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Author Topic: Liberals, why do you like Bitcoin?  (Read 14375 times)
benjamindees
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May 27, 2011, 05:52:58 PM
 #61

Welcome to the Zeitgeist philosophy.

Actually it's just technocracy, which had as much of an influence on Ayn Rand's industrialist-train-magnate rape fantasies as it did on Jacques Fresco's post-modern communist psycho-babble, and which predates both by several decades.

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May 27, 2011, 05:54:22 PM
 #62

It has the potential to hamper the government's ability to run society by allowing for citizens to control the earnings of their labor in an anonymous private environment. There is little accountability in a citizen paying their dues. How could you like this? Why are you here? Why don't you just keep supporting the US dollar or other fiat currencies?

What I don't understand is why you conservatives like bitcoin. It has the potential to hamper the government's ability to monitor society by allowing for citizens to hide their activities in an anonymous private environment. There is little accountability in a single citizen paying their dues, forcing the higher taxation of big businesses and the wealthy who own those businesses. How could you like this? Why are you here? Why don't you just keep supporting the US dollar or other fiat currencies since it enables the existence of the military industrial complex?
I never said I was a conservative.

Anyways, good points.
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May 27, 2011, 06:09:19 PM
 #63

They are good points. And actually, I see a much greater likelihood of resistance from security statist and pro-military conservatives than from liberals of any stripe (other than die-hard Krugmanites, but they're a very small minority).

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MoonShadow
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May 27, 2011, 07:00:40 PM
 #64

It has the potential to hamper the government's ability to run society by allowing for citizens to control the earnings of their labor in an anonymous private environment. There is little accountability in a citizen paying their dues. How could you like this? Why are you here? Why don't you just keep supporting the US dollar or other fiat currencies?

What I don't understand is why you conservatives like bitcoin. It has the potential to hamper the government's ability to monitor society by allowing for citizens to hide their activities in an anonymous private environment. There is little accountability in a single citizen paying their dues, forcing the higher taxation of big businesses and the wealthy who own those businesses. How could you like this? Why are you here? Why don't you just keep supporting the US dollar or other fiat currencies since it enables the existence of the military industrial complex?

Wait, there are conservatives here too?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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May 27, 2011, 11:47:10 PM
 #65

Why you preoccupied with liberals, politics, conservatives - etc.

Who gives a fuck?  Seriously?

I'm here to make money.  Guess what?  No ideology makes sense,  in fact, nothing does.

+1

nickwit
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May 28, 2011, 09:31:58 AM
 #66

I'm a liberal - the tax-structure, and welfare-structure needs to change... but it kindof needs to change anyway

The pirate-party guy's take on it is here

http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/19/the-information-policy-case-for-flat-tax-and-basic-income/

Basically shift income tax to corporation tax and sales-tax. We (as a society) need to pay taxes to avoid becoming debt-slaves to corporations.

The universal, flat-payment welfare thing is actually quite a good idea. Basically extend child-benefit (that civilised, socialist countries have) to be life-long. No means-testing, no discrimination. How to pay for it? Easy. Tax corporations/the aristocracy at the rate that got us out of the last depression - 60%.



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May 28, 2011, 01:01:37 PM
 #67

I'm a liberal - the tax-structure, and welfare-structure needs to change... but it kindof needs to change anyway

The pirate-party guy's take on it is here

http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/19/the-information-policy-case-for-flat-tax-and-basic-income/

Basically shift income tax to corporation tax and sales-tax. We (as a society) need to pay taxes to avoid becoming debt-slaves to corporations.

The universal, flat-payment welfare thing is actually quite a good idea. Basically extend child-benefit (that civilised, socialist countries have) to be life-long. No means-testing, no discrimination. How to pay for it? Easy. Tax corporations/the aristocracy at the rate that got us out of the last depression - 60%.


How do we tax the aristocracy 60% in a Bitcoin-using society? Their total wealth and income would be anonymous, and luxury taxes hurt the poor producers more (due to inelasticity). Someone who earns much but consumes little would be invisible.

Edit: having actually read the article Lips sealed I see now that he refers to VAT, which is still a sales tax on wholesalers.
smellyBobby
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May 28, 2011, 01:49:04 PM
 #68

Whats stopping the state from creating it's own block-chain, applying constraints on that block-chain  so that taxes in some form are collected and social services offered?

I need a job!!!!

Justice Dragons: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=16351.msg267881#msg267881

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Explodicle
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May 28, 2011, 01:56:03 PM
 #69

Whats stopping the state from creating it's own block-chain, applying constraints on that block-chain  so that taxes in some form are collected and social services offered?

Nothing. In fact I'm already planning to steal the Fed's private keys so I can have free money!  Grin
smellyBobby
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May 28, 2011, 02:05:13 PM
 #70

I can see a tax being incorporated into bitcoin soon. A tax to fund the faucet, more bounties, .....

I need a job!!!!

Justice Dragons: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=16351.msg267881#msg267881

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May 28, 2011, 05:46:22 PM
 #71

I can see a tax being incorporated into bitcoin soon. A tax to fund the faucet, more bounties, .....

If the libertarians subsequently forked the project, would you choose to use the taxed version?
MoonShadow
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May 28, 2011, 09:47:30 PM
 #72

Whats stopping the state from creating it's own block-chain, applying constraints on that block-chain  so that taxes in some form are collected and social services offered?

Nothing, technically.  But the question is, who would use that system over Bitcoin?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Columbus
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May 29, 2011, 12:36:02 AM
 #73

Any conservatives care to say why they like bitcoins? Your using US Government regulated electricity, over the government regulated internet, on your FFC regulated computers, to make money for adding nothing to society and not paying any taxes. Talk about leeching off the government. Get a real job.
benjamindees
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May 29, 2011, 01:14:03 AM
 #74

I think, if there are any conservatives here, they would say that electricity is regulated by States Rights not the Feds, that the satanic internet is not regulated nearly enough, that FCC Part 15 is not actually a license but an exemption, and that not paying taxes to the Mooslim Communist Non-American Obummer (not my president) is their patriotic duty.  But there probably aren't any here, since they are all busy working at their Real Jobs or Defending Our Freedoms from terrorists or whatever.

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May 29, 2011, 01:24:59 AM
 #75

Colonize space, and this limitation ceases to exist.

Thats what I'm talking about. I want a space ship.  The sun is expanding and in 4 - 6 billion years from now the earth will be uninhabitable.  Better get of this rock before it gets too hot.
smellyBobby
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May 29, 2011, 01:50:00 AM
 #76

I can see a tax being incorporated into bitcoin soon. A tax to fund the faucet, more bounties, .....

If the libertarians subsequently forked the project, would you choose to use the taxed version?

Whats stopping the state from creating it's own block-chain, applying constraints on that block-chain  so that taxes in some form are collected and social services offered?

Nothing, technically.  But the question is, who would use that system over Bitcoin?

Naturally it will depend on how it is taxed, how and what are the taxes used for, i.e commonsense. And the great thing about crypto-currencies is that if no one is willing to back the taxation/spending structure, then people will not use that crypto-currency; the free market at work and very different from today's world, where we have no real choice over how our taxes are spent-> We are geographically constrained to the country we live in.

I could take this further, authorities will arise from the universe of crypto-currencies; all competing for citizens, is such a paradigm really possible, where citizens dictate terms to authorities ??   Could this lead to conflict between the different crypto-currency communities? Maybe this will be offset by citizens participating in multiple crypto-currencies?



I need a job!!!!

Justice Dragons: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=16351.msg267881#msg267881

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Anonymous
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May 29, 2011, 03:53:46 AM
 #77

Your using US Government regulated electricity, over the government regulated internet, on your FFC regulated computers...
All those things would be quite fine without the US government.
ron
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May 31, 2011, 12:17:41 PM
 #78

Real reason liberals like bitcoins: They get money without doing any work by mining them Tongue

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NghtRppr
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May 31, 2011, 01:33:22 PM
 #79

No ideology makes sense, in fact, nothing does.

That's edgy but I was against ideology before it was cool. Cool
chickenado
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May 31, 2011, 01:45:51 PM
 #80

Real reason liberals like bitcoins: They get money without doing any work by mining them Tongue

The funny thing is, I have never done any mining because it's just too much work!

I may as well use my unemployment benefit to purchase BTC on mtgox directly. Grin
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