Why This Greek Tragedy Could Mean Global Disaster

[Bit_Happy]

...To solve the problem, the (Greek) government hired Goldman Sachs to help tidy up its balance sheet. Goldman created a series of currency swap arrangements using fictional exchange rates. The swaps took billions of dollars of debt off Greece’s balance sheet and allowed the country to issue far more debt than what was actually showing up in its account ledgers. Goldman used similar financial engineering to help prop up ill-fated energy trader Enron Corp., and we all know how well that experiment turned out.

In other words, Greece never, ever should have been allowed to join the eurozone. But now that it’s part of it, there seems to be no end to the willingness of EU politicians to throw money at Greece to keep it from leaving.

Why This Greek Tragedy Could Mean Global Disaster
http://www.nestmann.com/why-this-greek-tragedy-could-mean-global-disaster


This is a big Gov't train wreck and how many more economies will collapse?
ps. The photos are not new, but Greece is still melting down.

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[NUFCrichard]

That is all well known and makes the whole crisis now even more of a joke than it actually appears at first glance.  What doesn't make sense to me is why they weren't thrown out of the euro straight away when this was found out?

It doesn't really explain why the Greek tragedy could mean global disaster either? They could be the first domino, but otherwise I doubt they will cause a global disaster.

[Snail2]

That is all well known and makes the whole crisis now even more of a joke than it actually appears at first glance.  What doesn't make sense to me is why they weren't thrown out of the euro straight away when this was found out?

It doesn't really explain why the Greek tragedy could mean global disaster either? They could be the first domino, but otherwise I doubt they will cause a global disaster.

A panic on the investors side and a weak can cause issues for the other mediterranean  EU states (financially not much better than Greece) what can trigger similar social upheavals like in Greece, and neither the Italian not the Spanish economies are something what the rest of the EU can manage without suffering a similar meltdown like in 2007-2008. If the EU goes into depression that will have a negative effect on the Chinese and Indian and only God knows on what other economies as well and then nobody will buy US treasury bonds... So everybody going to be in deep shit.

[patt0]

That is all well known and makes the whole crisis now even more of a joke than it actually appears at first glance.  What doesn't make sense to me is why they weren't thrown out of the euro straight away when this was found out?

It doesn't really explain why the Greek tragedy could mean global disaster either? They could be the first domino, but otherwise I doubt they will cause a global disaster.

A panic on the investors side and a weak can cause issues for the other mediterranean  EU states (financially not much better than Greece) what can trigger similar social upheavals like in Greece, and neither the Italian not the Spanish economies are something what the rest of the EU can manage without suffering a similar meltdown like in 2007-2008. If the EU goes into depression that will have a negative effect on the Chinese and Indian and only God knows on what other economies as well and then nobody will buy US treasury bonds... So everybody going to be in deep shit.

I think that it's not just US treasury bonds that don't get bought in Europe at least. Any product from the United States will be bought less and I think that is already happening with the Euro going down. : /
At least Europe will get more American tourists now lol.

[pattu1]

It doesn't really explain why the Greek tragedy could mean global disaster either? They could be the first domino, but otherwise I doubt they will cause a global disaster.

http://business.financialpost.com/2015/02/09/what-happens-if-greece-exits-the-eurozone-three-big-questions-explained/

What happens if Greece exits the eurozone?

- Even without a complete breakdown of the euro, a Greek exit will leave the European Central Bank holding billions of dollars of Greek debt and few options. The euro could face devaluation and leave Eurozone countries vulnerable to masses of investors retreating to safer shores.

- Furthermore, if Greece exits the Eurozone, investors will begin to view the weaker European economies – Cyprus, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, and possibly Italy – as risks. European countries will be forced to pay more to borrow money, and their equities will be tainted

- A slowdown in Europe could lead to further shocks to the world energy market and damage to global exports.

[KonstantinosM]

If Germany had paid war Reparations to Greece there would be no debt.


Nazis straight up stole HUGE amounts of money from the national bank of Greece. Other countries received reparations Greece got shitted on.


They want Greece to be in debt in order to steal some of the most beautiful places in the world. Greece is a paradise. Greek food is more than fit for gods, and greek beaches are so beautiful one could explore and have fun there day after day.


I hope climate change makes Greece a desert and kills all those thieves that have landed there with false pretenses and a manufactured debt.

[Snail2]

If Germany had paid war Reparations to Greece there would be no debt.

Nazis straight up stole HUGE amounts of money from the national bank of Greece. Other countries received reparations Greece got shitted on.

They want Greece to be in debt in order to steal some of the most beautiful places in the world. Greece is a paradise. Greek food is more than fit for gods, and greek beaches are so beautiful one could explore and have fun there day after day.

I hope climate change makes Greece a desert and kills all those thieves that have landed there with false pretenses and a manufactured debt.

I'm afraid mate this is more like preparation for the climate change. In your country during the late prehistoric and ancient Greek period the weather was mostly hotter than today but because of the see around it was humid as well. The Aegean region was able to support 12 million people during the times of the Byzantine Empire. (estimated population of some other European countries in the same time: France-10m, Germany 6-7m, England and Wales 2-3m). With today's agricultural technologies that would be a much bigger number. If you also calculate with the much lower energy demands too then Greece actually could be a pretty good place when large parts of Europe will turn to an arid or semi-arid wasteland with some underwater cities on the old shoreline. Italy, Spain and Portugal will be next targets I guess.

[dzambodzetem]

If Germany had paid war Reparations to Greece there would be no debt.


Nazis straight up stole HUGE amounts of money from the national bank of Greece. Other countries received reparations Greece got shitted on.


They want Greece to be in debt in order to steal some of the most beautiful places in the world. Greece is a paradise. Greek food is more than fit for gods, and greek beaches are so beautiful one could explore and have fun there day after day.


I hope climate change makes Greece a desert and kills all those thieves that have landed there with false pretenses and a manufactured debt.

I don't agree with you on this one. When Greece was bankrupting there were talks about buying small islands in order for Greece to save her budget. But ultimately Germany and other countries decided to help Greece not only to save economy but also to prevent Greece from selling their lands to other countries (like Russia for example).
As for reparations: countries like Czechoslovakia (present Czech and Slovakia), Poland, Hungary and many other that after second World War were left under ZSRR "protection" and could not participate in Marshall Plan. Greece was one of the countries that participated in Marshall Plan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#Expenditures

So you cannot say that after war Greece had not been given any kind of reparations. Today Greece problems are caused by Greek Government.

[NUFCrichard]

If Germany had paid war Reparations to Greece there would be no debt.

You're trying to make us believe Greece never recovered from the war? I heard most of Greece's problems come from its tax collection problems.
Your country is beautiful I'd be happy to move there one day.

I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if the Greeks used this argument to get into the Euro in the first place. The Germans owe then from the 2nd world war.
When the Greek economy was flying after joining the euro, and the German economy was doing badly, war reparations (from 60+ years ago) didn't get much press I note.

[picolo]

If Germany had paid war Reparations to Greece there would be no debt.


Nazis straight up stole HUGE amounts of money from the national bank of Greece. Other countries received reparations Greece got shitted on.


They want Greece to be in debt in order to steal some of the most beautiful places in the world. Greece is a paradise. Greek food is more than fit for gods, and greek beaches are so beautiful one could explore and have fun there day after day.


I hope climate change makes Greece a desert and kills all those thieves that have landed there with false pretenses and a manufactured debt.

Greece didn't pay its debts many times in the last 100 years, last time was only a few years ago. Plus Greece agreed not to ask for war reparations again and now they changed their mind ? I don't think so. It was 70 years ago and it should not be brought back.

[Bit_Happy]

That is all well known and makes the whole crisis now even more of a joke than it actually appears at first glance.  What doesn't make sense to me is why they weren't thrown out of the euro straight away when this was found out?

It doesn't really explain why the Greek tragedy could mean global disaster either? They could be the first domino, but otherwise I doubt they will cause a global disaster.

A panic on the investors side and a weak can cause issues for the other mediterranean  EU states (financially not much better than Greece) what can trigger similar social upheavals like in Greece, and neither the Italian not the Spanish economies are something what the rest of the EU can manage without suffering a similar meltdown like in 2007-2008. If the EU goes into depression that will have a negative effect on the Chinese and Indian and only God knows on what other economies as well and then nobody will buy US treasury bonds... So everybody going to be in deep shit.

Agreed, there is no economy strong enough to rescue several others. The century old global fiat bubble is eventually going to explode, but...
Somehow the complete meltdown keeps getting delayed:
How much longer can the party last?

[Beliathon]

That is all well known and makes the whole crisis now even more of a joke than it actually appears at first glance.  What doesn't make sense to me is why they weren't thrown out of the euro straight away when this was found out?

It doesn't really explain why the Greek tragedy could mean global disaster either? They could be the first domino, but otherwise I doubt they will cause a global disaster.

A panic on the investors side and a weak can cause issues for the other mediterranean  EU states (financially not much better than Greece) what can trigger similar social upheavals like in Greece, and neither the Italian not the Spanish economies are something what the rest of the EU can manage without suffering a similar meltdown like in 2007-2008. If the EU goes into depression that will have a negative effect on the Chinese and Indian and only God knows on what other economies as well and then nobody will buy US treasury bonds... So everybody going to be in deep shit.

Agreed, there is no economy strong enough to rescue several others. The century old global fiat bubble is eventually going to explode, but...
Somehow the complete meltdown keeps getting delayed:
How much longer can the party last?

Five years on the outside, but the economic meltdown will be slow and painful. Capitalist elite parasites will use every trick in the book to prevent their system from failing,  and they've been doing this for a long time,  they're good at it.

[u9y42]

Five years on the outside, but the economic meltdown will be slow and painful. Capitalist elite parasites will use every trick in the book to prevent their system from failing,  and they've been doing this for a long time,  they're good at it.

Are you sure it's going to take five years?

The next piece to fall might well be in the heartland of Europe, Austria, starting in its region of Carinthia: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-warner/11455671/Austria-is-fast-becoming-Europes-latest-debt-nightmare.html ("Austria is fast becoming Europe's latest debt nightmare"), and http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11447805/Eurozone-faces-first-regional-bankruptcy-as-debt-debacle-stalks-Austrias-Carinthia.html ("Eurozone faces first regional bankruptcy as debt debacle stalks Austria's Carinthia").

[...] Only in this case, the bonds are notionally guaranteed by the Austrian state of Carinthia, which now theoretically becomes liable for the bail-in. It’s an echo of the mess Ireland got itself into at the height of the banking crisis, when it foolishly attempted to stem the panic by underwriting all Irish banking liabilities; the move very nearly ended up bankrupting the entire country. Hypo will bankrupt Carinthia. [...]

[biggerbig]

In my opinion the biggest problem is that governments of many countries are spending more money than they have. Normal people want all kind of social privileges (some needed some not), politicians to secure their plaice in parliament are giving budget money on all kind of expenses so the voters will support their candidates. And ultimately when budget hole is to big to cover up countries start to bankrupt.

[Snail2]

Agreed, there is no economy strong enough to rescue several others. The century old global fiat bubble is eventually going to explode, but...
Somehow the complete meltdown keeps getting delayed:
How much longer can the party last?

You can see the first signs of "decaying" on the peripheries (BRICS pumping gold). I think it's still possible to delay a full scale meltdown until the population and the banks have the means and willingness to keep money circulating and governments can pump more money into the system while keeping the inflation on a manageable level.

[sickhouse]

That is all well known and makes the whole crisis now even more of a joke than it actually appears at first glance.  What doesn't make sense to me is why they weren't thrown out of the euro straight away when this was found out?

It doesn't really explain why the Greek tragedy could mean global disaster either? They could be the first domino, but otherwise I doubt they will cause a global disaster.

A panic on the investors side and a weak can cause issues for the other mediterranean  EU states (financially not much better than Greece) what can trigger similar social upheavals like in Greece, and neither the Italian not the Spanish economies are something what the rest of the EU can manage without suffering a similar meltdown like in 2007-2008. If the EU goes into depression that will have a negative effect on the Chinese and Indian and only God knows on what other economies as well and then nobody will buy US treasury bonds... So everybody going to be in deep shit.

Agreed, there is no economy strong enough to rescue several others. The century old global fiat bubble is eventually going to explode, but...
Somehow the complete meltdown keeps getting delayed:
How much longer can the party last?

Five years on the outside, but the economic meltdown will be slow and painful. Capitalist elite parasites will use every trick in the book to prevent their system from failing,  and they've been doing this for a long time,  they're good at it.

The meltdown is here already but we doesn't notice it, it's slowly going on without people reacting and one day boom the bubble explodes. New world order will happen sooner or later people say but it's already here. Robotic human beings slaves to the technology, look at the new generation (2-15 year olds) getting into it way to deep, 2 year olds with Iphones - moron parents..

[Beliathon]

Five years on the outside, but the economic meltdown will be slow and painful. Capitalist elite parasites will use every trick in the book to prevent their system from failing,  and they've been doing this for a long time,  they're good at it.

Are you sure it's going to take five years?

Not at all! That's why I wrote, "on the outside", it means "probable maximum length of time".

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

That is all well known and makes the whole crisis now even more of a joke than it actually appears at first glance.  What doesn't make sense to me is why they weren't thrown out of the euro straight away when this was found out?

It doesn't really explain why the Greek tragedy could mean global disaster either? They could be the first domino, but otherwise I doubt they will cause a global disaster.

A panic on the investors side and a weak can cause issues for the other mediterranean  EU states (financially not much better than Greece) what can trigger similar social upheavals like in Greece, and neither the Italian not the Spanish economies are something what the rest of the EU can manage without suffering a similar meltdown like in 2007-2008. If the EU goes into depression that will have a negative effect on the Chinese and Indian and only God knows on what other economies as well and then nobody will buy US treasury bonds... So everybody going to be in deep shit.

Agreed, there is no economy strong enough to rescue several others. The century old global fiat bubble is eventually going to explode, but...
Somehow the complete meltdown keeps getting delayed:
How much longer can the party last?

Five years on the outside, but the economic meltdown will be slow and painful. Capitalist elite parasites will use every trick in the book to prevent their system from failing,  and they've been doing this for a long time,  they're good at it.

The meltdown is here already but we doesn't notice it, it's slowly going on without people reacting and one day boom the bubble explodes. New world order will happen sooner or later people say but it's already here. Robotic human beings slaves to the technology, look at the new generation (2-15 year olds) getting into it way to deep, 2 year olds with Iphones - moron parents..

Technology is good, it depends on you use. We'll slowly become half cyborgs like it or not. All these technologies are part of us already.