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Author Topic: SCAM - Blackarrow EWallet. DO NOT BUY.  (Read 3257 times)
Bicknellski
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March 13, 2015, 02:05:33 PM
 #1

Am I being asked to LEAVE?






DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM BLACK ARROW EVER.


If you want a good hardware wallet...

Trezor Hardware wallet AVAILABLE NOW!!! - https://www.buytrezor.com

Dogie trust abuse, spam, bullying, conspiracy posts & insults to forum members. Ask the mods or admins to move Dogie's spam or off topic stalking posts to the link above.
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March 13, 2015, 05:40:08 PM
 #2

asked to leave? 

LOLZ.

these lying pieces of shit are not worthy of that sort of consideration.

I and many others ASKED for our money back.  That same user BlackArrow told us refunds would happen last May.

then he fucked us.  this company is run by known scammers and scammed people out of millions.

now we're being 'asked to leave'.  LOL.  Sure, but not before I jam a hammer up your ass, Alex, so bend over and take it like a man.....
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March 13, 2015, 05:43:59 PM
 #3

just quoting from that thread:
Dear All,

Black Arrow is launching a new product:

eWallet - hardware Bitcoin wallet

  • 100% Trezor compatible.
  • Does not require a cable to connect to your laptop
  • Smaller than Trezor
  • Open source code available for auditing in order to ensure that there are no backdoors
  • Can be used on a virused computer even with keylogger installed
  • This wallet never exposes the private keys to the outside world to keep your coins always safe. All transactions are signed by the wallet.
  • Embedded screen ensures that you sign the transaction that you really intend to.



Now in stock.

Order here: https://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/ewallet.html




Dear All of You Low-Life Pieces of Shit at Black Arrow,

The notion that you are "launching" anything is fucking hilarious.

As a result of your total fail on your last "product launch" your last customers lost their asses and have no need for a bitcoin storage device.  The last product you 'launched' started on fire in people's homes.  Nice work on that, morons.

Maybe BlackArrow, aka Alex Sovu, you could go back to credit card theft, as this business is dead.  You know plenty about that now don't you, crookie-crook?

Of course it wouldn't surprise me at all if this new device is set up to skim bitcoins or keys to you in just a new age version of credit card skimming, with which I hear you are also familiar.  Isn't that true also, crookie-crook?

As to these devices, I suggest you shove them up your ass.  I'd pay 40 bucks to watch that, you piece of shit, and I'm sure others would also.  Hold a raffle to see who gets to ram them up your ass with a broomstick and you'll rake in thousands, I have no doubt.

Beyond that, aren't you the same stupid fuckers that say you had a shitload of bitcoin stolen from you?  Any fucking newb understands cold storage, which you apparently didn't, and now you're somehow security experts that are so crackerjack on this game that people can trust you to keep their money safe when you could not do so for your own.   That's some good shit, right there.

So this fucking group of morons that calls themselves a company was founded by a guy that ran a credit card fraud operation, then a company that built credit card skimming devices.  Now this latest company sold stuff to people based on a set of promises that it did not keep and built miners that started on fire and delivered only after they were net losers to even plug in; and it had bitcoins stolen from it, such was it's ethics, technical ability and security prowess.   Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of that, Alex, but I won't hold my breath waiting for you to pipe in.

Now this same bunch of unethical, incompetent assholes wants to sell people a device that they will plug into their computer, which holds their personal information and other sensitive stuff and store their MONEY for them?

That's fucking priceless, man.  I gotta tell you, even for a total piece of human trash like you, Alex, that is funny stuff.

You can't write stuff this funny.  You jerkoffs really should try standup comedy.


See here for information on these people.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=716310.msg8090697

to my knowledge They have never denied that this is the same Alex Sovu.

translated text is below

http://85.120.75.151/comunicat-de-presa__l1a15869.html

PRESS RELEASE
On 01/14/2003, workers in DGCCOA-Brigade Bucharest, based on the information held, and a search warrant issued by the Public Prosecutor at the Court of Appeal, proceeded to carry out house searches in homes following: Sovu Alexandru Ion, 24 years old from Bucharest, sector 2; Sovu Mircea Dan, the brother mentioned above, 23 years, Bucuresti, Sector 2, both associated to a company in Bucharest; and STOENESCU LILIANA bridegroom, 32 years old from Bucharest, sector 6.

Those concerned together with Mircea RADUT of 32 years, Bucharest, sector 4 and Ixari Iulia Cristina 26 years old from Bucharest, sector 2, were part of a network that deals with committing computer fraud via the Internet community.

In fact, in the period 2000 - 2002, the brothers launched Sovu more orders on the Internet at online stores abroad (in particular the United States, Australia and Canada) for the purchase of goods using fraudulent card numbers credit is not theirs, without the knowledge or authorization of the true owners. After orders have arrived in Romania about 100 parcels names and addresses accomplices, STOENESCU LILIANA bridegroom and Mircea RADUT which to raise their courier and postal offices in exchange from the brothers amounts between 300,000 and 1,000 .000 USD, depending on the contents of the package.

When conducting a search at the home of Dan Mircea Sovu were discovered approximately 300 printer cartridges, computer components, transceiver stations, digital cameras, clothing, hammocks, board snowboard, paragliding, coveralls and complete motorcycle suit including full helmets, boots, gloves and jackets, all professional contest. He also had at his home, located in the basement storage room, arranged as warehouse, motorcycle parts, namely, drums exhaust, lights, tires, disc brake pads, etc.. All items found from abroad being the products of prestigious companies.

wow.  is this true?

anyone?
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March 13, 2015, 09:18:06 PM
 #4

Well with his trust no one is going to buy or do any kind of business with that guy, shouldnt he be banned?
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March 14, 2015, 12:21:38 AM
 #5

Well with his trust no one is going to buy or do any kind of business with that guy, shouldnt he be banned?

Scammers aren't banned, haven't been for a while.

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March 14, 2015, 06:40:00 AM
 #6

Well with his trust no one is going to buy or do any kind of business with that guy, shouldnt he be banned?

Scammers aren't banned, haven't been for a while.

They should be banned coz like candystripes he still scammed someone even with a red trust in his account..
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March 16, 2015, 05:28:55 AM
 #7

Interesting Reply From BA to HK Consumer Council

Can anyone advise whether this can be appeal? As I am going to Hong Kong soon and arrange to meet with Hong Kong police to bring down this mobs.

XX/XX/2015

Our Ref:
Your Ref:

To: Consumer Council
Complaints & Advice Division
Room 1410 Kodak House II
39 Healthy Street East, North Paint
Hong Kong

In Attn: xxxxx

Dear Sir/Madam,

We confirm that we have acknowledged your letter on xx/xx/2014

   For your further reference to the text below, please find attached:
1.   The terms and conditions read, approved and signed by our customers
2.   The news was made available to our customers on our website at this link: https://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/support/index.php?/News/List

I would like to highlight that we have informed our customers very clearly at the moment of order that:

1.   X1, X3 and Rent-A-Minion is a pre-order for an equipment made-to-order
2.   No refunds can be issued.

11.3 The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfil his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order.

3.   Delivery date is for informational purposes. The reason was only because delays are possible because, the product is in development and unfortunately, problems sometime appear during this process:

9.1 The Products are delivered to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on Us. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.

The customers have read and agreed with this contract at the moment of placing the order.

We have never made false publicity nor provided false information. The date supplied was based on our best estimation at that time. We have informed the customers very clearly that this is a pre-order, the date is for information purposes only and we will be spending their money to manufacture their order and no refund can be issued after the order is put into production.
The contract was very reasonable and we have merely passed on the contract conditions from our vendors to the customer. Without these conditions it would have been impossible for us to put their order into production because no Silicon Foundry and no ASIC designer would have manufactured the Bitcoin ASIC required for this miner. No Foundry refunds a wafer already started. No engineer or engineering company will refund for the work that they have already done especially if it is up to the specifications. We offered our customers a reasonable interval (15 days) to cancel their pre-order, and we have kept the customers updated all the time with our progress through the website ( http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list ).  Due to NDA we cannot quote the exact terms of our suppliers but we assure you that they were harsher than the terms that we have passed onto our customers: Our vendor’s terms stated that if we cancel the contract we would have had to pay fines for wasting their time. Note that all the other vendors (other chips, power supply, heat sinks, case, fans etc) required at least of 50% payment in advance and the rest on deliver and they are non-refundable.

The reason why we stopped shipping in Nov is that it been brought to our attention by few customers that the miners failed during hashing. We have organized the PCB manufacturers, SMT factories, IC suppliers and assembly factories to review and analyse the problem. In early Dec we found out the reason and immediately started with testing. After verifying the improvement, we began to replace the hash boards for the delivered miners. On 08/12/2014, we sent notices to all customers who have not received the Products to push for the confirmation on address, telephone number for shipment purpose. And in the end of Dec, we finished all the productions for pending orders. Considering the freight fee and power fee in different countries, we have proposed 2 options to customer, i.e, shipment or hosting. Now every day we check the replies from the tickets and arrange shipment once if any confirmation from the customer is received.

We believe that most of the customers are looking for a refund because now they see no profit in a miner. However, please note that we have never sold our miners as an investment service. We have sold them as Bitcoin miners which can hash at a certain speed. We have exceeded those specifications therefore we are delivering a better product than promised.

Regarding all complaints, we believe that we have explained above the reason of the delay and why we cannot provide a refund.

Regarding customer’s comments on order XXXXX

The order was completed on **/11/2014 by DHL with ************.




Black Arrow Information Technology (Shenzhen) Limited
  Room 03, 5A Floor,  Building A, HuangduguangchangYitian Road, Futian District
  Shenzhen, Guangdong, P. R. China
  Postcode: 518048
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March 16, 2015, 02:17:06 PM
 #8

Interesting Reply From BA to HK Consumer Council

Can anyone advise whether this can be appeal? As I am going to Hong Kong soon and arrange to meet with Hong Kong police to bring down this mobs.

XX/XX/2015

Our Ref:
Your Ref:

To: Consumer Council
Complaints & Advice Division
Room 1410 Kodak House II
39 Healthy Street East, North Paint
Hong Kong

In Attn: xxxxx

Dear Sir/Madam,

We confirm that we have acknowledged your letter on xx/xx/2014

   For your further reference to the text below, please find attached:
1.   The terms and conditions read, approved and signed by our customers
2.   The news was made available to our customers on our website at this link: https://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/support/index.php?/News/List

I would like to highlight that we have informed our customers very clearly at the moment of order that:

1.   X1, X3 and Rent-A-Minion is a pre-order for an equipment made-to-order
2.   No refunds can be issued.

11.3 The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfil his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order.

3.   Delivery date is for informational purposes. The reason was only because delays are possible because, the product is in development and unfortunately, problems sometime appear during this process:

9.1 The Products are delivered to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on Us. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.

The customers have read and agreed with this contract at the moment of placing the order.

We have never made false publicity nor provided false information. The date supplied was based on our best estimation at that time. We have informed the customers very clearly that this is a pre-order, the date is for information purposes only and we will be spending their money to manufacture their order and no refund can be issued after the order is put into production.
The contract was very reasonable and we have merely passed on the contract conditions from our vendors to the customer. Without these conditions it would have been impossible for us to put their order into production because no Silicon Foundry and no ASIC designer would have manufactured the Bitcoin ASIC required for this miner. No Foundry refunds a wafer already started. No engineer or engineering company will refund for the work that they have already done especially if it is up to the specifications. We offered our customers a reasonable interval (15 days) to cancel their pre-order, and we have kept the customers updated all the time with our progress through the website ( http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/index.php?dispatch=news.list ).  Due to NDA we cannot quote the exact terms of our suppliers but we assure you that they were harsher than the terms that we have passed onto our customers: Our vendor’s terms stated that if we cancel the contract we would have had to pay fines for wasting their time. Note that all the other vendors (other chips, power supply, heat sinks, case, fans etc) required at least of 50% payment in advance and the rest on deliver and they are non-refundable.

The reason why we stopped shipping in Nov is that it been brought to our attention by few customers that the miners failed during hashing. We have organized the PCB manufacturers, SMT factories, IC suppliers and assembly factories to review and analyse the problem. In early Dec we found out the reason and immediately started with testing. After verifying the improvement, we began to replace the hash boards for the delivered miners. On 08/12/2014, we sent notices to all customers who have not received the Products to push for the confirmation on address, telephone number for shipment purpose. And in the end of Dec, we finished all the productions for pending orders. Considering the freight fee and power fee in different countries, we have proposed 2 options to customer, i.e, shipment or hosting. Now every day we check the replies from the tickets and arrange shipment once if any confirmation from the customer is received.

We believe that most of the customers are looking for a refund because now they see no profit in a miner. However, please note that we have never sold our miners as an investment service. We have sold them as Bitcoin miners which can hash at a certain speed. We have exceeded those specifications therefore we are delivering a better product than promised.

Regarding all complaints, we believe that we have explained above the reason of the delay and why we cannot provide a refund.

Regarding customer’s comments on order XXXXX

The order was completed on **/11/2014 by DHL with ************.




Black Arrow Information Technology (Shenzhen) Limited
  Room 03, 5A Floor,  Building A, HuangduguangchangYitian Road, Futian District
  Shenzhen, Guangdong, P. R. China
  Postcode: 518048


Well, obviously they're going to make this claim.

simply put, they made a number of promises on:

delivery dates

refunds

price matching

compensation


and have kept none of them.  they'll point to their terms, but it is not acceptable to basically take the position that they can say anything they want and do not have to fulfill obligations they have set out for themselves or promises made to sell their product.

I'd simply catalog their promises on the above and send that back to refute their statements.   If you'd like help putting this together let me know.

I know that BlackArrow has deleted some posts here and they've deleted the entire refund thread from their forum, although the wayback machine should have a lot of it and I know people have kept pdfs of these people's posts and those forums.  You'll have to dig around a bit to put it together, but it's all there.
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March 17, 2015, 06:11:47 AM
 #9

Since they like quoting their TOS so much here's a few tidbits "16.2 1 This Agreement shall be interpreted and applied in accordance with the law of Hong Kong S.A.R. of PRC.". Which consumer protection laws haven't they violated?

My personal favorite "How do we protect your information?", "We implement a variety of security measures to maintain the safety of your personal information when you place an order.". They sold my info to spammers!
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March 18, 2015, 04:22:44 AM
 #10

Since they like quoting their TOS so much here's a few tidbits "16.2 1 This Agreement shall be interpreted and applied in accordance with the law of Hong Kong S.A.R. of PRC.". Which consumer protection laws haven't they violated?

My personal favorite "How do we protect your information?", "We implement a variety of security measures to maintain the safety of your personal information when you place an order.". They sold my info to spammers!

There is no legal cover for them and what they have done.

Just be double sure NOT to buy that E-Wallet.

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March 18, 2015, 03:06:18 PM
 #11

well, the product was delivered to me this morning. . .

http://www.stellaw.info/blog/2015/3/18/black-arrow-ewallets-arrives

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March 18, 2015, 04:37:24 PM
 #12

Am I being asked to LEAVE?






DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM BLACK ARROW EVER.


If you want a good hardware wallet...

Trezor Hardware wallet AVAILABLE NOW!!! - https://www.buytrezor.com

did you ever try to contact the seller by phone?
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March 18, 2015, 05:53:06 PM
 #13

Am I being asked to LEAVE?






DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM BLACK ARROW EVER.


If you want a good hardware wallet...

Trezor Hardware wallet AVAILABLE NOW!!! - https://www.buytrezor.com

did you ever try to contact the seller by phone?

which seller?  Black Arrow is fairly famous for having nobody actually answer the phone.  or e-mails.  or support tickets.  they've reportedly deleted entire support tickets and locked people out of their accounts when a conflict arises. 

now, if you want to give them money for something, they're seemingly more responsive.

and that right there is the problem.  well, one of them, anyhow.  they want your money.  once they have it, they couldn't give half a damn about you or the promises they made to get it.

very sound advice is to stay away from these people, IMHO.  Learn from the rest of our experiences and just shop somewhere else.
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March 19, 2015, 12:45:52 AM
 #14


...

... On 08/12/2014, we sent notices to all customers who have not received the Products to push for the confirmation on address, telephone number for shipment purpose. ...

...


This is a lie, I've received no communication from BA since they sold my personal/order information at the beginning of August 2014 to XBTec and who knows who else.

Liars, thieves and rip-off artists.
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March 19, 2015, 02:07:06 AM
 #15

Post a picture of the EWallet they sent you with shipping invoice there buddy.

I call shenanigans.


Please people do not do anything that legitimizes these assholes.

Remember why they are irresponsible business people.

A quote from Black Arrow's ToS as they love to quote it as the reason they get to keep customers money without providing anything of value in exchange: "16.2 1 This Agreement shall be interpreted and applied in accordance with the law of Hong Kong S.A.R. of PRC."

Lets revisit how BA is complying with consumer protection law:

Quote
Law of the People's Republic of China on the Protection of Consumer Rights and InterestsChapter VII Legal Responsibility

Article 40 Business operators shall, if the commodities and services they supply involve any of the following circumstances, bear civil liability in accordance
with the provisions of the Law of the People's Republic of China on Product Quality and other relevant laws and regulations, except as otherwise provided in the present Law:

(1) there existing defects in the commodities;

(2) not possessing the properties for use they should possess and no declaration thereabout is made at the time of sale;

(3) not conforming to the standards indicated on the commodities or on the packaging thereof;

(4) not conforming to the state of quality indicated by the product description or by physical samples;

(5) producing commodities that have been formally declared by the State to be eliminated or selling commodities that are no longer effective or deteriorated;

(6) commodities sold being short of weight or quantity;

(7) contents and costs of services being not in conformity with the agreements;

(8) deliberately delaying or unreasonably refusing consumers requests for repair, remanufacture, replacement, return of goods, makeup for the short commodities, return of payment for goods or services, or compensation for losses;

1. Numerous reports of fires, explosions, electrical leakage and DoA units. ✔

2. Promised to deliver product within a time-frame that would allow the consumer to mine profitably; units delivered between 6 months to a year late or not at all. ✔

3. Falsified CE certification by placing "Chinese Export" labeling in order to deceive customers and customs officials. ✔

4. Claimed customers would be able to mine reliably yet numerous reports from customers claim the machines malfunction on a regular basis. ✔

5. No machines were shipped until the cost of electricity made them ineffective and obsolete for the purposes of mining digital-currency. ✔

6. Machines shipped to customers if they were lucky enough to receive a unit at all were decreased in value by at least 90%. ✔

7. Customers who ordered rent-a-minion service instead of hardware have yet to receive any service other than a few cases where a small fraction of the Bitcoins used to pay for their order were sent back with the claim they were mined. ✔

8. Deliberately delayed shipment of machines to mine digital-currency into their own wallets, refused to provide promised compensation, made customers pay S&H costs on RMA and have refused all refunds. ✔



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March 20, 2015, 12:38:00 AM
 #16

Post a picture of the EWallet they sent you with shipping invoice there buddy.

I call shenanigans.


Please people do not do anything that legitimizes these assholes.

Remember why they are irresponsible business people.

A quote from Black Arrow's ToS as they love to quote it as the reason they get to keep customers money without providing anything of value in exchange: "16.2 1 This Agreement shall be interpreted and applied in accordance with the law of Hong Kong S.A.R. of PRC."

Lets revisit how BA is complying with consumer protection law:

Quote
Law of the People's Republic of China on the Protection of Consumer Rights and InterestsChapter VII Legal Responsibility

Article 40 Business operators shall, if the commodities and services they supply involve any of the following circumstances, bear civil liability in accordance
with the provisions of the Law of the People's Republic of China on Product Quality and other relevant laws and regulations, except as otherwise provided in the present Law:

(1) there existing defects in the commodities;

(2) not possessing the properties for use they should possess and no declaration thereabout is made at the time of sale;

(3) not conforming to the standards indicated on the commodities or on the packaging thereof;

(4) not conforming to the state of quality indicated by the product description or by physical samples;

(5) producing commodities that have been formally declared by the State to be eliminated or selling commodities that are no longer effective or deteriorated;

(6) commodities sold being short of weight or quantity;

(7) contents and costs of services being not in conformity with the agreements;

(8) deliberately delaying or unreasonably refusing consumers requests for repair, remanufacture, replacement, return of goods, makeup for the short commodities, return of payment for goods or services, or compensation for losses;

1. Numerous reports of fires, explosions, electrical leakage and DoA units. ✔

2. Promised to deliver product within a time-frame that would allow the consumer to mine profitably; units delivered between 6 months to a year late or not at all. ✔

3. Falsified CE certification by placing "Chinese Export" labeling in order to deceive customers and customs officials. ✔

4. Claimed customers would be able to mine reliably yet numerous reports from customers claim the machines malfunction on a regular basis. ✔

5. No machines were shipped until the cost of electricity made them ineffective and obsolete for the purposes of mining digital-currency. ✔

6. Machines shipped to customers if they were lucky enough to receive a unit at all were decreased in value by at least 90%. ✔

7. Customers who ordered rent-a-minion service instead of hardware have yet to receive any service other than a few cases where a small fraction of the Bitcoins used to pay for their order were sent back with the claim they were mined. ✔

8. Deliberately delayed shipment of machines to mine digital-currency into their own wallets, refused to provide promised compensation, made customers pay S&H costs on RMA and have refused all refunds. ✔




it's China? What do you want more? Smiley
Bicknellski
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March 20, 2015, 01:22:11 AM
 #17

Post a picture of the EWallet they sent you with shipping invoice there buddy.

I call shenanigans.


Please people do not do anything that legitimizes these assholes.

Remember why they are irresponsible business people.

A quote from Black Arrow's ToS as they love to quote it as the reason they get to keep customers money without providing anything of value in exchange: "16.2 1 This Agreement shall be interpreted and applied in accordance with the law of Hong Kong S.A.R. of PRC."

Lets revisit how BA is complying with consumer protection law:

Quote
Law of the People's Republic of China on the Protection of Consumer Rights and InterestsChapter VII Legal Responsibility

Article 40 Business operators shall, if the commodities and services they supply involve any of the following circumstances, bear civil liability in accordance
with the provisions of the Law of the People's Republic of China on Product Quality and other relevant laws and regulations, except as otherwise provided in the present Law:

(1) there existing defects in the commodities;

(2) not possessing the properties for use they should possess and no declaration thereabout is made at the time of sale;

(3) not conforming to the standards indicated on the commodities or on the packaging thereof;

(4) not conforming to the state of quality indicated by the product description or by physical samples;

(5) producing commodities that have been formally declared by the State to be eliminated or selling commodities that are no longer effective or deteriorated;

(6) commodities sold being short of weight or quantity;

(7) contents and costs of services being not in conformity with the agreements;

(8) deliberately delaying or unreasonably refusing consumers requests for repair, remanufacture, replacement, return of goods, makeup for the short commodities, return of payment for goods or services, or compensation for losses;

1. Numerous reports of fires, explosions, electrical leakage and DoA units. ✔

2. Promised to deliver product within a time-frame that would allow the consumer to mine profitably; units delivered between 6 months to a year late or not at all. ✔

3. Falsified CE certification by placing "Chinese Export" labeling in order to deceive customers and customs officials. ✔

4. Claimed customers would be able to mine reliably yet numerous reports from customers claim the machines malfunction on a regular basis. ✔

5. No machines were shipped until the cost of electricity made them ineffective and obsolete for the purposes of mining digital-currency. ✔

6. Machines shipped to customers if they were lucky enough to receive a unit at all were decreased in value by at least 90%. ✔

7. Customers who ordered rent-a-minion service instead of hardware have yet to receive any service other than a few cases where a small fraction of the Bitcoins used to pay for their order were sent back with the claim they were mined. ✔

8. Deliberately delayed shipment of machines to mine digital-currency into their own wallets, refused to provide promised compensation, made customers pay S&H costs on RMA and have refused all refunds. ✔




it's China? What do you want more? Smiley


LOL, BFL?

AMERICAN

LOL, HASHFAST?

AMERICAN

LOL, COINTERRA?

AMERICAN

LOL, AMT?

AMERICAN

[sarcasm on]Ya China is the problem.[sarcasm off]

Let us set that record straight.

It isn't the CHINESE that own or run the company it is some Eastern European Eurotrash scammers.


Dogie trust abuse, spam, bullying, conspiracy posts & insults to forum members. Ask the mods or admins to move Dogie's spam or off topic stalking posts to the link above.
Pentax
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March 20, 2015, 03:12:24 PM
 #18

Post a picture of the EWallet they sent you with shipping invoice there buddy.

I call shenanigans.


Please people do not do anything that legitimizes these assholes.

Remember why they are irresponsible business people.

A quote from Black Arrow's ToS as they love to quote it as the reason they get to keep customers money without providing anything of value in exchange: "16.2 1 This Agreement shall be interpreted and applied in accordance with the law of Hong Kong S.A.R. of PRC."

Lets revisit how BA is complying with consumer protection law:

Quote
Law of the People's Republic of China on the Protection of Consumer Rights and InterestsChapter VII Legal Responsibility

Article 40 Business operators shall, if the commodities and services they supply involve any of the following circumstances, bear civil liability in accordance
with the provisions of the Law of the People's Republic of China on Product Quality and other relevant laws and regulations, except as otherwise provided in the present Law:

(1) there existing defects in the commodities;

(2) not possessing the properties for use they should possess and no declaration thereabout is made at the time of sale;

(3) not conforming to the standards indicated on the commodities or on the packaging thereof;

(4) not conforming to the state of quality indicated by the product description or by physical samples;

(5) producing commodities that have been formally declared by the State to be eliminated or selling commodities that are no longer effective or deteriorated;

(6) commodities sold being short of weight or quantity;

(7) contents and costs of services being not in conformity with the agreements;

(8) deliberately delaying or unreasonably refusing consumers requests for repair, remanufacture, replacement, return of goods, makeup for the short commodities, return of payment for goods or services, or compensation for losses;

1. Numerous reports of fires, explosions, electrical leakage and DoA units. ✔

2. Promised to deliver product within a time-frame that would allow the consumer to mine profitably; units delivered between 6 months to a year late or not at all. ✔

3. Falsified CE certification by placing "Chinese Export" labeling in order to deceive customers and customs officials. ✔

4. Claimed customers would be able to mine reliably yet numerous reports from customers claim the machines malfunction on a regular basis. ✔

5. No machines were shipped until the cost of electricity made them ineffective and obsolete for the purposes of mining digital-currency. ✔

6. Machines shipped to customers if they were lucky enough to receive a unit at all were decreased in value by at least 90%. ✔

7. Customers who ordered rent-a-minion service instead of hardware have yet to receive any service other than a few cases where a small fraction of the Bitcoins used to pay for their order were sent back with the claim they were mined. ✔

8. Deliberately delayed shipment of machines to mine digital-currency into their own wallets, refused to provide promised compensation, made customers pay S&H costs on RMA and have refused all refunds. ✔




it's China? What do you want more? Smiley


LOL, BFL?

AMERICAN

LOL, HASHFAST?

AMERICAN

LOL, COINTERRA?

AMERICAN

LOL, AMT?

AMERICAN

Ya China is the problem.

Let us set that record straight.

It isn't the CHINESE that own or run the company it is some Eastern European Eurotrash scammers.




true.  China is not the issue.  China may or may not even have jurisdiction in these issues.

The way Black Arrow has structured itself the 'director' lives in the UK, the company is held by some holding company in the Virgin Islands, they manufacture in China and say their terms are governed by Hong Kong law.

Hong Kong law is an interesting choice, seeing as they don't seem to be performing any substantive operations there.  At least until you look into Hong Kong consumer law and realize that it makes group action very difficult and is actually behind most countries, including China, in terms of consumer protections.  To file even small claims that has to be done in Hong Kong, in person.  They are using consumer law there that is basically 100 years old and assumes therefore that everyone lives on their small island and consumer protections are minimal if any.  China just updated their consumer law and even the one it just replaced was far, far better than Hong Kong law when it comes to consumer protections, as HK law spells out very little.

I have little doubt this is exactly why this structure exists.  Sue them, fine.  Where?  China?  Hong Kong?  The UK?  Sue who Alex Sovu, Cristina, Daniel or this holding company in the Virgin Islands.  T

China, Hong Kong is next to impossible to do unless you're willing to fly back and forth to China multiple times for your whatever thousand dollars.  Without the ability to bring group action it is prohibitively expensive for most customers to hire a lawyer and pursue them, and they know it.

I do know of one guy that is suing in the UK and that case is moving forward, from what I'm told.  That would be the only realistic avenue for most people I think, as it can be done remotely.
Bicknellski
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View Profile
March 22, 2015, 05:42:30 AM
 #19

Post a picture of the EWallet they sent you with shipping invoice there buddy.

I call shenanigans.


Please people do not do anything that legitimizes these assholes.

Remember why they are irresponsible business people.

A quote from Black Arrow's ToS as they love to quote it as the reason they get to keep customers money without providing anything of value in exchange: "16.2 1 This Agreement shall be interpreted and applied in accordance with the law of Hong Kong S.A.R. of PRC."

Lets revisit how BA is complying with consumer protection law:

Quote
Law of the People's Republic of China on the Protection of Consumer Rights and InterestsChapter VII Legal Responsibility

Article 40 Business operators shall, if the commodities and services they supply involve any of the following circumstances, bear civil liability in accordance
with the provisions of the Law of the People's Republic of China on Product Quality and other relevant laws and regulations, except as otherwise provided in the present Law:

(1) there existing defects in the commodities;

(2) not possessing the properties for use they should possess and no declaration thereabout is made at the time of sale;

(3) not conforming to the standards indicated on the commodities or on the packaging thereof;

(4) not conforming to the state of quality indicated by the product description or by physical samples;

(5) producing commodities that have been formally declared by the State to be eliminated or selling commodities that are no longer effective or deteriorated;

(6) commodities sold being short of weight or quantity;

(7) contents and costs of services being not in conformity with the agreements;

(8) deliberately delaying or unreasonably refusing consumers requests for repair, remanufacture, replacement, return of goods, makeup for the short commodities, return of payment for goods or services, or compensation for losses;

1. Numerous reports of fires, explosions, electrical leakage and DoA units. ✔

2. Promised to deliver product within a time-frame that would allow the consumer to mine profitably; units delivered between 6 months to a year late or not at all. ✔

3. Falsified CE certification by placing "Chinese Export" labeling in order to deceive customers and customs officials. ✔

4. Claimed customers would be able to mine reliably yet numerous reports from customers claim the machines malfunction on a regular basis. ✔

5. No machines were shipped until the cost of electricity made them ineffective and obsolete for the purposes of mining digital-currency. ✔

6. Machines shipped to customers if they were lucky enough to receive a unit at all were decreased in value by at least 90%. ✔

7. Customers who ordered rent-a-minion service instead of hardware have yet to receive any service other than a few cases where a small fraction of the Bitcoins used to pay for their order were sent back with the claim they were mined. ✔

8. Deliberately delayed shipment of machines to mine digital-currency into their own wallets, refused to provide promised compensation, made customers pay S&H costs on RMA and have refused all refunds. ✔




it's China? What do you want more? Smiley


LOL, BFL?

AMERICAN

LOL, HASHFAST?

AMERICAN

LOL, COINTERRA?

AMERICAN

LOL, AMT?

AMERICAN

Ya China is the problem.

Let us set that record straight.

It isn't the CHINESE that own or run the company it is some Eastern European Eurotrash scammers.




true.  China is not the issue.  China may or may not even have jurisdiction in these issues.

The way Black Arrow has structured itself the 'director' lives in the UK, the company is held by some holding company in the Virgin Islands, they manufacture in China and say their terms are governed by Hong Kong law.

Hong Kong law is an interesting choice, seeing as they don't seem to be performing any substantive operations there.  At least until you look into Hong Kong consumer law and realize that it makes group action very difficult and is actually behind most countries, including China, in terms of consumer protections.  To file even small claims that has to be done in Hong Kong, in person.  They are using consumer law there that is basically 100 years old and assumes therefore that everyone lives on their small island and consumer protections are minimal if any.  China just updated their consumer law and even the one it just replaced was far, far better than Hong Kong law when it comes to consumer protections, as HK law spells out very little.

I have little doubt this is exactly why this structure exists.  Sue them, fine.  Where?  China?  Hong Kong?  The UK?  Sue who Alex Sovu, Cristina, Daniel or this holding company in the Virgin Islands.  T

China, Hong Kong is next to impossible to do unless you're willing to fly back and forth to China multiple times for your whatever thousand dollars.  Without the ability to bring group action it is prohibitively expensive for most customers to hire a lawyer and pursue them, and they know it.

I do know of one guy that is suing in the UK and that case is moving forward, from what I'm told.  That would be the only realistic avenue for most people I think, as it can be done remotely.

Yes that is the issue alright. I suspect if you knew the right PEOPLE in mainland China they would not the ability to fabricate or hide in that jurisdiction thus limiting them and their operation.

Dogie trust abuse, spam, bullying, conspiracy posts & insults to forum members. Ask the mods or admins to move Dogie's spam or off topic stalking posts to the link above.
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March 22, 2015, 10:26:47 AM
 #20

Quote

I have little doubt this is exactly why this structure exists.  Sue them, fine.  Where?  China?  Hong Kong?  The UK?  Sue who Alex Sovu, Cristina, Daniel or this holding company in the Virgin Islands.  T

China, Hong Kong is next to impossible to do unless you're willing to fly back and forth to China multiple times for your whatever thousand dollars.  Without the ability to bring group action it is prohibitively expensive for most customers to hire a lawyer and pursue them, and they know it.

I do know of one guy that is suing in the UK and that case is moving forward, from what I'm told.  That would be the only realistic avenue for most people I think, as it can be done remotely.

Looks like they are playing a shell game, but ultimately the director(s) in the UK are responsible - so target this guy as he will be taking all the money. You cannot just pick the jurisdiction that you want, in order to avoid claims against you. Ignore China, Hong Kong, Virgin Islands - they are just fronts for the people in the UK. They know what they are doing - ripping people off until the party ends.

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