ProTip vs Changetip One of BTC's Killer Community Apps?

[Addition]

Some of you might already have heard of this venture, but I am fairly impressed and wanted to share with you:

The concept has many applications when you start to think about it, but in simple terms it allows for 100% p2p donations for "all" content creators on the web.

Here's some links for more info:

website: http://my.protip.is/

Indiegogo (kickstarter-like) crowd funding: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/protip-peer-to-peer-tipping-for-the-web

Video (live announcement): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3uclsfGSog

Video (live update): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYjeevK9_RU

In my opinion this is really fantastic work from  Leo Campbell, Chris Ellis, Ksenya Serova, Thomas Hunt, David Bailey & Theo Goodman - the project is entirely open-source/non-profit and appeals to me because of it's altruistic use of BTC's protocol.

Now Changetip is cool too - however they are a "middle-man" in some respects and may encounter some client data protection issues in the future,,, what do you guys think??


Anyway I would urge the BTC community on here to take and look at this project and give support if you dig - cheers folks


 

[Addition]

Here's their youtube page/video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvMmIeIs_hY

BTC's going main stream, with projects like this!

[Frost]

ChangeTip is much better and I see no chance for ProTip to stay on the market. ProTip will be forgotten very fast.

[kulme]

ChangeTip is much better and I see no chance for ProTip to stay on the market. ProTip will be forgotten very fast.

I think along the same lines. The idea is really good, however the "middle man factor" and the data protection aren't really big factors for people to move to a new tipping system. Also change tip has already been established on all the social networking sites including its recent addition to facebook. And I doubt proTip to be able to capture that big of a market too fast. It might however run successfully side by side .

[stevenh512]

I'd like to see them both run successfully side by side, I like both for different reasons and they do each have their own set of advantages and disadvantages.

My understanding of Protip is that all tipping is done peer to peer on the blockchain. This of course fits perfectly with the idea of Bitcoin since it's decentralized and trustless. Being entirely on-chain does have some disadvantages that make it less than ideal for microtransactions. Extensive use of Protip could pollute the UTXO set with a lot of small transactions and result in people playing larger fees to spend their BTC, it also makes it difficult to send someone a tip smaller than the "dust limit".

Changetip is great for aggregating microtransactions off-chain, minimizing fees and potential UTXO bloat. Of course it comes with all the potential disadvantages of relying on a trusted third-party, something Protip avoids.

Since I personally trust my coins a lot more in my own wallet than in any wallet run by a third-party (with the possible exception of a GreenAddress 2of2), I would use Changetip for smaller tipping transactions like you usually see on Reddit and I'd use Protip for larger transactions like donating to an opensource project I want to support.

[hua_hui]

I'd like to see them both run successfully side by side, I like both for different reasons and they do each have their own set of advantages and disadvantages.

My understanding of Protip is that all tipping is done peer to peer on the blockchain. This of course fits perfectly with the idea of Bitcoin since it's decentralized and trustless. Being entirely on-chain does have some disadvantages that make it less than ideal for microtransactions. Extensive use of Protip could pollute the UTXO set with a lot of small transactions and result in people playing larger fees to spend their BTC, it also makes it difficult to send someone a tip smaller than the "dust limit".

Changetip is great for aggregating microtransactions off-chain, minimizing fees and potential UTXO bloat. Of course it comes with all the potential disadvantages of relying on a trusted third-party, something Protip avoids.

Since I personally trust my coins a lot more in my own wallet than in any wallet run by a third-party (with the possible exception of a GreenAddress 2of2), I would use Changetip for smaller tipping transactions like you usually see on Reddit and I'd use Protip for larger transactions like donating to an opensource project I want to support.

I'd like to see both of them are existing in the market, competing with each other, and perfecting their service. Then we, as a cunstomer, would choose the best service to cater for our needs in different situations.

[Kprawn]

I think ChangeTip made it easy for people to start tipping {Account creation} .....if ProTip can do the same, they would catch on quicker.

The idea of p2p tipping sounds nice, but people would struggle with the BTC side of things. {Securing wallets}

I like the fact that Protip is OpenSource...  {It will help with the transparancy side of things} This seems to be in the crowdfunding phase and by the time they enter the market, ChangeTip would have taken a huge share of the market. 

[Q7]

Basically I agree with what stevenh512 say. I don't see one of it intruding into the other business model. Both are certainly into their own niche. If I understand correctly, you use changetip to send small tips if you basically agree with what the users say for instance in facebook, twitter and these are social media related. On the other hand, though I haven't really try using protip but basically it gives a channel for the blog readers to provide tips, more like helping to support development of the blog, so in other words that is just blog related. Both can certainly complement each other well.

[krach]

Hi,

Basically I agree with what stevenh512 say. I don't see one of it intruding into the other business model. Both are certainly into their own niche. If I understand correctly, you use changetip to send small tips if you basically agree with what the users say for instance in facebook, twitter and these are social media related. On the other hand, though I haven't really try using protip but basically it gives a channel for the blog readers to provide tips, more like helping to support development of the blog, so in other words that is just blog related. Both can certainly complement each other well.

Protip works anywhere on any page that has a bitcoin address. If you have a twitter account and have a bitcoin address on it then ProTip will detect it. It is not limited to blogs.

I think ChangeTip made it easy for people to start tipping {Account creation} .....if ProTip can do the same, they would catch on quicker.

The idea of p2p tipping sounds nice, but people would struggle with the BTC side of things. {Securing wallets}

I like the fact that Protip is OpenSource...  Grin {It will help with the transparancy side of things} This seems to be in the crowdfunding phase and by the time they enter the market, ChangeTip would have taken a huge share of the market.

What is very true is that CT solves the issue of creating a bitcoin address for someone without one. It does a good job of that. As far as securing wallets protip is a bitcoin wallet and you can just put small amounts on there. If your computer is secure anyway then there is no issue, and you do not have the risk of a central location, like a website, holding your bitcoins. ChangeTip is a VC funded company, there goal is to get profit for the company and the VCs, that is fine, however ProTip is an open source project and will continue to develop more features if funding continues. "The Market" would be making money on people tipping, and we would like to make this a P2P market rather than a market full of middlemen.

-Theo
ProTip Launch Team

[xDan]

It's nice idea, and the fact that it just relies on searching for bitcoin addresses in HTML is EXCELLENT.

However - what incentives are there to tip? I tend to think public display of the tip (like ChangeTip does), is actually part of the reason people tip. So they are seen by others to be giving, there is a social and interactive aspect. I wonder if it will take off in any viral fashion without these public displays of tipping.

[krach]

However - what incentives are there to tip? I tend to think public display of the tip (like ChangeTip does), is actually part of the reason people tip. So they are seen by others to be giving, there is a social and interactive aspect. I wonder if it will take off in any viral fashion without these public displays of tipping.

If a content provider gets bitcoin payments (tips) then they can do away with third party advertising and the user does not have to see these ads. At the moment people are getting the content for "free" but it is not really free. They are paying with their data one way or another.

Allthough it may be "viral" to tip on twitter for everyone to see, it does not mean you can not simply post about you supporting someone on any social media channel you want if you do not use CT. Also you have to think how much time is involved in sending 0.0001$ or even 0.10$ via CT, you have to send it, and the person you tip has to go through the effort of clicking here and there to get the funds, and spend a lot of time in relation to the ammount.

However with ProTip it is more automated so that you do not have to make a public spectale of every tip that you make. It gives eveyone more time to do what they really want to do.

In the end the whole viral aspect of CT is to promote CT and not bitcoin, to get more users on board all the while spamming people that are not even asking for tips in the first place often times.

Also we need to be realistic about just how "viral" CT has become. A lot of the viralness is fueled by CT employees themselves sending tips to people with funds that they might have gotten from CT in the first place, is that really tipping? Also there is a very large ammount of CT tips that are not collected.

CT does a good job of creating a bitcoin address for people that do not have a wallet. ProTip is open source you will be able to fork it and change it if you want, you could create an altcoin verion of ProTip ect ect. The question is, would you like to support a company which provides a third party bitcoin servece and that needs to somehow turn profit on millions that have been invested in it -or- an open source project that will be able to create software that anyone can use and change with minimal funding compared to what most VCs put into some start ups. Do you see value in open source code that will be around forever or in a company that has the goal of turning you into a source for profits, nothing against profits but just think about it.

-Theo
ProTip Launch Team

[krach]

ChangeTip is much better and I see no chance for ProTip to stay on the market. ProTip will be forgotten very fast.

I think along the same lines. The idea is really good, however the "middle man factor" and the data protection aren't really big factors for people to move to a new tipping system. Also change tip has already been established on all the social networking sites including its recent addition to facebook. And I doubt proTip to be able to capture that big of a market too fast. It might however run successfully side by side .

ProTip works on Facebook, without asking permision, without asking the api, simply put a bitcoin address on facebook and it will detect it.

[bluemountain]

both of these will be big in the future the different dynamics mean that both can have a market share

[Addition]

Hi,

Basically I agree with what stevenh512 say. I don't see one of it intruding into the other business model. Both are certainly into their own niche. If I understand correctly, you use changetip to send small tips if you basically agree with what the users say for instance in facebook, twitter and these are social media related. On the other hand, though I haven't really try using protip but basically it gives a channel for the blog readers to provide tips, more like helping to support development of the blog, so in other words that is just blog related. Both can certainly complement each other well.

Protip works anywhere on any page that has a bitcoin address. If you have a twitter account and have a bitcoin address on it then ProTip will detect it. It is not limited to blogs.

I think ChangeTip made it easy for people to start tipping {Account creation} .....if ProTip can do the same, they would catch on quicker.

The idea of p2p tipping sounds nice, but people would struggle with the BTC side of things. {Securing wallets}

I like the fact that Protip is OpenSource...  Grin {It will help with the transparancy side of things} This seems to be in the crowdfunding phase and by the time they enter the market, ChangeTip would have taken a huge share of the market.

What is very true is that CT solves the issue of creating a bitcoin address for someone without one. It does a good job of that. As far as securing wallets protip is a bitcoin wallet and you can just put small amounts on there. If your computer is secure anyway then there is no issue, and you do not have the risk of a central location, like a website, holding your bitcoins. ChangeTip is a VC funded company, there goal is to get profit for the company and the VCs, that is fine, however ProTip is an open source project and will continue to develop more features if funding continues. "The Market" would be making money on people tipping, and we would like to make this a P2P market rather than a market full of middlemen.

-Theo
ProTip Launch Team

Thanks for chiming in ; )

Theo, your team have something quite powerful here - I imagine many grateful ProTippers in near future, so keep up the great work!!

I was just thinking of how ProTip could work with affiliate Registered Charities too, this would be great for marketing : ) Incidentally, is ProTip registered as an NPO yet?

[Addition]

ProTip Campaign Update:

$4000 in a week - Nice work all!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNYW8-GjBo8

[xDan]

However - what incentives are there to tip? I tend to think public display of the tip (like ChangeTip does), is actually part of the reason people tip. So they are seen by others to be giving, there is a social and interactive aspect. I wonder if it will take off in any viral fashion without these public displays of tipping.

If a content provider gets bitcoin payments (tips) then they can do away with third party advertising and the user does not have to see these ads. At the moment people are getting the content for "free" but it is not really free. They are paying with their data one way or another.

That's great, if it works I might even try it on my own website I'd really love to get away from Ads and Google's data mining. And Bitcoin can be that path, one day.

...

I think it's great to have an open system. But I think you underestimate human psychology; it's not as fun to tip if nobody else sees you do it. At the same time, deliberately notifying others you have tipped smacks of self congratulation.

I am simply wondering if it's possible for you to have anything like that. E.g. ability to see other people who recently donated to a given website, even with their social media profiles optionally displayed.

I think it's an added incentive to donate too, if you can see that others are donating. It's a social thing.

(Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see an open source alternative to ChangeTip. I want you to succeed.)

[Addition]

ProTip Campaign Update:

$4450 in 8 days!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK3PnP01Ucg

[Addition]

ChangeTip is much better and I see no chance for ProTip to stay on the market. ProTip will be forgotten very fast.

I think along the same lines. The idea is really good, however the "middle man factor" and the data protection aren't really big factors for people to move to a new tipping system. Also change tip has already been established on all the social networking sites including its recent addition to facebook. And I doubt proTip to be able to capture that big of a market too fast. It might however run successfully side by side .

ProTip works on Facebook, without asking permision, without asking the api, simply put a bitcoin address on facebook and it will detect it.

Hey Theo, there are some great campaigning work over at the Bitgive Foundation, perhaps you guys could do something together?  ; )

http://bitgivefoundation.org/charitable-campaigns/



Also, I know the project is open-source and code is available via github? But would it not be a good idea for you guys to make the Wallet Extraction proprietary software?

For example, if I wanted to develop another BTC project/business using your Wallet Extraction/Capturing software, am I free/able to use your backend code to integrate into my own project?

Perhaps if you guys did make a separate proprietary software that Extracts/Captures BTC addresses, it could help fund ProTip.

[krach]

Interesting ideas, I just made a new thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1005282.new#new
There are some more screen shot of what we are working on.
Thanks a lot for the support and feedback!

-Theo
ProTip Launch Team

[Twipple]

Interesting ideas, I just made a new thread here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1005282.new#new
There are some more screen shot of what we are working on.
Thanks a lot for the support and feedback!

-Theo
ProTip Launch Team

I am not sure. Is Protip a competitor or something that intends to stay just like changetip in the market  ?