Please no more merchant adoption!!

[neoneros]

http://www.coindesk.com/overstocks-2014-bitcoin-sales-miss-projections-3-million/

Overstock projected $12 million in sales but only had around $3 million in 2014.  Overstock is also regarded as the largest merchant, both by size and volume of sales, accepting BTC.  In comparison, industrial miners are said to be dumping $2 million a day to pay for their electrical and overhead expenses.

So think about it hard.  Overstock only averaged like $9000 a day in BTC sales while miners are dumping $2 million a day.   Yeah OP - I am sure it is those merchants killing BTC and not the high cash mining whores who are milking the blockchain dry..    

So we should be able to pay the electric bill with bitcoin and that will solve the problem. We should focus out attention to the energy market and enforce bitcoin. It would not only keep the $2 mill worth of bitcoin going round in the chain in stead of being dumped for fiat.

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[Honeybooboo]

http://www.coindesk.com/overstocks-2014-bitcoin-sales-miss-projections-3-million/

Overstock projected $12 million in sales but only had around $3 million in 2014.  Overstock is also regarded as the largest merchant, both by size and volume of sales, accepting BTC.  In comparison, industrial miners are said to be dumping $2 million a day to pay for their electrical and overhead expenses.

So think about it hard.  Overstock only averaged like $9000 a day in BTC sales while miners are dumping $2 million a day.   Yeah OP - I am sure it is those merchants killing BTC and not the high cash mining whores who are milking the blockchain dry..    

I've always though this excuse of merchants being bad is absolute bullshit and based on flawed logic. Regardless, for bitcoin to be a success we need constant fiat money flowing in and out and more merchant adoption means more money coming in and out and also meaning more people will get involved once they can spend coins at more places. After all, what good is a currency that you can't spend?

[virtuose247]

for day traders, yes it is a bad thing. But Bitcoin was never formed for greedy short-term investments at first place. It is supposed to behave like a cheaper transactional medium so let it be..

[duckydonald]

It's harming the price. A new merchant comes in then old time bitcoiners start buying stuff.

Joking aside, we need to promote not just merchant adoption but also ways for companies to pay by btc.

The issue with merchant adoption is that fact they dont offer benefits to use bitcoin, so only the people who own bitcoin but,

Say if mcDonalds sells cheese burger for 99 cents each, but if you use bitcoin is 50 cents each.  People that dont know what bitcoin will get curious not only to learn what it is but also to save money.  Another factor is that most of you are greedy bitcoin people looking to make money off of bitcoin instead of making it exchange free without any fees, Why should people adopt to bitcoin if there is no added incentive.  These are the two issues besideds the merchant adoption.

[ChuckBuck]

I'm the opposite view...we need more merchant adoption!!!   

People on the street don't know what the F#ck Bitcoin is man...forget the wild price swings for a moment, and let's focus on getting Bitcoin's "brand" actually recognized.

Basically we need more marketing and advertising, and to do that with need to fill a niche audience first before the mainstream.  And we can't even fill that niche, so let's keep adopting more merchants please!!!!

[futureofbitcoin]

It's harming the price. A new merchant comes in then old time bitcoiners start buying stuff.

Joking aside, we need to promote not just merchant adoption but also ways for companies to pay by btc.

The issue with merchant adoption is that fact they dont offer benefits to use bitcoin, so only the people who own bitcoin but,

Say if mcDonalds sells cheese burger for 99 cents each, but if you use bitcoin is 50 cents each.  People that dont know what bitcoin will get curious not only to learn what it is but also to save money.  Another factor is that most of you are greedy bitcoin people looking to make money off of bitcoin instead of making it exchange free without any fees, Why should people adopt to bitcoin if there is no added incentive.  These are the two issues besideds the merchant adoption.

Why should McDonalds sell a cheeseburger at half price just because you're using bitcoin? I don't even think their profit margin is 50%, so they'll be selling at a loss. Why should they do that? They're there to earn money, not to be altruistic for bitcoin.

Besides, to a person who sees "0.004BTC/cheeseburger" vs "0.008BTC/cheeseburger", do you think there's a difference? When they see the first, they'll go like "hey, that's pretty cheap, let me look up what this bitcoin thing is!" and when they see the second, they'll be like "meh, it's the same price as a normal burger, why bother"?

That's obviously not going to happen, because to the average person, even to people who casually know about bitcoin, they'll have no idea how much 0.004BTC is worth.

[ebliever]

50% is excessive, but since bitcoin does offer some significant benefits to merchants (immediate payment with no chargebacks, counterfeit bills, bounced checks, risk of loss from damaged bills or robbers, armored car deliveries to the bank, etc.), it is reasonable that they could offer something like a 2-5% discount with bitcoin and still come out ahead. This is what is needed to make people want to start accumulating bitcoin for payment purposes.

As it stands I get a 2% rebate on everything I use my main credit card with, 3% for restaurants/gas/hotels with a 2nd card, and 5% for select purchases (changes each quarter) with a 3rd. So it makes no sense for me to use bitcoin, even though the merchants are indirectly paying for those rebates through the fees they pay the credit card companies.

[duckydonald]

It's harming the price. A new merchant comes in then old time bitcoiners start buying stuff.

Joking aside, we need to promote not just merchant adoption but also ways for companies to pay by btc.

The issue with merchant adoption is that fact they dont offer benefits to use bitcoin, so only the people who own bitcoin but,

Say if mcDonalds sells cheese burger for 99 cents each, but if you use bitcoin is 50 cents each.  People that dont know what bitcoin will get curious not only to learn what it is but also to save money.  Another factor is that most of you are greedy bitcoin people looking to make money off of bitcoin instead of making it exchange free without any fees, Why should people adopt to bitcoin if there is no added incentive.  These are the two issues besideds the merchant adoption.

Why should McDonalds sell a cheeseburger at half price just because you're using bitcoin? I don't even think their profit margin is 50%, so they'll be selling at a loss. Why should they do that? They're there to earn money, not to be altruistic for bitcoin.

Besides, to a person who sees "0.004BTC/cheeseburger" vs "0.008BTC/cheeseburger", do you think there's a difference? When they see the first, they'll go like "hey, that's pretty cheap, let me look up what this bitcoin thing is!" and when they see the second, they'll be like "meh, it's the same price as a normal burger, why bother"?

That's obviously not going to happen, because to the average person, even to people who casually know about bitcoin, they'll have no idea how much 0.004BTC is worth.

Im giving a huge example!!!  Im saying if they could.  Im saying it as a point.
I been into selling and giving things out.  Well another thing you can also do is give out free stuff when making a purchase with bitcon.  incentives could help if its good enough.  Im came with an idea for a project Ill be working on and its all about giving incentives if your using bitcoin then rather using fiat.

[futureofbitcoin]

50% is excessive, but since bitcoin does offer some significant benefits to merchants (immediate payment with no chargebacks, counterfeit bills, bounced checks, risk of loss from damaged bills or robbers, armored car deliveries to the bank, etc.), it is reasonable that they could offer something like a 2-5% discount with bitcoin and still come out ahead. This is what is needed to make people want to start accumulating bitcoin for payment purposes.

As it stands I get a 2% rebate on everything I use my main credit card with, 3% for restaurants/gas/hotels with a 2nd card, and 5% for select purchases (changes each quarter) with a 3rd. So it makes no sense for me to use bitcoin, even though the merchants are indirectly paying for those rebates through the fees they pay the credit card companies.

Even with a 2-3% rebate, it makes no sense to use bitcoin. You have to go on an exchange, give out so much personal info AND a picture of yourself on many places, wait, probably pay another 1-2% at least for depositing, trading, then withdrawing. So much work, and you don't much, if at all.

I think we need a fundamentally different system, and have an ecosystem where everyone in the supply/distribution chain accepts bitcoin so that transactions can be made purely in bitcoin, thus avoiding exchanges/exchange fees.


EDIT: @ducky:

My point still stands. Even if you give a discount to bitcoin users, most people wouldn't know about it. You'd have to really advertise it, and even then most people would probably ignore it. It's just not worth the effort for the store, since they're not really invested in bitcoin succeeding.

[duckydonald]

50% is excessive, but since bitcoin does offer some significant benefits to merchants (immediate payment with no chargebacks, counterfeit bills, bounced checks, risk of loss from damaged bills or robbers, armored car deliveries to the bank, etc.), it is reasonable that they could offer something like a 2-5% discount with bitcoin and still come out ahead. This is what is needed to make people want to start accumulating bitcoin for payment purposes.

As it stands I get a 2% rebate on everything I use my main credit card with, 3% for restaurants/gas/hotels with a 2nd card, and 5% for select purchases (changes each quarter) with a 3rd. So it makes no sense for me to use bitcoin, even though the merchants are indirectly paying for those rebates through the fees they pay the credit card companies.

Even with a 2-3% rebate, it makes no sense to use bitcoin. You have to go on an exchange, give out so much personal info AND a picture of yourself on many places, wait, probably pay another 1-2% at least for depositing, trading, then withdrawing. So much work, and you don't much, if at all.

I think we need a fundamentally different system, and have an ecosystem where everyone in the supply/distribution chain accepts bitcoin so that transactions can be made purely in bitcoin, thus avoiding exchanges/exchange fees.

Thats what I also said, the middle men is not good for bitcoin.  Im trying to buy bitcoin but I have to pay this merchant 12 percent, then I have to pay the service, is clearly not viable that I have to pay fees just to get bitcoins.  Right thats where comparison prices come into play, but the issue is getting bitcoin without the middleman

[ebliever]

Thats what I also said, the middle men is not good for bitcoin.  Im trying to buy bitcoin but I have to pay this merchant 12 percent, then I have to pay the service, is clearly not viable that I have to pay fees just to get bitcoins.  Right thats where comparison prices come into play, but the issue is getting bitcoin without the middleman

Uhhh, you guys do know that Coinbase is waiving all fees right now to buy and transfer bitcoin, right? It's not hard to sign up either.

If you are paying more than 1-2% in fees, max, for your bitcoin you are doing it wrong.

[redsn0w]

It's harming the price. A new merchant comes in then old time bitcoiners start buying stuff.

Joking aside, we need to promote not just merchant adoption but also ways for companies to pay by btc.

Again "Money is a means of payment, not speculation". If you are thinking bitcoin only as "speculation" then I think you are wrong, because we need a lot of more merchants (online and physic) that should accept bitcoin (also) as method of payment (due the lowest fee, respect a bank account or credit card).

[fatguyyyyy]

yup, you're 100% right. merchant adoption kills the price because they dump it on the open market ..

[Sheldor333]

No we need more merchant adoption. It can only be a good thing that more people can use it and have access to it, not bad. People spending btc is good, it changes hands and that is what it was made for.

[StevenS]

I've been including the attached fliers in my bill payments the last couple weeks

Online payment processor Stripe.com has recently started accepting Bitcoin. You may want to include stripe.com/bitcoin in your list of processors.

[Baitty]

It's harming the price. A new merchant comes in then old time bitcoiners start buying stuff.

Joking aside, we need to promote not just merchant adoption but also ways for companies to pay by btc.

I thought it was a bit odd a ranked member rubbishing bitcoin

[ebliever]

I've been including the attached fliers in my bill payments the last couple weeks

Online payment processor Stripe.com has recently started accepting Bitcoin. You may want to include stripe.com/bitcoin in your list of processors.

Hmm, they charge 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction? Sounds like a credit card.

[franky1]

i read the OP .. yawn

OP is a FIAT lover and only cares about exiting bitcoin to return to FIAT.

What is wrong with you? I believe in bitcoin. I cant see myself converting my coins to fiat ever. I want it to dominate the world.

Just because I have doubts over the exchange price doesn't mean I am pro-fiat! Also I do believe that merchant adoption needs to be balanced with other things i.e incentives to buy BTC.

I think you may be displeased with how I reacted to some of your so-called incentives for adoption. I think there are much better ways than what you have suggested.

i havnt even bothered to check my post history to see that topic. i left it there for people to think and discuss..

but why care at all about the bitcoin price. i have a large hoard of coins, yet i dont check the bitcoin price and i dont get scared if it drops or rises. so lets put a different spin on it.


you live in the fiat world, im presuming american dollars.
lets imagine you never intend to go to europe so the dollar->euro exchange rate is meaningless in your practical life.
now, would you keep checking the dollar-euro price daily, in worry that the dollar will collapse some day. or do you worry more that not enough shops will take bank notes and prefer other payment methods.

i presume that some time in your life you may get rejected for a credit card and soon find out that you can no longer buy things online without one, limiting your spending habits.

now do you care more about the euro exchange rate or the lack of possibilities you will have to use your dollars.
truly imagine it, you cant pay your bills or TV/internet services due to lack of a card, and every transaction involves cash in hand.

so whats important to you, ease of use and mass ability to spend. or a conversion rate to a currency that you wont touch.

it really doesnt matter if bitcoin is $2 or $20,000. whats more important is the ease of use and availability of use.

[Hazir]

yup, you're 100% right. merchant adoption kills the price because they dump it on the open market ..

You are joking, right? You think that more merchant using bitcoin = bitcoin price decrease? Well think again. It is the other way around. We need to build
bitcoin infrastructure, invest in bitcoin projects, shops look new opportunities. That is why accepting bitcoin by more and more merchants is - yes, it is called development. And it is good for everyone.

[Clegg]

yup, you're 100% right. merchant adoption kills the price because they dump it on the open market ..

You are joking, right? You think that more merchant using bitcoin = bitcoin price decrease? Well think again. It is the other way around. We need to build
bitcoin infrastructure, invest in bitcoin projects, shops look new opportunities. That is why accepting bitcoin by more and more merchants is - yes, it is called development. And it is good for everyone.

Yeah I'm getting tired of reading this ignorant crap. If you seriously believe this then bitcoin is doomed because the more people that use it to buy things the more the price is going to drop so you may as well get out why you can. Bitcoin absolutely needs more adoption for it to grow not the other way around.