Let me know if I am getting this right.

[Tori_Stanwood]

I hope you guys here have mot gotten completely tired of me yet.
My deal is that I will soon have an income stream that I cannot take in cash. So I am under a tight schedule to learn as much here as I can so when this begins I am ready.
I have been asking a lot about buying bitcoin without KYC/AML (New Phrase To Me) concerns. I want to relay a little of what I think I have learned and see if you guys can confirm my thinking here.

My wanting to pull in bitcion anonymously and maintain that so I can move it around using mixers or a wallet like "Rush Wallet" or "Dark Wallet" is not going to work. What I need to do is put the cash into Bitcoin and the next move is to move it into another crypto such as Monero, Darkcoin, Ripple, Litecoin or whatever. Doing this will break the blockchain connected to Bitcoin thus the trace to me is lost. I can then rebuy some bitcoin with a clean blockchain and without any worries be able to sell the bitcoin somewhere like  LocalBitcoins-com without a concern of it coming back to me and the person that I sell my coin to is safe and getting clean coin. Using mixers or wallet from what I am finding WILL NOT IN ANY WAY MAKE THE COIN CLEANER AND UNTRACEABLE. It is only when I break the blockchain by moving to another crypto that I am really getting rid of the blockchain and any way the chain of custody from the sender to me is broken.

I need you all to confirm this for me or correct my thinking if I am wrong.

And so far thank you all for answer my questions and teaching me here.

[jonnybravo0311]

I would think that sending any BTC you've purchased to an exchange, trading for some other crypto, then going to another exchange and trading it back to BTC would solve your problem.  For example, go to cryptsy, trade your BTC for LTC, then go to bit-x.com (the exchange in my signature) and trade LTC for BTC.

Even using this method, somebody motivated enough could probably trace your transactions through the multiple blockchains... but your own presence on the BTC blockchain would be broken once you transferred the BTC to the other currency at the exchange, since that exchange would now have custody of your BTC.

[CoinCidental]

I hope you guys here have mot gotten completely tired of me yet.
My deal is that I will soon have an income stream that I cannot take in cash. So I am under a tight schedule to learn as much here as I can so when this begins I am ready.
I have been asking a lot about buying bitcoin without KYC/AML (New Phrase To Me) concerns. I want to relay a little of what I think I have learned and see if you guys can confirm my thinking here.

My wanting to pull in bitcion anonymously and maintain that so I can move it around using mixers or a wallet like "Rush Wallet" or "Dark Wallet" is not going to work. What I need to do is put the cash into Bitcoin and the next move is to move it into another crypto such as Monero, Darkcoin, Ripple, Litecoin or whatever. Doing this will break the blockchain connected to Bitcoin thus the trace to me is lost. I can then rebuy some bitcoin with a clean blockchain and without any worries be able to sell the bitcoin somewhere like  LocalBitcoins-com without a concern of it coming back to me and the person that I sell my coin to is safe and getting clean coin. Using mixers or wallet from what I am finding WILL NOT IN ANY WAY MAKE THE COIN CLEANER AND UNTRACEABLE. It is only when I break the blockchain by moving to another crypto that I am really getting rid of the blockchain and any way the chain of custody from the sender to me is broken.

I need you all to confirm this for me or correct my thinking if I am wrong.

And so far thank you all for answer my questions and teaching me here.

the thing i dont like about anonymous mixers is you have to trust someone anonymous with your money ,also the fact that anyone  else  using an anonymous mixer is probably doing something equally
or maybe even more illegal than whatever your doing

for example ,you maybe just avoiding tax or  selling a class C drug and then you mix your proceeds in with someone else whos done something worse like maybe selling child porn or class A drugs etc  .....so the coins you get back may also be "dirty money"

there are probably some legal reasons why someone might want to risk total loss using an anonymous mixer but none that i  would believe myself  or like to have to explain to a judge if the situation arose

[Master Jedi]

I don't know what level of untraceability you want, if you're going with that technique make sure you use exchanges in different jurisdictions, don't use USA exchanges, use Chinese exchanges, BTC-e, and mix your bitcoin before sending it to the first exchange even if it's with sharedcoin, and probably a good idea doing so again when you get bitcoin back in the second exchange.

[ikydesu]

Check out on my signature, i dont know how far you want to be an anonym and untraceability, but the best advice is use wallet sent to exchanger, and then sent to another exchanger, then use mixer. The risk is you must pay much fees.


~iki

[shogdite]

Check out on my signature, i dont know how far you want to be an anonym and untraceability, but the best advice is use wallet sent to exchanger, and then sent to another exchanger, then use mixer. The risk is you must pay much fees.


~iki

Wouldn't recommend using clearnet mixing services if you want to remain anonymous, the only mixing service I'd 'trust' would be bitcoinfog, even then I only mix small amounts at a time in case the site get taken down or hacked etc

@OP sending your btc through several exchanges should help, exchanging them through some alts should also help obscure traceability.

[Tori_Stanwood]

I deal with information gathering, not drugs or porn or anything like that. Like right now I was requested to locate some info that is worth a few thousand $. After several weeks I got the info needed. Now we have negotiated a price but I am putting off the final transfer of $ and info so I can work a way to get the funds so they don't know who they are sending it to or where the funds were sent after I got them. But I will need it turned into cash pretty fast. I don't mind losing 10% or a little more because I have fireguard it all together. My thing is I cannot be traced after I take the funds and I cannot be traced because it is rather dangerous. Being an information broker for years I had an issue come up when dealing with dollars just before Thanksgiving and I was shot and decided then I would find a better and safer way.

So I laid it out to give you a sense of my urgency in this. I have to be safe.

[CoinCidental]

I deal with information gathering, not drugs or porn or anything like that. Like right now I was requested to locate some info that is worth a few thousand $. After several weeks I got the info needed. Now we have negotiated a price but I am putting off the final transfer of $ and info so I can work a way to get the funds so they don't know who they are sending it to or where the funds were sent after I got them. But I will need it turned into cash pretty fast. I don't mind losing 10% or a little more because I have fireguard it all together. My thing is I cannot be traced after I take the funds and I cannot be traced because it is rather dangerous. Being an information broker for years I had an issue come up when dealing with dollars just before Thanksgiving and I was shot and decided then I would find a better and safer way.

So I laid it out to give you a sense of my urgency in this. I have to be safe.

http://thehackernews.com/2015/02/cryptoware-ramsomware-bitcoin.html

Keep up the good work lol !   

[Tori_Stanwood]

lol
I said a few thousand , not a few hundred.

[CoinCidental]

lol
I said a few thousand , not a few hundred.

theres a lot of police stations in the world,we could be talking millions by the time youre finished  lol

[Master Jedi]

I deal with information gathering, not drugs or porn or anything like that. Like right now I was requested to locate some info that is worth a few thousand $. After several weeks I got the info needed. Now we have negotiated a price but I am putting off the final transfer of $ and info so I can work a way to get the funds so they don't know who they are sending it to or where the funds were sent after I got them. But I will need it turned into cash pretty fast. I don't mind losing 10% or a little more because I have fireguard it all together. My thing is I cannot be traced after I take the funds and I cannot be traced because it is rather dangerous. Being an information broker for years I had an issue come up when dealing with dollars just before Thanksgiving and I was shot and decided then I would find a better and safer way.

So I laid it out to give you a sense of my urgency in this. I have to be safe.

In this case, just use SharedCoin, and then you can sell your coins anywhere.

Even if you don't mix the coins people cannot discover who you are looking at transaction record.

You only need "advanced" obfuscation techniques if you wanna keep it from law enforcement, not any law enforcement, like FBI or more technologically advanced police.

[Tori_Stanwood]

I am reading up on Sharedcoin now. Anyone have any good links? If I were making millions then I would think there would be no way to move that around. I would have to hire some people to do that. I would love to find a good method then make some worthwhile donations.

[Master Jedi]

I am reading up on Sharedcoin now. Anyone have any good links? If I were making millions then I would think there would be no way to move that around. I would have to hire some people to do that. I would love to find a good method then make some worthwhile donations.

It's really simple, you login at blockchain.info, at Sending Money choose SharedCoin, send, and it's done.

[jeffhuys]

Use the "Tails" OS. It's an OS completely shielded by Tor. Everything you do on there is anonymous. Of course, you shouldnt for instance log in to your facebook with that machine, or use any accounts on the internet that already existed. You're a completely new person on there.

You could use that to be completely anonymous.

[Tori_Stanwood]

I normally use TOR when doing much of anything. So why not just use TOR.

[odolvlobo]

What I need to do is put the cash into Bitcoin and the next move is to move it into another crypto such as Monero, Darkcoin, Ripple, Litecoin or whatever. Doing this will break the blockchain connected to Bitcoin thus the trace to me is lost. I can then rebuy some bitcoin with a clean blockchain and without any worries be able to sell the bitcoin somewhere like  LocalBitcoins-com without a concern of it coming back to me and the person that I sell my coin to is safe and getting clean coin. Using mixers or wallet from what I am finding WILL NOT IN ANY WAY MAKE THE COIN CLEANER AND UNTRACEABLE. It is only when I break the blockchain by moving to another crypto that I am really getting rid of the blockchain and any way the chain of custody from the sender to me is broken.

Your plan is needlessly complicated. The purpose of a mixer is to give you new coins that are not connected to your old coins in any way. You don't have to switch currencies to "break the blockchain". A good mixer should be sufficient.

Even just depositing and withdrawing coins at an exchange can also be sufficient because it works just like a mixer: the coins you withdraw are not connected (in any meaningful way) to the coins you deposit because they come from a wallet shared by all customers. For example, if you send your coins to localbitcoins and then sell them, the buyer will get coins that are not connected to your original coins.

The drawback to using mixers and exchanges is that they keep records of your transactions, effectively maintaining the trail, though not in the block chain. Please note that simply switching currencies does not help because these transactions are also recorded.

The only way I know to break the chain completely is to switch to an anonymous currency, such as Darkcoin, which has anonymous mixing built in.

I normally use TOR when doing much of anything. So why not just use TOR.

TOR has no effect on how transactions are recorded in the block chain. It prevents sites you are connected to from knowing your IP.

I am reading up on Sharedcoin now. Anyone have any good links? If I were making millions then I would think there would be no way to move that around. I would have to hire some people to do that. I would love to find a good method then make some worthwhile donations.

It's really simple, you login at blockchain.info, at Sending Money choose SharedCoin, send, and it's done.

Blockchain.info's shared coin is not completely anonymous because it is susceptible to statistical analysis.

[champbronc2]

Well, whatever you're trying to do to destroy blockchain evidence probably isn't your biggest worry. Nobody gets caught through that. Anyhow, your logic is technically sound.

[DannyHamilton]

- snip -
I need you all to confirm this for me or correct my thinking if I am wrong.
- snip -

As an information broker, you must be aware that true anonymity is difficult.  Whether you are able to prevent someone from tracing the payment to you depends on who you are hiding from, what resources they have access to, and how motivated they are to find you.

What I need to do is put the cash into Bitcoin

Bitcoin isn't a container.  You don't put cash into it.  It is a currency.  So if you have local currency, and you want bitcoins, you can exchange your local currency for bitcoins (just like you might exchange local currency for dollars, or euros, or yen).

and the next move is to move it into another crypto such as Monero, Darkcoin, Ripple, Litecoin or whatever.

Again, you aren't "moving" cash from one container to another, you are exchanging currencies.  You could exchange bitcoins for some other currency (such as "Monero, Darkcoin, Ripple, Litecoin or whatever"), but how can you be certain that the exchange that you are using (or the person that you are exchanging with) won't reveal your identity to someone when they are asked? Even if they don't have your identity, they'll know what transactionID you used to send them the bitcoins, and they'll be able to identify the transaction that they used to send you the alternate crypto currency.  The entity attempting to track you may then be able to trace your transactions through the alternative crypto currency.

Doing this will break the blockchain connected to Bitcoin thus the trace to me is lost. I can then rebuy some bitcoin

If the entity attempting to identify you is able to determine who you sent the original bitcoins to and can convince them to give up the necessary information about the alternate crypto currency that you acquired, then they may be able to determine who you eventually sent the alternate crypto currency to and convince them to give up the necessary information to identify the new bitcoins that you acquired.

with a clean blockchain and without any worries be able to sell the bitcoin somewhere like  LocalBitcoins-com without a concern of it coming back to me and the person that I sell my coin to is safe and getting clean coin. Using mixers or wallet from what I am finding WILL NOT IN ANY WAY MAKE THE COIN CLEANER AND UNTRACEABLE. It is only when I break the blockchain by moving to another crypto that I am really getting rid of the blockchain and any way the chain of custody from the sender to me is broken.

As I said, it really depends on how many resources the entity that is trying to identify you is willing to put into that effort.  Will they have subpena powers?  Will they be able/willing to threaten the lives of people that you interact with along the way?  Will they have access to extensive computing power and forensic accounting processes?

Additionally, the more transactions that you complete this way, the more financial and informational crumbs you are likely to leave behind for them to follow. It might even be possible for the entity that you are trying to hide from to set up their own crypto exchange so that when you are exchanging bitcoins for alternate crypto (or alternate crypto for bitcoin) you are unknowingly interacting directly with the entity that you are trying to hide from.

[Tori_Stanwood]

I am doing this by memory. I cannot pull up the links I have read. This is one link I did find that I am taking some info from. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786544.0   - but I did read somewhere that bitcoins are linked with an "internet like link" and it is designed this way for the purpose of tracking.
And in this link http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/11580/how-untraceable-is-bitcoin on point 3 they say they are traceable, but may not be traceable directly back to me. But could be if enough work and effort is put in.
A few places I have read say the ip address IS directly connected to bitcoin transactions going very far back. One post I saw said that having a verifiable ip connected to any "chain of custody" of bit coin transactions can be and will be tracked back to any certain point in time if there is a need.

An example given to me in a private conversation from someone who has done what I am trying to do said that you should not allow an ip address to be connected to any bitcoin transaction and to run different bitcoin values through different mixers and wallets and he did mention using some bit coin to buy Darkcoin and then move it back to bitcoin varing the amount and times to make it as clean as possible.

[Master Jedi]

I am doing this by memory. I cannot pull up the links I have read. This is one link I did find that I am taking some info from. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786544.0   - but I did read somewhere that bitcoins are linked with an "internet like link" and it is designed this way for the purpose of tracking.
And in this link http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/11580/how-untraceable-is-bitcoin on point 3 they say they are traceable, but may not be traceable directly back to me. But could be if enough work and effort is put in.
A few places I have read say the ip address IS directly connected to bitcoin transactions going very far back. One post I saw said that having a verifiable ip connected to any "chain of custody" of bit coin transactions can be and will be tracked back to any certain point in time if there is a need.

An example given to me in a private conversation from someone who has done what I am trying to do said that you should not allow an ip address to be connected to any bitcoin transaction and to run different bitcoin values through different mixers and wallets and he did mention using some bit coin to buy Darkcoin and then move it back to bitcoin varing the amount and times to make it as clean as possible.

If you're worried with IPs just use a Blockchain.info wallet through TOR, they even have an onion address, https://blockchainbdgpzk.onion .