Where are those Bitshares' Shills?

[HalFinneysBrain]

Actually at 33% drop the deal is unwound (automatically margin called) and you get your dollar's worth at that point.

what does this mean? do you incorporate a fiat exchange?

or does this mean i get bts worth of usd at 33% (if bts goes even lower so do my new bts)?

It means you get BTS worth a dollar at that time.  It could then go up or down.

[HalFinneysBrain]

this only works as BTS does'nt loose more than 50% of its value, right?

It works as long as BTS doesn't lose 50% of its value *instantly*, and then not recover afterwards.

If the price has a flash crash, tanking to nothing and then bouncing most of the way back up again, due to a bug/bad trade on exchange/whatever, then things are fine, because the price feeds dont update that quickly. 


If the price declines a lot, but over a reasonable period of time, then positions get unwound by margin calls, but asset holders get their correct value back.  (This has occurred over the past several months).


Only if the price instantly drops a huge amount and then stays down do things break.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

Let me spell it out for you mental midgets who support this scam.  The average user is going to get unnecessarily stopped out by market volatility causing them to lose money.  They will end up holding BTS and not "bitUSD".  Unless the "asset" is fully redeemable, IT IS UNETHICAL TO CLAIM THEY ARE JUST AS GOOD AS THE REAL ASSET.  Those of you who continue to advocate and market this ridiculous scheme are fleecing people who do not know any better and causing them to unnecessarily lose money.  When your "assets" can be force liquidated, IT IS NOT "SAFER THAN A SWISS BANK ACCOUNT"!

[brekyrself]

Let me spell it out for you mental midgets who support this scam.  The average user is going to get unnecessarily stopped out by market volatility causing them to lose money.  They will end up holding BTS and not "bitUSD".  Unless the "asset" is fully redeemable, IT IS UNETHICAL TO CLAIM THEY ARE JUST AS GOOD AS THE REAL ASSET.  Those of you who continue to advocate and market this ridiculous scheme are fleecing people who do not know any better and causing them to unnecessarily lose money.  When your "assets" can be force liquidated, IT IS NOT "SAFER THAN A SWISS BANK ACCOUNT"!

If there was a gateway (on/off ramp) that would redeem any of the assets 1/1 buy or sell would this solve the issue?

[DecentralizeEconomics]

Let me spell it out for you mental midgets who support this scam.  The average user is going to get unnecessarily stopped out by market volatility causing them to lose money.  They will end up holding BTS and not "bitUSD".  Unless the "asset" is fully redeemable, IT IS UNETHICAL TO CLAIM THEY ARE JUST AS GOOD AS THE REAL ASSET.  Those of you who continue to advocate and market this ridiculous scheme are fleecing people who do not know any better and causing them to unnecessarily lose money.  When your "assets" can be force liquidated, IT IS NOT "SAFER THAN A SWISS BANK ACCOUNT"!

If there was a gateway (on/off ramp) that would redeem any of the assets 1/1 buy or sell would this solve the issue?

Unless the "asset" is fully redeemable, IT IS UNETHICAL TO CLAIM THEY ARE JUST AS GOOD AS THE REAL ASSET.

The "asset" must be fully redeemable.  No convertibility = No parity.

I've heard about these "gateways" aka "on/off ramps".  The problem with them is they don't guarantee redeemability.  When the "bitassets" blow up, which they will, they have no legal obligation to make "bitAsset" holders whole.  Also, what type of an complete moron would accept non-redeemable, fake "bitAssets" in exchange for the real, physical asset?  Sure they might make a 1% commission on each trade, but they would have to be completely out of their mind to hold a positive amount of "bitAssets".  You can be sure that any BTS "gateway" is going to hold a negative amount of "bitAssets".

[testz]

Welcome back DE, looks like you was in vacation. 
Lot of work ahead, be ready for new communist fork - Ethereum.

[Zer0Sum]

The "asset" must be fully redeemable.  No convertibility = No parity.

I've heard about these "gateways" aka "on/off ramps".  The problem with them is they don't guarantee redeemability.  When the "bitassets" blow up, which they will, they have no legal obligation to make "bitAsset" holders whole.  Also, what type of an complete moron would accept non-redeemable, fake "bitAssets" in exchange for the real, physical asset?  Sure they might make a 1% commission on each trade, but they would have to be completely out of their mind to hold a positive amount of "bitAssets".  You can be sure that any BTS "gateway" is going to hold a negative amount of "bitAssets".

Also, the "no counterparty risk" is complete bullshit...
The BTS Devs = Larimers are your high risk counterparty since they control the BTS currency.

This is all a waste of time...
Because Wall Street will make this kind of BTS nonsense obsolete within 6 months...
You already got the GBTC in the Pink Sheets...
And with the Winklevoss ETF you will have hedging, shorting and options on BTC from your brokerage account.

[chryspano]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixgc_FGam3s

[brekyrself]

Let me spell it out for you mental midgets who support this scam.  The average user is going to get unnecessarily stopped out by market volatility causing them to lose money.  They will end up holding BTS and not "bitUSD".  Unless the "asset" is fully redeemable, IT IS UNETHICAL TO CLAIM THEY ARE JUST AS GOOD AS THE REAL ASSET.  Those of you who continue to advocate and market this ridiculous scheme are fleecing people who do not know any better and causing them to unnecessarily lose money.  When your "assets" can be force liquidated, IT IS NOT "SAFER THAN A SWISS BANK ACCOUNT"!

If there was a gateway (on/off ramp) that would redeem any of the assets 1/1 buy or sell would this solve the issue?

Unless the "asset" is fully redeemable, IT IS UNETHICAL TO CLAIM THEY ARE JUST AS GOOD AS THE REAL ASSET.

The "asset" must be fully redeemable.  No convertibility = No parity.

I've heard about these "gateways" aka "on/off ramps".  The problem with them is they don't guarantee redeemability.  When the "bitassets" blow up, which they will, they have no legal obligation to make "bitAsset" holders whole.  Also, what type of an complete moron would accept non-redeemable, fake "bitAssets" in exchange for the real, physical asset?  Sure they might make a 1% commission on each trade, but they would have to be completely out of their mind to hold a positive amount of "bitAssets".  You can be sure that any BTS "gateway" is going to hold a negative amount of "bitAssets".

http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/22/Use-Gold-and-Silver-with-BitShares-to-bypass-Fiat-Regulations/

Precious metal businesses are already setup for this kind of transaction and could make money off the spread of the metal's themselves and the commission on each trade.  This provides a new type of customer thus another revenue stream.

[StanLarimer]

My friend and I were walking along a sidewalk when I spotted a $20 bill lying in our path.

As I picked it up he warned, "Don't bother with that, it's not Fully Redeemable for a $20 Gold Coin any more!"

I stuffed the bill in my pocket.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

My friend and I were walking along a sidewalk when I spotted a $20 bill lying in our path.

As I picked it up he warned, "Don't bother with that, it's not Fully Redeemable for a $20 Gold Coin any more!"

I stuffed the bill in my pocket.

Lol.  What a pathetic analogy.  The difference between USD and bitUSD is that USD is a fiat currency (backed by government mandate) and bitUSD is a derivatives contract that isn't backed by anything.  Regardless of what the Bitshares Foundation says, just because bitUSD can be sold for BTS and BTS for BTC and BTC for USD, it doesn't make bitUSD backed by USD.  Stop trying to led people to believe that bitUSD is just as good as USD and that it's "Safer than a Swiss bank account!".  Even with "Gateways", the entire bitAsset float isn't (and never will be) fully redeemable.

This analogy which misrepresents the truth is a perfect example of why so many people oppose Bitshares.  Bitshares purpose isn't to help people escape monetary policies which are detrimental to their well-being.  Instead, you are putting people at greater risk of financial loss by trying to convince them to trade their real assets for derivative contracts.

[testz]

My friend and I were walking along a sidewalk when I spotted a $20 bill lying in our path.

As I picked it up he warned, "Don't bother with that, it's not Fully Redeemable for a $20 Gold Coin any more!"

I stuffed the bill in my pocket.

Lol.  What a pathetic analogy.  The difference between USD and bitUSD is that USD is a fiat currency (backed by government mandate) and bitUSD is a derivatives contract that isn't backed by anything.  Regardless of what the Bitshares Foundation says, just because bitUSD can be sold for BTS and BTS for BTC and BTC for USD, it doesn't make bitUSD backed by USD.  Stop trying to led people to believe that bitUSD is just as good as USD and that it's "Safer than a Swiss bank account!".  Even with "Gateways", the entire bitAsset float isn't (and never will be) fully redeemable.

This analogy which misrepresents the truth is a perfect example of why so many people oppose Bitshares.  Bitshares purpose isn't to help people escape monetary policies which are detrimental to their well-being.  Instead, you are putting people at greater risk of financial loss by trying to convince them to trade their real assets for derivative contracts.

Do you want to discuss this again?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=989629.msg10804487#msg10804487

[StanLarimer]

The ELI5 point of my profoundly sophisticated analogy is that the market sets the price of everything.

A paper $20 bill still has value based on what I can get in exchange for it - despite what I may think of what is "backing" it.

All the pros and cons, benefits and risks, of any financial asset are rolled up into its instantaneous market price.

So, no matter whether people like you think it should be less or people like me think it should be more, neither side is statistically willing, by definition, to take less or pay more than the current market price.

Inside the BitShares market we have set the trading rules (engineered the incentives) so that natural market forces provide feedback to drive the value of bitAssets toward their pegs and provide sufficient collateral to hold them there over a very wide range of price movements in the underlying BTS asset.

BitShares is a suite of well-defined financial products, documented and enforced by open source software, which the market will continue to price based on a balance their perceived risks and rewards.

...regardless of what emotions any one of us may feel about it.