Is the European Union Dying?

[bigtimespaghetti]

this is the european union we need

You can troll better than that. Come on!

[Agestorzrxx]

Sorry but fuck the EU and their finances. You wanted socialist/marxist bullshit well you got it, in spades. If the French have finally awoken to realize they have been bamboozled then we are indeed late in the game. And it appears they have. The real question is what will become of FUSA? Fuck nationalism, how about localism?

[cryptocoiner]

As the European Coal and Steel Community of Jean Monnet evolved into the EU, we were told a “United States of Europe” was at hand, modeled on the USA. And other countries and continents will inevitably follow Europe’s example.

There will be a North American Union of the U.S., Canada and Mexico, and a Latin America Union of the Mercosur trade partnership.

In an essay, “The E.U. Experiment Has Failed,” Bruce Thornton of Hoover Institution makes the case that the verdict is in, the dream is dead, the EU is unraveling, One Europe is finished.

Consider, first, economics. In 2013, Europe grew by 1 percent compared to the U.S.’s 2.2 percent. In December, unemployment in Europe was 11.4 percent. In the U.S., 5.6 percent. Americans are alarmed by the lowest labor force participation rate since Reagan, 62.7 percent. In Europe, in 2013, it was 57.5 percent.

Europeans may wail over German-imposed “austerity,” but the government share of Europe’s GDP has gone from 45 percent in 2008 to 49 percent today. In Greece, it is 59 percent.

Most critical is the demographic crisis. For a nation to survive, its women must produce on average 2.1 children. Europe has not seen that high a fertility rate in 40 years. Today, it is down to 1.6 children.

Europeans are an aging, shrinking, disappearing, dying race.

And the places of Europe’s unborn are being filled by growing “concentrations of unassimilated and disaffected Muslim immigrants, segregated in neighborhoods like the banlieues of Paris or the satellite ‘dish cities’ of Amsterdam.

“Shut out from labor markets, plied with generous social welfare payments and allowed to cultivate beliefs and cultural practices inimical to democracy, many of these immigrants despise their new homes, and find the religious commitment and certainty of radical Islam an attractive alternative.”

More...https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/03/patrick-j-buchanan/good-riddance-to-bad-rubbish/

Not yet.

[Snail2]

Fuck nationalism, how about localism?

Localism is a really good idea. Paired with a Swiss type direct democracy (what seems to me as a practical implementation of localism itself) that would be the most ideal political system.

[Furio]

Dead before it even started, wait, you can all borrow money at rates that aren't applicable to you state's balance, yet who cares, every citizin will have to pay for every mismaneged country, the whole idea was ridiculous and a farce, look at Scandinavia and UK go, they didn't need the Euro, yet their economy is far better....

[bigtimespaghetti]

Dead before it even started, wait, you can all borrow money at rates that aren't applicable to you state's balance, yet who cares, every citizin will have to pay for every mismaneged country, the whole idea was ridiculous and a farce, look at Scandinavia and UK go, they didn't need the Euro, yet their economy is far better....

I don't know about Scandinavia, but the UK economy is like the least dirty shirt in a pile of laundry. 'Far better' would be too strong a word IMO. It has one of the highest level of consumer (and government) debt in the world. At least the government has some control of it's currency.

[Beliathon]

It's capitalism that's dying, the collapse of the EU is just a symptom.

[bigtimespaghetti]

It's capitalism that's dying, the collapse of the EU is just a symptom.

Evil capitalists using all that free market created by the European Parliment. 

[Furio]

Dead before it even started, wait, you can all borrow money at rates that aren't applicable to you state's balance, yet who cares, every citizin will have to pay for every mismaneged country, the whole idea was ridiculous and a farce, look at Scandinavia and UK go, they didn't need the Euro, yet their economy is far better....

I don't know about Scandinavia, but the UK economy is like the least dirty shirt in a pile of laundry. 'Far better' would be too strong a word IMO. It has one of the highest level of consumer (and government) debt in the world. At least the government has some control of it's currency.

Scandinavia is a very big area my friend, don't know which COUNTRY you referring to, but several countries in Scandinavia do FAR better then most countries in the EU, it's a fact, not really up for debate. Then there's the social programme's, which are far more sophisticated and expensive, yet they still have a better economy....

[bigtimespaghetti]

Dead before it even started, wait, you can all borrow money at rates that aren't applicable to you state's balance, yet who cares, every citizin will have to pay for every mismaneged country, the whole idea was ridiculous and a farce, look at Scandinavia and UK go, they didn't need the Euro, yet their economy is far better....

I don't know about Scandinavia, but the UK economy is like the least dirty shirt in a pile of laundry. 'Far better' would be too strong a word IMO. It has one of the highest level of consumer (and government) debt in the world. At least the government has some control of it's currency.

Scandinavia is a very big area my friend, don't know which COUNTRY you referring to, but several countries in Scandinavia do FAR better then most countries in the EU, it's a fact, not really up for debate. Then there's the social programme's, which are far more sophisticated and expensive, yet they still have a better economy....

When I said I don't know, I meant I have no intimate knowledge of those economies. But I am skeptical of Norway's long term prospects when their oil wells run low.

[medUSA]

I don't know about Scandinavia, but the UK economy is like the least dirty shirt in a pile of laundry. 'Far better' would be too strong a word IMO. It has one of the highest level of consumer (and government) debt in the world.

I would say "far better" is not too strong compared to Greece and Spain. The debt and budget deficit is nothing to be proud of, unemployment fell to 5.8% which is very good by EU standards. We had a close call with the referendum, but that's behind us now.

At least the government has some control of it's currency.

Not giving up the British Pound is the best move ever, sterling is still one of strongest currency in the world.

[bigtimespaghetti]

I don't know about Scandinavia, but the UK economy is like the least dirty shirt in a pile of laundry. 'Far better' would be too strong a word IMO. It has one of the highest level of consumer (and government) debt in the world.

I would say "far better" is not too strong compared to Greece and Spain. The debt and budget deficit is nothing to be proud of, unemployment fell to 5.8% which is very good by EU standards. We had a close call with the referendum, but that's behind us now.

At least the government has some control of it's currency.

Not giving up the British Pound is the best move ever, sterling is still one of strongest currency in the world.

I agree, many people I talk to LOVE the euro because it's convenient. It's crazy. They will readily admit to knowing nothing about economics but  relentlessly defend the euro.

[Snail2]

It's capitalism that's dying, the collapse of the EU is just a symptom.

You see, my political commissar in the army told me the same stuff twenty some years ago. As I see capitalism is still here but our glorious socialism went down the drain. Even the Chinese hard-liners switched to some sort of capitalism. Capitalism most likely will transform over the time to a more sustainable hopefully more localized form but that will be still capitalism, as capitalism is the natural way for economy.

[bigtimespaghetti]

It's capitalism that's dying, the collapse of the EU is just a symptom.

You see, my political commissar in the army told me the same stuff twenty some years ago. As I see capitalism is still here but our glorious socialism went down the drain. Even the Chinese hard-liners switched to some sort of capitalism. Capitalism most likely will transform over the time to a more sustainable hopefully more localized form but that will be still capitalism, as capitalism is the natural way for economy.

Not just that, it is man's natural state. Laws/Rules are of course necessary for a functioning society wether it be cultural, voluntary or compelled. I do not know where capitalism will end up, it's still here in some shattered remnant and continues to to create innovation despite the onslaught against it during the last century.

[Snail2]

Not just that, it is man's natural state. Laws/Rules are of course necessary for a functioning society wether it be cultural, voluntary or compelled. I do not know where capitalism will end up, it's still here in some shattered remnant and continues to to create innovation despite the onslaught against it during the last century.

As you said it's man's natural state. Until today only capitalism been able to give some sort of vision of the future and the feeling of progress. I think (besides the lack of basic maths) the lack of vision of the future was one of the main reasons of the socialist economy.

[BADecker]

The European Union was dead before it started. Just because a bunch of leaders from different countries got together to make and accept something like the European Union, doesn't mean that the people accept it.

People in Europe generally haven't had life quite as easy as those in America. Because of this, they are a bit more aware of the goofy things their politically inclined leaders do.

The people might want things to be better. They might wish and hope that their leaders could do things right. But their experiences all the way back to WWI times show them that their leaders are close to crazy.

If the EU had worked and had showed signs of great improvement in foundational quality of life, the people might have welcomed it. But because of the threats and potential threats caused by the EU, most of the people are against it, and entirely dissatisfied with their leaders.

[Lauda]

Most critical is the demographic crisis. For a nation to survive, its women must produce on average 2.1 children. Europe has not seen that high a fertility rate in 40 years. Today, it is down to 1.6 children.

Europeans are an aging, shrinking, disappearing, dying race.

So because we're not hitting the children quota, we will die out?
Yeah right. Those rates are constantly changing over time, and are useless. Besides, the planet is overpopulated as it is.

This post is useless in my opinion. The EU isn't doing great, that's correct, but who is? The US isn't either. Just because of the recent spike in the value of $ doesn't mean that it will stay that way and that things are well.
The world has yet to recover from the financial situation that it is in.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

The core of the EU is still working well together and prospering.
Germany, France, Holland, Austria, all are doing pretty well economically and lets not forget that several major wars were fought between these countries not long ago, whereas that seems unthinkable at the moment.

The peripherals might start to leave soon in my opinion. Iceland doesn't want to join anymore, the UK will probably leave and Greece, Portugal and Spain all have enough problems with the Euro that they might leave at some point.
I don't think the EU will die, but I think it might shrink back to it's core, much like the roman empire once did without collapsing

The south countries will probably create their own union and currency or something, since they are feed up with being troika slaves.

[Snail2]

So because we're not hitting the children quota, we will die out?
Yeah right. Those rates are constantly changing over time, and are useless. Besides, the planet is overpopulated as it is.

Oh! The overpopulation myth again . That's cute.

[Lauda]

So because we're not hitting the children quota, we will die out?
Yeah right. Those rates are constantly changing over time, and are useless. Besides, the planet is overpopulated as it is.

Oh! The overpopulation myth again . That's cute.

How is it a myth. Once we start lacking resources you will see. The planet can only holds a certain number of people, is it not so?
This seems like a bit off-topic though.
Do you feel like there is or isn't enough people on the planet?