RandomQ VS TheBitMan Small Claims Court State of New York

[RandomQ]

This is a Demand of Money Required by Law before taking someone to small claims court

TheBitMan owes RandomQ $600, and has 24 hrs to pay via bitcoins to the address below

My Payment address 1Kf5qMuQkN3T2dAR4EPeBZREnfy6C7MWAS

---------------------------------------------------
 $40 - Unique Transaction ID # 5KC55551L6278421G
 $20 - Unique Transaction ID # 83563526SH281730U
 $50 - Unique Transaction ID # 57907370R64832243
 $50 - Unique Transaction ID # 5XJ43285W8169715B
 $40 - Unique Transaction ID # 7UR80556E2735483X
$200 - Unique Transaction ID # 0JX22215FH012201M
$200 - Unique Transaction ID # 5PC314948F217464A
----------------------------------------------------


A small Claims court filing will be filed in Suffolk County, New York

Against TheBitMan
superbowlchampsnygiants@yahoo.com
thebitman@aol.com

and if he is a minor his parent will be added to the claim.

I have possible names of TheBitMan and his Parents
ST***** A*****

TE*** A*****

CH***** A*****

This Thread will be for the process of documenting my small claims filing, Please Flame in the main Post.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83679.420

Thank You


IANAL / TINLA = "I am not a lawyer" / "This is not legal advice"

[John (John K.)]

This is a Demand of Money Required by Law before taking someone to small claims court

TheBitMan owes RandomQ $600, and has 24 hrs to pay via bitcoins to the address below

My Payment address 1Kf5qMuQkN3T2dAR4EPeBZREnfy6C7MWAS

---------------------------------------------------
 $40 - Unique Transaction ID # 5KC55551L6278421G
 $20 - Unique Transaction ID # 83563526SH281730U
 $50 - Unique Transaction ID # 57907370R64832243
 $50 - Unique Transaction ID # 5XJ43285W8169715B
 $40 - Unique Transaction ID # 7UR80556E2735483X
$200 - Unique Transaction ID # 0JX22215FH012201M
$200 - Unique Transaction ID # 5PC314948F217464A
----------------------------------------------------


A small Claims court filing will be filed in Suffolk County, New York

Against TheBitMan
superbowlchampsnygiants@yahoo.com
thebitman@aol.com

and if he is a minor his parent will be added to the claim.

I have possible names of TheBitMan and his Parents
ST***** A*****

TE*** A*****

CH***** A*****

This Thread will be for the process of documenting my small claims filing, Please Flame in the main Post.

Thank You

I thought that by law you're required to either send a certified recipient mail to his address or phone him to tell him verbally? Not too sure about this though. 

[RandomQ]

I thought that by law you're required to either send a certified recipient mail to his address or phone him to tell him verbally? Not too sure about this though.  

Before a small claim you must request that the money be paid back, via any method.

Once I file a john doe small court claim, then I can get his info from paypal,yahoo, and aol and serve him with the real claim.

[John (John K.)]

I thought that by law you're required to either send a certified recipient mail to his address or phone him to tell him verbally? Not too sure about this though. 

Before a small claim you must request that the money be paid back, via any method.

Once I file a john doe small court claim, then I can get his info from paypal,yahoo, and aol and serve him with the claim.

Okay, I learnt something new today. 

[RandomQ]

Email sent to all known Emails addresses




Image showing $600 reversed from my account.

[RandomQ]

Thank you to the Admins for providing the Message Logs (of messages between RandomQ and TheBitMan)

I sold him BTC from June 3, 2012 to June 17, 2012 and have the message logs to prove it

7.7   BTC $40
3.69  BTC $20
8.54  BTC $50
8.62  BTC $50
6.75  BTC $40
31.40 BTC $200
31.55 BTC $200
----------------

[RandomQ]

Small claims court paperwork is all filled out and ready to be signed by me in front of a Notary.

Since the 24 Hour deadline is after business hours on 8/7/2012, I will get it signed and mailed on 8/8/2012.

[Turbor]

how did he pay you ?

[D4CH]

Please follow up on this, if something happens! I'm quite interested in this.

[RandomQ]

how did he pay you ?

Paypal

He owes 13 people around $4300.

[RandomQ]

The 24hr Deadline is over with and payment has not been made.

"TheBitMan" is said to be making a payment Friday or Saturday this week.

The small claims court paper is filled out and ready to go, I will need to visit a notary before they are sent out to court.


For Every $500 in payment made to the group it would pay off $70 of the debt.

Getting Paid Every two weeks, would pay off the debt in around 4 and 1/2 months.

I'm estimating that the court will issue a judgement in around ~2 months time.

So I'm willing to take the risk and go for a small claims court payout.

[TheBitMan]

The 24hr Deadline is over with and payment has not been made.

"TheBitMan" is said to be making a payment Friday or Saturday this week.

The small claims court paper is filled out and ready to go, I will need to visit a notary before they are sent out to court.


For Every $500 in payment made to the group it would pay off $70 of the debt.

Getting Paid Every two weeks, would pay off the debt in around 4 and 1/2 months.

I'm estimating that the court will issue a judgement in around ~2 months time.

So I'm willing to take the risk and go for a small claims court payout.

It might be more than $500.. but do what you want to do.

[Kluge]

So.... you're going to try suing a minor for breech of contract? I'm pretty sure you can't add his parents to a claim, because the contract wasn't valid in the first place.

IANAL, either, though, so maybe someone will clear this up for me. I've never really understand why you could sue a minor for breaking your window, but not for failing to fulfill a contractual obligation -- or if this could even be considered a contract since it was an "immediate" transaction. Pretty sure minors couldn't get away with taking goods from a store and not paying, but I guess that'd be a more clear-cut case of theft.

Oh, well - interested to see what comes of this. Shitty situation for everyone - sorry you both are going through this.

[RandomQ]

So.... you're going to try suing a minor for breech of contract? I'm pretty sure you can't add his parents to a claim, because the contract wasn't valid in the first place.

IANAL, either, though, so maybe someone will clear this up for me. I've never really understand why you could sue a minor for breaking your window, but not for failing to fulfill a contractual obligation -- or if this could even be considered a contract since it was an "immediate" transaction. Pretty sure minors couldn't get away with taking goods from a store and not paying, but I guess that'd be a more clear-cut case of theft.

Oh, well - interested to see what comes of this. Shitty situation for everyone - sorry you both are going through this.

Option 1
What if an adult makes a contract with a minor because the minor claims to be over eighteen?

If a minor lies about his or her age when signing a contract, and the other person had good reasons to believe that the minor was capable of making a contract, the minor will not be allowed to cancel the contract.
Option 2
If the minor knowingly makes a false representation about his age for the purpose of acquiring goods or services then claiming the defense of infancy, the minor could be committing the crime of theft by deception. While minors may void contracts they can still be charged with a crime if their intent is criminal in nature.
Paypal accounts require you to be 18 years old.

2.1 Eligibility.  To be eligible to use the PayPal Services, you must be at least 18 years old and a resident of the United States or one of the countries listed on the PayPal WorldWide page. This Agreement applies only to Users who are residents of the United States. If you are a resident of another country, you may access the agreement that applies to you from our website in your country.

TheBitman Lied about his Age by creating a Paypal account, when using that account he commited fraud by lying about his age to other people.

If the small claims case gets throw out, I will proceed with a criminal compliant on fraud charges.

[Kluge]

So.... you're going to try suing a minor for breech of contract? I'm pretty sure you can't add his parents to a claim, because the contract wasn't valid in the first place.

IANAL, either, though, so maybe someone will clear this up for me. I've never really understand why you could sue a minor for breaking your window, but not for failing to fulfill a contractual obligation -- or if this could even be considered a contract since it was an "immediate" transaction. Pretty sure minors couldn't get away with taking goods from a store and not paying, but I guess that'd be a more clear-cut case of theft.

Oh, well - interested to see what comes of this. Shitty situation for everyone - sorry you both are going through this.

Option 1
What if an adult makes a contract with a minor because the minor claims to be over eighteen?

If a minor lies about his or her age when signing a contract, and the other person had good reasons to believe that the minor was capable of making a contract, the minor will not be allowed to cancel the contract.
Option 2
If the minor knowingly makes a false representation about his age for the purpose of acquiring goods or services then claiming the defense of infancy, the minor could be committing the crime of theft by deception. While minors may void contracts they can still be charged with a crime if their intent is criminal in nature.
Paypal accounts require you to be 18 years old.

2.1 Eligibility.  To be eligible to use the PayPal Services, you must be at least 18 years old and a resident of the United States or one of the countries listed on the PayPal WorldWide page. This Agreement applies only to Users who are residents of the United States. If you are a resident of another country, you may access the agreement that applies to you from our website in your country.

TheBitman Lied about his Age by creating a Paypal account, when using that account he commited fraud by lying about his age.

If the small claims case gets throw out, I will proceed with a criminal compliant on fraud charges.

I'd assume the judge would claim that the minor claiming he was an adult doesn't make the minor an adult, and his lie doesn't change the law, in the same way you couldn't have sex with a minor even if the minor claimed he/she was an adult.

You could tell PayPal he lied about his age, which is a ToS violation, so it might be even more difficult for BitMan to recover funds from them, but that sounds counter-productive. It seems like a tragedy to press criminal charges against someone because they had PayPal funds frozen and didn't have reserve funds to cover the problem. I strongly suggest he tells his parents, now, as I believe that was previously only being considered.

I'll check with some other lenders and see if we can get this situation resolved amicably for everyone. Please do not press criminal charges against him...

ETA: Hrm. After talking with someone else... I take back everything I've read in this thread, assuming the BitMan is not a minor. If BitMan is a minor, I'd be willing to go splitsies on a notarized, co-signed, secured loan to him.

[rjk]

Have fun proving intent.

[RandomQ]

So.... you're going to try suing a minor for breech of contract? I'm pretty sure you can't add his parents to a claim, because the contract wasn't valid in the first place.

IANAL, either, though, so maybe someone will clear this up for me. I've never really understand why you could sue a minor for breaking your window, but not for failing to fulfill a contractual obligation -- or if this could even be considered a contract since it was an "immediate" transaction. Pretty sure minors couldn't get away with taking goods from a store and not paying, but I guess that'd be a more clear-cut case of theft.

Oh, well - interested to see what comes of this. Shitty situation for everyone - sorry you both are going through this.

Option 1
What if an adult makes a contract with a minor because the minor claims to be over eighteen?

If a minor lies about his or her age when signing a contract, and the other person had good reasons to believe that the minor was capable of making a contract, the minor will not be allowed to cancel the contract.
Option 2
If the minor knowingly makes a false representation about his age for the purpose of acquiring goods or services then claiming the defense of infancy, the minor could be committing the crime of theft by deception. While minors may void contracts they can still be charged with a crime if their intent is criminal in nature.
Paypal accounts require you to be 18 years old.

2.1 Eligibility.  To be eligible to use the PayPal Services, you must be at least 18 years old and a resident of the United States or one of the countries listed on the PayPal WorldWide page. This Agreement applies only to Users who are residents of the United States. If you are a resident of another country, you may access the agreement that applies to you from our website in your country.

TheBitman Lied about his Age by creating a Paypal account, when using that account he commited fraud by lying about his age.

If the small claims case gets throw out, I will proceed with a criminal compliant on fraud charges.

I'd assume the judge would claim that the minor claiming he was an adult doesn't make the minor an adult, and his lie doesn't change the law, in the same way you couldn't have sex with a minor even if the minor claimed he/she was an adult.

You could tell PayPal he lied about his age, which is a ToS violation, so it might be even more difficult for BitMan to recover funds from them, but that sounds counter-productive. It seems like a tragedy to press criminal charges against someone because they had PayPal funds frozen and didn't have reserve funds to cover the problem. I strongly suggest he tells his parents, now, as I believe that was previously only being considered.

I'll check with some other lenders and see if we can get this situation resolved amicably for everyone. Please do not press criminal charges against him...

The PayPal account has already been flagged by PayPal Legal Department for AML / KYC Violations. They will only be releasing the fund if he can verify who he is and he is over 18 and the funds are not proceeds
of criminal operations. There is a chance the the Account will be Seized outright since he can't prove he is 18 till June 2013.

This is not a victim less crime, I've had damages (NSF Fee's+ bank charges) due the paypal charge backs.
Paypal Collection Department is trying to collect from me.

I've had to close Bank Accounts and stop selling on Ebay because of this.

My loses due to this are way over the original amount I have lost.

[RandomQ]

Have fun proving intent.

The perpetrator's intent to deceive is usually the hardest element of a fraud to prove.  The following are examples which have been used to prove an intent to deceive:

Admissions
Alteration of documents
Concealment of evidence
Confessions
Destruction of evidence
False statements (lies)
Obstruction of justice
Pattern of conduct (repetition of behavior)
Personal gain
Testimony of a co-conspirator

Did he brag about the money his was making on a public place that keeps records IE. Twitter

He made a false statement to paypal about his age, otherwise he wouldn't be able to do any of this

I'm not sure yet how much money "TheBitMan" made but he was selling BTC for $7-10 when the price was ~$5. so that would be personal gain

[RandomQ]

What Does it Mean when Somebody Commits a Fraud or Misrepresentation in Creating the Contract?

In general, a party engages in fraud when he or she misrepresents a material fact to induce another party to act or refrain from acting towards formation of a contract.  Persons charging other with fraud must prove that the person making the representation knew or should have known that it was false, that he or she intended for the other party to rely on it, and that the party did in fact rely on it, resulting in damages.

If i had known that he lied about his age to get a paypal account, I would not have done any business with him.

I knew that you had to be over 18 to have a paypal account, therefor he misrepresented himself as being over 18 to anyone he did business with.

[BCB]

ETA: Hrm. After talking with someone else... I take back everything I've read in this thread, assuming the BitMan is not a minor. If BitMan is a minor, I'd be willing to go splitsies on a notarized, co-signed, secured loan to him.

Kluge,

Have you been following this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83679.0

A number or Board Members have been bending over backwards to help this "kid" (if he is indeed under 18) out.  Two lenders passed on a loan with very favorable terms because the TheBitMan would not agree to some of their verification terms.  It was only after serious talk of a small claims that he has even agreed to make any payment.  And still no one has yet to see any funds back.

Waiting....