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Author Topic: Please explain why this doesn't exist yet (alternative to sidechains)  (Read 893 times)
hack_ (OP)
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March 14, 2015, 08:00:53 PM
 #1

I have been reading on the btc source code and also saw early iterations of colored coins and i had this idea

Why not a single blockchain, for say maybe 10 tokens? Each with it's own individual characteristics, but all using the same chain?

For example, say we have a PoS codebase with 6 tokens  ( these can be arbitrary)

                   DRK
                 /
       Novacoin
      /          \
COIN             DOGE
      \           /
       Litecoin
                  \
                   someshitcoin

COIN & NVC & someshitcoin all use PoS but with different parameters
COIN & someshitcoin & DOGE have perpertual PoW
DRK & someshitcoin allow Masternodes and darksend
Litecoin & NVC have diffrent tx fees fro the rest

eg etc and so forth and so on

PoW blocks awad Pow rewards where applicable, each has it's own reward

PoS blocks only pay tx fees in the relevant currency and only contain relevant txs

Likely the only thing that will be constant is the PoW block time across all tokens.


How come people chose colored coins, ie marking outputs of the same token with different tags instead of creating a multi- token system?  Are there any technical difficulties i am unaware of?

we can even scratch out the PoS and just let it all be PoW would this system be possible, practical and/or secure? Because if the token all exist on one chain, swapping between them would become easier, no?

Such a system can be implemented by the less popular coins/communities to pool resources and maybe foster better dev cooperation.Most blockchains are really small in size so this would not be a problem.
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March 14, 2015, 11:01:55 PM
 #2

Worst idea ever, just like Sidechains idea you have a "single break point" area. Just imagine the Internet would be build like that ?
If just one point fails everything fails.

This is why everyone need to have their own blockchain and all needed services to work on its own

Your argument is flawed IMO.

The internet is a very different thing from a digital currency. These currencies are simply a application/protocol written atop the basic infrastructure of the internet. I could pose a counter question, what if there was an internet for google chrome, then a separate one for Firefox? What they are is applications, and in some cases we must minimize unnecessary duplication. While i have questions about the above implementation, i think that overally, it is a very pertinent question.

We do not ALL need a different blockchain, in fact 80% of the coins in active circulation and listed on exchanges would greatly benefit from merging into groups of chains.

90% of altcoins are just a clone with nothing new, or very little of consequence. In those up to 99% just duplicate code. we then split up a lot of power among a thousand of those to keep the chains moving, whereas we could group together and use the same infrastructure and each conduct our business as we wish.

All my numbers are just guesstimates btw.


Quote
"single break point"

Please explain the single break point in a decentralized currency?

I have been reading on the btc source code and also saw early iterations of colored coins and i had this idea

Why not a single blockchain, for say maybe 10 tokens? Each with it's own individual characteristics, but all using the same chain?

For example, say we have a PoS codebase with 6 tokens  ( these can be arbitrary)

                   DRK
                 /
       Novacoin
      /          \
COIN             DOGE
      \           /
       Litecoin
                  \
                   someshitcoin

COIN & NVC & someshitcoin all use PoS but with different parameters
COIN & someshitcoin & DOGE have perpertual PoW
DRK & someshitcoin allow Masternodes and darksend
Litecoin & NVC have diffrent tx fees fro the rest

eg etc and so forth and so on

PoW blocks awad Pow rewards where applicable, each has it's own reward

PoS blocks only pay tx fees in the relevant currency and only contain relevant txs

Likely the only thing that will be constant is the PoW block time across all tokens.


How come people chose colored coins, ie marking outputs of the same token with different tags instead of creating a multi- token system?  Are there any technical difficulties i am unaware of?

we can even scratch out the PoS and just let it all be PoW would this system be possible, practical and/or secure? Because if the token all exist on one chain, swapping between them would become easier, no?

Such a system can be implemented by the less popular coins/communities to pool resources and maybe foster better dev cooperation.Most blockchains are really small in size so this would not be a problem.

I find your idea interesting, though likely it will only really work in a PoW only environment.

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March 14, 2015, 11:43:02 PM
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The internet is a very different thing from a digital currency

How it is different ? can you shutoff the Internet just by pull a plug ? Even if you kill all ISPs people still could use other links to interconnect with the internet.

If you have only "ONE" blockchain means if there is a fork or error, attack, DDOS you name it. Then its gone ! Centralization everywhere, its pathetic to see that people still think central points are way better then 1 Million small ones.

A redundant system is a must to a secure environment, don't matter where it is a computer or something else.

The illusion that "ONE" big thing can't be taken out easily, because well " To big to fail" is just a broken mindset.

Quote
90% of altcoins are just a clone with nothing new

Then bitcoin is also just a "Altcoin" because the idea to use Cryptography as a currency is a old one Ripple was first and even before Ripple there were different ones.
Same old cheerleaders jumping to every Bitcoin announcement but when its failing they are quiet.

Your arguments are completely off the rails. I don't think you read the OP's post properly nor my reply.

Quote
If you have only "ONE" blockchain means if there is a fork or error, attack, DDOS you name it. Then its gone ! Centralization everywhere, its pathetic to see that people still think central points are way better then 1 Million small ones.

You have no idea what decentralized crypto-currency is if you believe your answer is valid.

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If you have only "ONE" blockchain means if there is a fork or error, attack, DDOS you name it.

You sir have no idea what you are talking about. First of all there is no where where it says all blockchains must merge into one.

Secondly, you know very little about Ddos if you are going to invoke it in this manner especially with regard to a bitcoin based crypto-currency.   Please go study how it works, then you'll see how horribly flawed your logic is.

Quote
A redundant system is a must to a secure environment, don't matter where it is a computer or something else.

My goodness, your lack of actual understanding of these systems is astounding! Hint: if one copy of the blockchain survives a nuclear war, ice-age and alien invasiosn...we can just pick up where we left off. How's that for redundancy? The decentralized open ledger which you call a blockchain is in itself redundant.

The illusion that "ONE" big thing can't be taken out easily, because well " To big to fail" is just a broken mindset.

Oh...where is this mentioned pray tell?


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Then bitcoin is also just a "Altcoin" because the idea to use Cryptography as a currency is a old one Ripple was first and even before Ripple there were different ones.
Same old cheerleaders jumping to every Bitcoin announcement but when its failing they are quiet.

Huh??

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March 14, 2015, 11:44:50 PM
 #4

Op say something  Cheesy


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March 15, 2015, 12:00:48 AM
 #5

It looks like you have no idea what Centralization and decentralization is. This is common as Ripple people tend to twist arguments like you do.
You should know Computer have lots in common with Physics and you lack some very badly.



Thing is you can't even follow one point i did, because you didn't used your brain yet.

Why do you think we have so many problems with exchanges lately ? Look they are all Centralized.. oh i see you are one of those who says its impossible.
Do you even understand what the word "decentral" is ? Means you can take one thing offline and it still works, also called redundancy.

If you try the argument twist game or play stupid with me.. then you will lose trust me on that.




Do you even understand what the word "decentral" is ? Means you can take one thing offline and it still works, also called redundancy.

Decentralization, means there is no definable center, please define the center of the above mentioned model?

Use your diagram to show the center of bitcoin, because if you can prove the center of bitcoin, then you have a case.

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March 15, 2015, 12:13:36 AM
 #6

You clearly don't understand what decentral is.. same problem with Ripple cheerleaders.

Quote
Use your diagram to show the center of bitcoin, because if you can prove the center of bitcoin, then you have a case.

Decentralization means there is "NO" Center everyone can talk with each other with no help from anyone.
If one link is closed he can still use the other one.

this one looks a bit better which explain what i mean.



So....how is a bitcoin based crypto currency not decentralized? His example is clearly based on bitcoin protocol, so if bitcoin is decentralized...how is his not centralized?

You just contradicted all your arguments.

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March 15, 2015, 12:42:35 AM
 #7

You clearly don't understand what decentral is.. same problem with Ripple cheerleaders.

Quote
Use your diagram to show the center of bitcoin, because if you can prove the center of bitcoin, then you have a case.

Decentralization means there is "NO" Center everyone can talk with each other with no help from anyone.
If one link is closed he can still use the other one.

this one looks a bit better which explain what i mean.



So....how is a bitcoin based crypto currency not decentralized? His example is clearly based on bitcoin protocol, so if bitcoin is decentralized...how is his not centralized?

OP's isn't because he is useing ONE blockchain do you get it ONE !!!!!!!

MEANS THIS IS A CENTRAL POINT.
Damn how hard can this be to understand.

Like i said before.. you think a high mining Hashrate of your Blockchain will save you from forks or codeing errors ? I doubt that.

Quote
You just contradicted all your arguments.

Because you don't read any of mine and hope you can convince me with your shittalk.


What are you talking about? So it's bitcoin based..but it's not decentralized because instead of having one token , it has 10? I' done answering you i thought you'd see what's wrong with your own statements if i dumb it down but no shit, you can't even see it.

Is it Bitcoin based? YES
Is bitcoin decentralized? YES

So it follows that it too is decentralized because it is just Bitcoin, with multiple tokens and different rules for each token.

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March 15, 2015, 12:54:58 AM
Last edit: March 15, 2015, 01:05:45 AM by BitcoinHeroes
 #8

Sent you information on our development, let me know if you would like to discuss your ideas privately.

For anyone else that is seeing this and would like to get involved please private message us here on Bitcointalk.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=981209.0

https://rdnpay.com:3000/transactions


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