous people in the UK are less murderous than the most murderous people in the US? Why do you think that is, myrkul?

A long history of exporting their criminals?

[organofcorti]

I live in one of the UK's highest murder rate areas.
Know what? Statistically it isn't half as bad as just about any US city.

Ever thought that might have more to do with the people where you live than the laws where you live?

And does "just about any US city" include Kennesaw, Georgia?

So the most murderous people in the UK are less murderous than the most murderous people in the US? Why do you think that is, myrkul?

A long history of exporting their criminals?

Why then is it that Australia has a similarly low rate of murder? Australia has history of importing criminals.

[evolve]

If tight gun control laws stopped crime, Dc, nyc, and Chicago would be amongst the safest cities in the us. (They're not.)

Likewise, cities like Denver would be super dangerous because of lax gun laws...guess what? Statistically, Denver is one of the top 10 safest cities in the us.

[Snapman]

All these shootings are a joke...

Love how they just so happen to occur right when their needed to sway public opinion.

[organofcorti]

If tight gun control laws stopped crime, Dc, nyc, and Chicago would be amongst the safest cities in the us. (They're not.)

So it's just that the US is an unsafe place to live, regardless of gun control. That's a very sad thing. I wonder why it is so?

[myrkul]

I live in one of the UK's highest murder rate areas.
Know what? Statistically it isn't half as bad as just about any US city.

Ever thought that might have more to do with the people where you live than the laws where you live?

And does "just about any US city" include Kennesaw, Georgia?

So the most murderous people in the UK are less murderous than the most murderous people in the US? Why do you think that is, myrkul?

A long history of exporting their criminals?

Why then is it that Australia has a similarly low rate of murder? Australia has history of importing criminals.

Maybe you should ask a professional sociologist. I for one, am not qualified to make any judgements on why this society has a lower murder rate than that one.

Again, read the "guns" thread, and you may want to pick up this book, which compares the same societies, before and after gun control laws.

[evolve]

If tight gun control laws stopped crime, Dc, nyc, and Chicago would be amongst the safest cities in the us. (They're not.)

So it's just that the US is an unsafe place to live, regardless of gun control. That's a very sad thing. I wonder why it is so?

No. The us has many wonderfull, safe places to live. Quite a few of these same places have lax gun laws.

Internationally, look at Switzerland. More guns than people, and less gun crime per capita than the Uk (which has insanely strict gun laws)

[myrkul]

If tight gun control laws stopped crime, Dc, nyc, and Chicago would be amongst the safest cities in the us. (They're not.)

So it's just that the US is an unsafe place to live, regardless of gun control. That's a very sad thing. I wonder why it is so?

No. The us has many wonderfull, safe places to live. Quite a few of these same places have lax gun laws.

Vermont, for instance.

[evolve]

http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/08/wade-michael-page-islamophobia-unleashed-by-wajahat-ali/

Wajahat Ali discusses why questions about whether Page “mistook Sikhs for Muslims” are largely irrelevant at the moment.

How much longer will we tolerate politicians who stoke bigotry like that which drove Wade Michael Page to kill?

--

http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/08/on-heels-of-july-4th-arson-attack-joplin-islamic-mosque-burned-to-the-ground-for-second-time/

http://thedebateinitiative.com/2012/08/06/mosque-in-missouri-burned-down/

You hit the nail on the head. This shooting was the result of a culture that breeds fear and xenophobia.  The media, the government, and the education system are all complicit in creating this fear,  which results in extreme jingoism. Add in the failure of the a social safety net, and the poor state of mental health care in the us, and you get nutjobs committing acts like this.

[nimda]

I live in one of the UK's highest murder rate areas.
Know what? Statistically it isn't half as bad as just about any US city.

Ever thought that might have more to do with the people where you live than the laws where you live?

And does "just about any US city" include Kennesaw, Georgia?

So the most murderous people in the UK are less murderous than the most murderous people in the US? Why do you think that is, myrkul?

A long history of exporting their criminals?

Why then is it that Australia has a similarly low rate of murder? Australia has history of importing criminals.

You might note that Australia has remarkably high burglary rates. The problem noticed in my 30 page "Guns" thread is that any piece of statistics, or one isolated case, can be found in favor of or against gun control. The difficulty is in getting people to take ALL the statistics.